In the writer's own words, she did not respond honestly to his advances as she hoped to advance her career through his acquaintance:
> While I tried to politely decline his advances, he was in a position of power over me in this industry. He said he knew my bosses, he knew where I worked, and he promised he’d help advance my career. I felt it best to stay in his “good graces” and not be flat out rude.
She did finally realize her mistake:
> I now understand how wrong this dynamic is.
And responded as she should have first. With the result that he stopped pestering her:
> We haven’t spoken for over a year, as the last time I saw him I finally had the courage and support system to be direct, cold, and tell him to leave me alone.
In my book, the guy's a bit of a thickie and a more than a little creepy. Eww. But she, by her explicit admission, did not let him know his advances were unwanted in a "direct, cold" way because SHE HOPED TO GAIN FINANCIALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY BY DOING SO.
In a nutshell: He clumsily tried to get laid and she strung him along for what she could get out of him.
Eww.
Running book on how long that post stays up before she edits it.
> And responded as she should have first. With the result that he stopped pestering her
She responded correctly at the beginning: she politely declined his advances. He didn't get the point. He didn't stop bothering her. That's not on her, and it's not something we blame her for.
> because SHE HOPED TO GAIN FINANCIALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY BY DOING SO.
You shout the last bit as if you're angry that this woman didn't want to destroy her professional career over putting up with her harasser. That's disgusting. She should never have been put in that situation to begin with.
The fact that she politely declined this man's advances from the beginning should have been the end of it. It is preposterous that you can blame this woman for not being outright aggressive and cold to her harasser when that is an extremely hard thing to do — especially if it involves souring a professional relationship and hurting your career.
She turned him down, and you're saying she didn't turn him down firmly enough, and did so to string him along? Why does that sound like a variation on "she was asking for it, she didn't fight back hard enough" or any other kind of victim-blaming?
You are all kinds of wrong. Unfortunately, I am about to log off, so I do not have time to explain why in any kind of substantive way. The nutshell version is that this is such a rampant problem, women can either try to be polite and diplomatic in the face of it or outright starve. A woman essentially cannot make money at all without putting up with this shit to some degree. We need better answers than always blaming the victim. Some men are so powerful, you essentially cannot avoid them and keep working in your industry. If a man like that sees you as just a piece of ass, even crazy levels of diplomatic skill will not shield you from negative repercussions.
Even if you're right (which I disagree) you need to be way more tactful with this type of thing or you stoke the "programming is misogynist" fire.
Responding more directly:
> "I tried to politely decline"
> she strung him along
It could be interesting to see the exact conversations, but I don't think she "strung him along" as much as just never told him to stop "forcefully enough". Regardless, even if she had been banging the guy, stop means stop. Besides that, she shouldn't have had to decline anything in the first place... This is why you don't ask out women in professional settings: there is no good way for them to say "no".
It sounds like, in this case, she provided good evidence and they were convinced he really harrassed her. Then they handled it really poorly, including notifying him she had talked to them.
So, for starters, err on the side of protecting her and develop good protocols for not disclosing. Reading up on how HIPAA gets handled may help.
Second, when thinking about how to handle it, start with the assumption that bad people will find some way to twist or abuse your rules and cannot be expected to behave just because you have a code of conduct and reminded them of it. If you feel you have real evidence he has harrassed her, come to terms with the fact that excluding him is the only meaningful way to enforce your claimed standard.
In the mean time, up your game on your own behavior. The best antidote is ultimately to set the example of proper behavior.
I have no problem with he said/she said, because I am willing to take a woman at her word when she says "he harassed me".
On the extremely rare occasions I've heard of men complaining of being raped by women, I don't think I've ever heard anyone dismissing his complaint as she said/he said.
It seems like in this case there is relatively objective evidence. I agree this is super tricky, but I don't think it has much to do with "he said she said".
I believe the core issue here is that the bad actor has so much clout he cannot be held accountable by anyone involved. I would expect the problem to generalize to way more than just conferences.
Moral of the story is HR is useless. They are not here to make you feel more comfortable. They are here to make sure nothing bad happens to the company.
Reading this made me really sad. The organization's response was straight up unjust. They should've ejected the male speaker and prevented him from attending the conference at all.
More often than not, organizers don't care enough about doing right and instead do what is expedient because "they don't have the time to investigate or take sides." It's real evil and wrong, but it's fairly common.
If organizers don't step up, crucifying them and perps in the media is another way to go. IANAL but in this instance, the victim may persue criminal sexual harassment charges if statue of limitations have not all expired and a permanent restraining order should be sought to end unwanted attention.
[+] [-] LeHatBad|10 years ago|reply
In the writer's own words, she did not respond honestly to his advances as she hoped to advance her career through his acquaintance:
> While I tried to politely decline his advances, he was in a position of power over me in this industry. He said he knew my bosses, he knew where I worked, and he promised he’d help advance my career. I felt it best to stay in his “good graces” and not be flat out rude.
She did finally realize her mistake:
> I now understand how wrong this dynamic is.
And responded as she should have first. With the result that he stopped pestering her:
> We haven’t spoken for over a year, as the last time I saw him I finally had the courage and support system to be direct, cold, and tell him to leave me alone.
In my book, the guy's a bit of a thickie and a more than a little creepy. Eww. But she, by her explicit admission, did not let him know his advances were unwanted in a "direct, cold" way because SHE HOPED TO GAIN FINANCIALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY BY DOING SO.
In a nutshell: He clumsily tried to get laid and she strung him along for what she could get out of him.
Eww.
Running book on how long that post stays up before she edits it.
[+] [-] interpol_p|10 years ago|reply
She responded correctly at the beginning: she politely declined his advances. He didn't get the point. He didn't stop bothering her. That's not on her, and it's not something we blame her for.
> because SHE HOPED TO GAIN FINANCIALLY AND PROFESSIONALLY BY DOING SO.
You shout the last bit as if you're angry that this woman didn't want to destroy her professional career over putting up with her harasser. That's disgusting. She should never have been put in that situation to begin with.
The fact that she politely declined this man's advances from the beginning should have been the end of it. It is preposterous that you can blame this woman for not being outright aggressive and cold to her harasser when that is an extremely hard thing to do — especially if it involves souring a professional relationship and hurting your career.
[+] [-] Frondo|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] butthackerz|10 years ago|reply
If by "stringing him along" you mean declined every single advance made by him.
"No thanks" should be more than enough.
[+] [-] Mz|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] prolways|10 years ago|reply
Responding more directly:
> "I tried to politely decline"
> she strung him along
It could be interesting to see the exact conversations, but I don't think she "strung him along" as much as just never told him to stop "forcefully enough". Regardless, even if she had been banging the guy, stop means stop. Besides that, she shouldn't have had to decline anything in the first place... This is why you don't ask out women in professional settings: there is no good way for them to say "no".
[+] [-] sunir|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mz|10 years ago|reply
So, for starters, err on the side of protecting her and develop good protocols for not disclosing. Reading up on how HIPAA gets handled may help.
Second, when thinking about how to handle it, start with the assumption that bad people will find some way to twist or abuse your rules and cannot be expected to behave just because you have a code of conduct and reminded them of it. If you feel you have real evidence he has harrassed her, come to terms with the fact that excluding him is the only meaningful way to enforce your claimed standard.
In the mean time, up your game on your own behavior. The best antidote is ultimately to set the example of proper behavior.
[+] [-] Frondo|10 years ago|reply
On the extremely rare occasions I've heard of men complaining of being raped by women, I don't think I've ever heard anyone dismissing his complaint as she said/he said.
[+] [-] prolways|10 years ago|reply
I believe the core issue here is that the bad actor has so much clout he cannot be held accountable by anyone involved. I would expect the problem to generalize to way more than just conferences.
[+] [-] kelukelugames|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway583283|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] kelukelugames|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mkaziz|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bro-stick|10 years ago|reply
If organizers don't step up, crucifying them and perps in the media is another way to go. IANAL but in this instance, the victim may persue criminal sexual harassment charges if statue of limitations have not all expired and a permanent restraining order should be sought to end unwanted attention.
[+] [-] ggchappell|10 years ago|reply