[gavinking]

>> none of the standard Java generic classes are first-class citizens in Ceylon world, because they don't have the reified runtime type information <<

This is just not true. In Ceylon when you import a Java generic class, you can do everything with it that you can do with the same class in Java.

Please stop posting incorrect things about Ceylon. You're coming off as a walking, ranting, personification of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

[pron]

> you can do everything with it that you can do with the same class in Java

Of course! I have not said otherwise. I have said that you can't do with them everything you can do with Ceylon classes, hence -- not first-class citizens.

Now, I would appreciate you stop calling me names, because I haven't called you names. On the other hand, you have not addressed even a single one of the main points I've raised, except come back with great fury against some statements I've made that may not have been clear. So I would also appreciate you taking the time to understand what it is that I'm saying rather than what it is you think I'm saying, because I have not said a single bad thing about Ceylon in this entire thread (on the other hand, I have paid it and you several compliments because it really is a beautiful language), except that I believe a more compromising approach to language design would prove the more pragmatic one in the long term. Please try to understand what it is that I'm saying before blowing a fuse. We are in total agreement (on the facts, at least).

I joined this discussion to sound an observation about different design philosophies in language design (in rare agreement with a comment by Imm), then I commented to a user who asked about the differences between Ceylon and Kotlin (answer: different design goals), and you just keep calling names left and right and think I'm out to spread FUD or that I have an animosity against Ceylon. Jeez. So I will say it -- again -- just so there's no misunderstanding: Ceylon is a terrific programming language, and anyone whose goals are aligned with the language's goals should definitely give it a try!

If you think I have posted something that is incorrect or can be misunderstood, please add your correction politely. Why politely? Because you just might have misinterpreted my intentions or my words, and by being polite you might avoid saying things you may regret. Even if you really think that I'm trying to hurt your language or just so stupid that I keep making the same mistakes over and over, still keep a polite tone, because other readers of the discussion may not have the same interpretation as you.

[incepted]

> On the other hand, you have not addressed even a single one of the main points I've raised, except come back with great fury against some statements I've made that may not have been clear.

And this is why creators of languages should refrain from participating in discussions about the language they created. Especially when they post so much stuff and they seem to be the only person in the 100+ messages defending the language.

Either Ceylon stands on its own merits and other people will come to correct misconceptions about it or... there's simply not enough people who care about it.