I've never been as frustrated with a windows update as this one. First, I've a small machine with SSD that I use as media center running windows 7, this humongous download (which happened overnight without any consent) killed that machine. Since then I've it switched to linux and things are much better.
Second I know an elderly couple who doesn't know much about computers. When they got the prompt for upgrade, they didn't even think it was an operating system upgrade. They thought it was another windows update. Next morning they couldn't do anything as the start button wouldn't work, printers were gone, email settings were gone, critical error message when they click edge etc. Now for a tech savvy person, it wouldn't be a problem and you can easily fix these but they live far from city, like about a good 2 hour drive. Since I'm closest to them, this weekend I'll be making a trip there and fixing it wasting around 6-7 hours of my life just because of windows 10. Thanks Microsoft!
On a related note: with Linux as my daily driver, I don't understand how the average Windows user deals with Microsoft's implementation of automatic updates.
Say I just woke up, and I'm in a rush to boot up my computer, print out a paper, and get out the door. But--surprise! Windows Update ran in the background the night before, and now system startup is delayed half an hour or more to configure a new batch of patches.
On the one hand, from a security standpoint, I appreciate that the default is to keep users' systems up-to-date. On the other, it seems that Microsoft pushes this with little regard for their users' time or comfort.
It worked perfectly and only took about 30 minutes. And the man uses his computer for a lot of stuff - personal bookkeeping, Word, Excel, Publisher, electronic document management, etc etc etc - and it's all 100% back to normal.
I got tired of these 30 minute updates on my mom's computer and installed Linux along side windows. I changed the theme to somewhat look like Windows and she loves it. No more annoying updates.
It's hilarious because when my stepdad has a problem with his windows computer my mom tells him maybe he should install Linux. Not that Linux is some magic OS that fixes every problem but I do think it has come a long was is now much more user friendly than Windows is now.
> I've never been as frustrated with a windows update as this one. First, I've a small machine with SSD that I use as media center running windows 7, this humongous download (which happened overnight without any consent) killed that machine. Since then I've it switched to linux and things are much better.
Opposite problem with a notebook computer that my friend put Windows 8 on had a small ssd C drive and a big hard disk D drive. The prompt saying get ready for Windows 10 never showed up because the SSD didn't have enough space in it.
Losing settings shouldn't happen. Honestly, I'd have pushed harder requiring people to start fresh for those who want Windows 10.
I'd put (time-triggered?) big warning signs saying that Windows 7 ended mainstream support on January 14, 2020 and Windows 8 will end mainstream support on January 10, 2023 and that you should not use these products after this date unless you really know what you are doing. We are still more than four years away from that date though.
It would make a lot more sense to me for Microsoft to offer Windows 10 for free for a short time to everyone and say that regular prices will resume after this amnesty period.
The way they are putting Window 10 in Windows Update, it makes it seem like Windows 10 is a regular update to Windows. I don't understand this. I wanted to upgrade to Windows 10. The first thing I did when I got Windows 10 was to reset my computer. I am very happy to be able to say that I was able to reset my computer without an external drive. The process took less than two hours and didn't require me to enter a product key. (ymmv of course)
Maybe it is I who has changed and gotten busy/careless but this is the first time that I have gone to just using the computer and not really caring about Windows Update.
Google's Chromebooks did a lot to change my attitude towards computers.
I still obsess a little over some details like what is so important that is Onedrive writing constantly to C:\Users\[redacted]\AppData\Local\Microsoft\OneDrive\logs\Personal\TraceCurrent.6201.1019.etl at about 30000 Bps or why OneDrive seems to be constantly uploading things to a-0011.a-smedge.net at about 7 million bytes per second while reporting not nearly enough corresponding disk activity.
There is not much literature about this and the best I could find with a five second Google search was "TraceArchive.ETL and TraceCurrent.ETL are logging files which appear to contain the remnants of the smart folder feature in Windows 8.1." http://www.champlain.edu/Documents/LCDI/Windows%2010%20Foren... I guess I will attribute it to incompetence until I see some evidence of malevolence.
I guess tl;dr I agree with you. Upgrade to Windows 10 should not happen automatically. It should be a choice that the user (or device administrator) seeks.
If this were like any other Windows OS upgrade in the past, I'd be OK with this. But... it's not. It adds a lot of tracking, reporting, and some (currently innocuous) uncontrollable communication back to Microsoft. I guess it really is time to do the cost/benefit analysis of a single company collecting all of this information from my gaming rig.
Honestly regardless of whether Windows 10 is good or not I can't stand MS pushing this update down my throat.
I have a Windows 7 computer that I use mainly for gaming and having those notifications pop up randomly is infuriating, it behaves like some crappy adware that comes bundled with IE toolbars.
No option to turn it off either, you have to manually uninstall a bunch of updates if you want to get rid of it. And I almost believed the "but MS has changed" crowd. I really hope Valve manages to bring gaming on linux so that I never have to bother with this crappy OS anymore.
You also lose Windows Media *Center, which some of us paid extra for so we could easily connect our Xbox 360 to our Windows PC without extra steps or ongoing fees.
I just installed a $79 OEM Windows 7 to an Intel NUC[1], and I have some questions about upgrading.
1. Why upgrade? Windows 7 seems like a good, stable OS that stays out of my way and lets me get work done. Newer versions have these funky tiles and touch interface, neither of which I want or can even use.
2. I've heard if I let my Win 7 install "important Windows updates", one of the updates is nagware to persuade me to update to Win10. Can that be turned off? Will it violate my privacy?
3. The article says you get up to 31 days to try Win10 and still be able to roll back to your previous OS. Why only 31 days? Why not 60? Why not 10,000? Does some irrevocable change occur to the hard disk after 31 days that renders it incapable of supporting Windows 7?
4. Will it cost money to update to 10 after next year? I'm not necessarily opposed to paying for an upgrade if it's worth it -- it's a product that they spent millions of dollars developing, after all -- but I don't like feeling pressured. I'm just barely getting settled in with Win7, after all!
5. Are there any reasons to stay away from 10? I've heard the anti-privacy scare stories. Anything else? E.g. NSA back doors, or removed support for interacting with Linux, or some such?
[1] (Originally I bought the NUC to be a quiet, compact Linux server/workstation, but unfortunately the i5 model can't seem to run any of the Linux distros I threw at it, whereas Windows installed flawlessly. My main desktop has become a Mac Mini, actually :)
[EDIT asterisks don't work :(]
> At any time during the first 31 days, you can go to “Settings->Update and Security->Recovery and Uninstall Windows 10” to return to your prior version of Windows.
My computer didn't work with Windows 10, contrary to their claim that it would. The drivers I had on the notebook are "too old" and Intel doesn't support the devices for Windows 8 or 10 but MSFT claimed in their "Update to 10" nagware that it would work. It doesn't. I've discovered that only after two days of the immense number of the restarts of Windows 10, searching for the possible causes and finding the posts related to my hardware on the web forums.
And after I returned to Windows 7, it still presents "Upgrade to Windows 10" and to decline I had to uninstall more updates and put some registry entries which I had to search on the web (1). Far from easy to just say "it doesn't work please don't bother me or make the goddamn drivers."
Oh, and the return to Windows 7 from 10 actually didn't work too -- it screwed all the scheduled tasks (which were a part of the Windows 7 installation, not the tasks I've made!) (2)
---
1) This comment seemed to be the most useful: "This is totally unethical, namely re-releasing KB3035583 after hundreds of thousands of people paid technicians to have these removed."
My sister upgraded to Windows 10 and was greeted by a blue screen every time she tried to turn on the computer. Investigating online it seems it's some kind of BIOS incompatibility but the manufacturer (Packard Bell, doesn't operate in USA but it's relatively well known in Spain) doesn't provide BIOS updates for that model. So we restored Windows 7 and lost an entire day. I'm sure she's going to be very happy when she sees the Windows 10 nag again.
"Early next year, we expect to be re-categorizing Windows 10 as a “Recommended Update”. Depending upon your Windows Update settings, this may cause the upgrade process to automatically initiate on your device."
Interesting, my brothers neighbour had the same error on his 1 year old Lenovo. When he started mentioning Windows 10 before the laptop crapped out, I just advised him to go to the shop support and ask them if they will disable the notification when PC is reinstalled.
Where I'm from, when someone needed some "learnin'" it usually didn't mean something fun and awesome to the person that needed a lesson. It has its uses.
This reminds me of college professors calling homework assignments "homeworks". Initially, these professors were all immigrants from India, but the usage spread during my years in grad school. I wonder if this is evidence of a cultural shift at Microsoft caused by hiring so many H1Bs or even influence from their tone-deaf CEO.
It makes no odds. The most egregious intrusion of Windows 10, the wonderful keylogger 'diagtrack.dll' has been backported to 8.1 and 7 and installs under different than advertised Microsoft KB updates.
Upgraded all windows machines to Windows 10. I'm so happy now. Much better. People that say "i moved to linux", we all did this at a point in time But like all Apple users, "I don't have time to troubleshoot, I need to get things done". Windows 10 did this for me till now. Everything works out of the box, no problem.
If they really wanted to make it easy to update, they could offer a downloadable installer image that installs cleanly with any Windows 7-10 license key. And by downloadable I mean an ISO image on a website, not through a "media creation tool" that requires the same operating system.
It's much easier to install/update some Linux distributions, and I don't think that's in their best interest.
Thank god. I don't have windows 10 yet so I have to send microsoft all my keystrokes, browser history and dick pics manually and it's wasting a lot of my time.
I wish I'd noticed this earlier in the day, but it may be worth looking at GWX Control Panel (http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-t...) which provides simple steps to temporarily or permanently remove the (current) "Get Windows 10" system tray icon along with making the Registry changes to block upgrades from happening in Windows Update. It'll also let you easily remove the downloaded 5-6GB of Windows 10 upgrade files if they're already on the system.
This may explain how they accidentally turned the auto update on a few months ago (that ended up forcing a few people to upgrade to 10). They were probably changing this from an Upgrade to an Update and it got out into the wild.
My recommendation is to completely avoid Windows 10, unless you are a heavy PC gamer. In which case you'll need it eventually for DirectX 12.
If you are a PC gamer then install Windows 10 and use only a local account, disable all of its cloud integration, disable all the telemetry and logging and use a third party firewall to block anything else that the OS options do not let you disable.
Then use another machine with another operating system like Linux that doesn't behave like it owns you and your entire system, for all your other personal/professional computing needs.
I'll end up on W10 as it seems inevitable. Mostly I want it as a VMware "KVM mode" (fullscreen, takes over all input) host, due to Windows having better driver, power, and suspend/resume support. I'd love to run VMware directly on Linux but don't like the idea of dicking with drivers for even two hours.
Can anyone give a non-biased, fact based report on what Microsoft tracks and sends to their servers on Windows 10? I've seen a lot of stories claiming that Windows 10 is free because it tracks just about everything, and sends it all to MS servers.
If you want to get rid of the prompt and the upgrade, remove update KB3035583. You'll also want to hide it by right clicking the update and selecting "Hide Update" from within the available updates dialog area. This will stop Windows Update from installing it over and over and over again. Which it will do if you don't hide it.
Also, it looks like for those like myself that have done this, it now appears to be a stand alone update with no KB identifier. You can do the same thing to this update; just Hide it! This work around will probably be overridden by some future update, but it will give you temporary respite from this windows 10 upgropalypse.
> Depending upon your Windows Update settings, this may cause the upgrade process to automatically initiate on your device. Before the upgrade changes the OS of your device, you will be clearly prompted to choose whether or not to continue. And of course, if you choose to upgrade (our recommendation!), then you will have 31 days to roll back to your previous Windows version if you don’t love it.
[+] [-] halite|10 years ago|reply
Second I know an elderly couple who doesn't know much about computers. When they got the prompt for upgrade, they didn't even think it was an operating system upgrade. They thought it was another windows update. Next morning they couldn't do anything as the start button wouldn't work, printers were gone, email settings were gone, critical error message when they click edge etc. Now for a tech savvy person, it wouldn't be a problem and you can easily fix these but they live far from city, like about a good 2 hour drive. Since I'm closest to them, this weekend I'll be making a trip there and fixing it wasting around 6-7 hours of my life just because of windows 10. Thanks Microsoft!
[+] [-] mintplant|10 years ago|reply
Say I just woke up, and I'm in a rush to boot up my computer, print out a paper, and get out the door. But--surprise! Windows Update ran in the background the night before, and now system startup is delayed half an hour or more to configure a new batch of patches.
On the one hand, from a security standpoint, I appreciate that the default is to keep users' systems up-to-date. On the other, it seems that Microsoft pushes this with little regard for their users' time or comfort.
[+] [-] eckza|10 years ago|reply
If it makes you feel any better: I went through this EXACT scenario yesterday. My grandfather accidentally installed Windows 10.
Fortunately, there's a button in Settings that lets you revert: http://www.howtogeek.com/220723/how-to-uninstall-windows-10-...
It worked perfectly and only took about 30 minutes. And the man uses his computer for a lot of stuff - personal bookkeeping, Word, Excel, Publisher, electronic document management, etc etc etc - and it's all 100% back to normal.
[+] [-] Soulsbane|10 years ago|reply
It's hilarious because when my stepdad has a problem with his windows computer my mom tells him maybe he should install Linux. Not that Linux is some magic OS that fixes every problem but I do think it has come a long was is now much more user friendly than Windows is now.
[+] [-] newjersey|10 years ago|reply
Opposite problem with a notebook computer that my friend put Windows 8 on had a small ssd C drive and a big hard disk D drive. The prompt saying get ready for Windows 10 never showed up because the SSD didn't have enough space in it.
Losing settings shouldn't happen. Honestly, I'd have pushed harder requiring people to start fresh for those who want Windows 10.
I'd put (time-triggered?) big warning signs saying that Windows 7 ended mainstream support on January 14, 2020 and Windows 8 will end mainstream support on January 10, 2023 and that you should not use these products after this date unless you really know what you are doing. We are still more than four years away from that date though.
It would make a lot more sense to me for Microsoft to offer Windows 10 for free for a short time to everyone and say that regular prices will resume after this amnesty period.
The way they are putting Window 10 in Windows Update, it makes it seem like Windows 10 is a regular update to Windows. I don't understand this. I wanted to upgrade to Windows 10. The first thing I did when I got Windows 10 was to reset my computer. I am very happy to be able to say that I was able to reset my computer without an external drive. The process took less than two hours and didn't require me to enter a product key. (ymmv of course)
Maybe it is I who has changed and gotten busy/careless but this is the first time that I have gone to just using the computer and not really caring about Windows Update.
Google's Chromebooks did a lot to change my attitude towards computers.
I still obsess a little over some details like what is so important that is Onedrive writing constantly to C:\Users\[redacted]\AppData\Local\Microsoft\OneDrive\logs\Personal\TraceCurrent.6201.1019.etl at about 30000 Bps or why OneDrive seems to be constantly uploading things to a-0011.a-smedge.net at about 7 million bytes per second while reporting not nearly enough corresponding disk activity.
There is not much literature about this and the best I could find with a five second Google search was "TraceArchive.ETL and TraceCurrent.ETL are logging files which appear to contain the remnants of the smart folder feature in Windows 8.1." http://www.champlain.edu/Documents/LCDI/Windows%2010%20Foren... I guess I will attribute it to incompetence until I see some evidence of malevolence.
I guess tl;dr I agree with you. Upgrade to Windows 10 should not happen automatically. It should be a choice that the user (or device administrator) seeks.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle
[+] [-] falcolas|10 years ago|reply
If this were like any other Windows OS upgrade in the past, I'd be OK with this. But... it's not. It adds a lot of tracking, reporting, and some (currently innocuous) uncontrollable communication back to Microsoft. I guess it really is time to do the cost/benefit analysis of a single company collecting all of this information from my gaming rig.
</horse>
[+] [-] simias|10 years ago|reply
I have a Windows 7 computer that I use mainly for gaming and having those notifications pop up randomly is infuriating, it behaves like some crappy adware that comes bundled with IE toolbars.
No option to turn it off either, you have to manually uninstall a bunch of updates if you want to get rid of it. And I almost believed the "but MS has changed" crowd. I really hope Valve manages to bring gaming on linux so that I never have to bother with this crappy OS anymore.
[+] [-] JohnTHaller|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aryehof|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pjmlp|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blisterpeanuts|10 years ago|reply
1. Why upgrade? Windows 7 seems like a good, stable OS that stays out of my way and lets me get work done. Newer versions have these funky tiles and touch interface, neither of which I want or can even use.
2. I've heard if I let my Win 7 install "important Windows updates", one of the updates is nagware to persuade me to update to Win10. Can that be turned off? Will it violate my privacy?
3. The article says you get up to 31 days to try Win10 and still be able to roll back to your previous OS. Why only 31 days? Why not 60? Why not 10,000? Does some irrevocable change occur to the hard disk after 31 days that renders it incapable of supporting Windows 7?
4. Will it cost money to update to 10 after next year? I'm not necessarily opposed to paying for an upgrade if it's worth it -- it's a product that they spent millions of dollars developing, after all -- but I don't like feeling pressured. I'm just barely getting settled in with Win7, after all!
5. Are there any reasons to stay away from 10? I've heard the anti-privacy scare stories. Anything else? E.g. NSA back doors, or removed support for interacting with Linux, or some such?
[1] (Originally I bought the NUC to be a quiet, compact Linux server/workstation, but unfortunately the i5 model can't seem to run any of the Linux distros I threw at it, whereas Windows installed flawlessly. My main desktop has become a Mac Mini, actually :) [EDIT asterisks don't work :(]
[+] [-] acqq|10 years ago|reply
My computer didn't work with Windows 10, contrary to their claim that it would. The drivers I had on the notebook are "too old" and Intel doesn't support the devices for Windows 8 or 10 but MSFT claimed in their "Update to 10" nagware that it would work. It doesn't. I've discovered that only after two days of the immense number of the restarts of Windows 10, searching for the possible causes and finding the posts related to my hardware on the web forums.
And after I returned to Windows 7, it still presents "Upgrade to Windows 10" and to decline I had to uninstall more updates and put some registry entries which I had to search on the web (1). Far from easy to just say "it doesn't work please don't bother me or make the goddamn drivers."
Oh, and the return to Windows 7 from 10 actually didn't work too -- it screwed all the scheduled tasks (which were a part of the Windows 7 installation, not the tasks I've made!) (2)
---
1) This comment seemed to be the most useful: "This is totally unethical, namely re-releasing KB3035583 after hundreds of thousands of people paid technicians to have these removed."
http://au.pcmag.com/windows-10/39165/news/oops-update-glitch...
2) "Task scheduler is broken after windows 10 downgrade"
https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/80e4f83d-1...
[+] [-] carlosrg|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] acqq|10 years ago|reply
"Early next year, we expect to be re-categorizing Windows 10 as a “Recommended Update”. Depending upon your Windows Update settings, this may cause the upgrade process to automatically initiate on your device."
[+] [-] tdkl|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] toxican|10 years ago|reply
Oh great! Can't wait to get a million phone calls about this one.
[+] [-] rbanffy|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] prodmerc|10 years ago|reply
Cortana doesn't work in most countries (why? just why? I speak English ffs).
10 will know more about me than Facebook and Google combined (don't really care, but it's a bad thing imo).
No thanks, I'm happy with 7.
[+] [-] brianmcc|10 years ago|reply
(I know, the horse has bolted long ago, no pointing harrassing this stable door. I will blame too many choccy biscuits after lunch...)
[+] [-] GnomeChomsky|10 years ago|reply
As in, "Let's memorialize the learns so we don't disrupt this value-add in the future."
[+] [-] talmand|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dietlbomb|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwawayaway|10 years ago|reply
So it really is time to move to Linux.
[+] [-] batrat|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jussij|10 years ago|reply
Windows 7 is a much better version of Windows than Windows 10 will ever be so my suggestion would be wait a few years.
[+] [-] blisterpeanuts|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andor|10 years ago|reply
It's much easier to install/update some Linux distributions, and I don't think that's in their best interest.
[+] [-] ac29|10 years ago|reply
Not a "media creation tool", doesnt require windows. Just the ISO.
[+] [-] CyberDildonics|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fencepost|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bargl|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ionised|10 years ago|reply
If you are a PC gamer then install Windows 10 and use only a local account, disable all of its cloud integration, disable all the telemetry and logging and use a third party firewall to block anything else that the OS options do not let you disable.
Then use another machine with another operating system like Linux that doesn't behave like it owns you and your entire system, for all your other personal/professional computing needs.
[+] [-] MichaelGG|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bostonvaulter2|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ep103|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drdaeman|10 years ago|reply
It's in Czech, but packet dumps are language-agnostic and comments can be translated using, say, Google Translate, reasonably accurately.
[+] [-] Asmod4n|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pcunite|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pjmlp|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] v4n4d1s|10 years ago|reply
Anyone knows if this is complete?
[+] [-] snake_plissken|10 years ago|reply
Also, it looks like for those like myself that have done this, it now appears to be a stand alone update with no KB identifier. You can do the same thing to this update; just Hide it! This work around will probably be overridden by some future update, but it will give you temporary respite from this windows 10 upgropalypse.
[+] [-] vetinari|10 years ago|reply
In other words, carefully check the updates. I had to hide it again several times already. I shouldn't have to do that :(
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] pcunite|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Asmod4n|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DangerousPie|10 years ago|reply
> Depending upon your Windows Update settings, this may cause the upgrade process to automatically initiate on your device. Before the upgrade changes the OS of your device, you will be clearly prompted to choose whether or not to continue. And of course, if you choose to upgrade (our recommendation!), then you will have 31 days to roll back to your previous Windows version if you don’t love it.