I'm generally willing to take statements from Google at face value; they've done unpopular things (killing Reader, etc.), but in my experience haven't been deceptive about them.
I hope they realize how valuable a reasonably secure, "stateless" OS like Chrome OS is for many applications. Chrome OS is far from perfection in this space (and there are a lot of easy ways to make it better, and some hard ways to make it vastly better), but it is head and shoulders above anything else for a lot of deployment models right now.
Handing me a Chromebook with reasonable assurances the "dev switch" hasn't ever been switched is one of the general purpose full-TCB devices I'd accept from someone and mostly trust. (obviously hardware hacks, or switch was thrown and reflashed and disabled/reset). It's also a cheap/awesome way to manage fleets of machines in education and corporate/kiosk/etc. environments -- you CAN achieve that with Mac OS or Windows, but it requires a lot of work.
In fact, I would say for some users, Chrome OS is near perfection. Take my uncle for instance, who for years was getting himself infected with malware requiring regular visits from me or geek squad to wipe his system. When he was ready for his most recent upgrade, I tried him on Mint, but he didn't like the interface. Then I suggested a Chromebook. He LOVES IT. He says it's the best machine he's ever owned. One year later, and not a single issue with malware.
I don't worry about him getting infected. If instead of a Chromebook, he had gotten some Android tablet with an OS stuck at 4.x, he's likely be infected by now.
Android and Chrome OS serve different use cases. Even if Android manages to fix their upgrade issue, I doubt it will ever be as secure as Chrome OS. From the blog, "guaranteed auto-updates for five years", sounds like a few people at Google get this. Fingers crossed.
> Handing me a Chromebook with reasonable assurances the "dev switch" hasn't ever been switched
Why would you distrust it if the dev switch has been switched? As long as the write-protect screw hasn't been turned, you can trust the root of trust when the dev switch is switched back.
Google could easily market the combined OS as "Chrome OS" rather than Android. In fact that might be a good idea if they're going to make the experience/distribution model more Google-led like it is with Chrome OS.
It could also mean that the two operating systems are going to be merged at a base level but keep distinct userlands, like iOS and OSX.
The point this article was trying to make, is that Chrome OS is under LTS constraints at the UX and userland-API level for its present enterprise users (schools, mostly, but also some corporations.) Under these constraints, the kernel, display-server stack, etc. might get switched out in some future version, but educators who are dependent on their present workflows using specific apps+extensions will be able to continue to use them with no change. Any "merger" with Android will be at a level that is transparent both to the user, and to the Chrome app/extension developer.
I think it's very clear from this post that they do plan to combine them -- but that the goal is to make a combined technical base featuring the best of ChromeOS and Android (which makes sense), not to kill ChromeOS and replace it with Android (which doesn't).
I still think Android will be Virtual Machine and Chrome OS will be the OS for both phones and Chromebooks 5 years from now. I also think we will see a move away from Java so what do I know?
I think the idea is Google are just aligning there Core Linux base between all there products allowing for a whole range of improvements from resource sharing to a even better security. and it may even allow them to upgrade Android at a better update rate, with reports that the Google Pixel C a Tablet running Android is getting updates every 6 weeks.
i would also like to point out Microsoft has basically done the same thing with the Windows 10 Core its now on XBOX ONE, Windows Phone, PC and even a Raspberry Pi runs this core but they all have there own user space setups/gui.
This would, imho, be the best possible outcome of this: libchromeos becoming the underpinning for all Google's consumer OS projects, and then having a distinct userland slapped on top of it. Especially if it meant the device-specific stuff all happens in the brillo/core layer, and we can slap a chromeos, iot, or android layer on top of it regardless of the device.
Want to turn your nexus player into a desktop computer? replace the androidTV user layer with the ChromeOS user layer. Want to turn your chromebook into a media centre? do the opposite. turn an old phone into a home automation server by replacing android with the IOT layer.
On the more interesting side, I had no idea about the Chromebit. So now to find out how to get one since the page linked in the article is a "sign up to stay in loop". But after some more digging seems like it is already out, or maybe just previewed earlier this year to some bloggers?
I found out about it a few weeks ago. It was announced in the Spring, supposed to come out in the summer, then nothing other than maybe it'll be less than $100 and available Q4 2015. Hearing Google say it'll be a few weeks is reassuring.
Notice that they never say Android is here to stay - Maybe Chrome OS will become the Phone/Tablet OS under a new guise?
Google's working on a new UI layer and potential backwards compatibility for older Android apps, which points in that direction:
- Chromium developers are working on a DART-based Mobile UI framework and execution engine, Flutter (http://flutter.io/). It's looking to be far better than the existing Android UI system - built for touch and 120fps from the start. This uses the Dartium VM and a bridge to allow the DART apps to use all the native features of the platform, it's much more than just another web framework. Development on this is very active right now, clearly a sizable team working fulltime - and they're building new developer tools also. There was a talk on this a while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnIWl33YMwA .
- Google has built a Runtime to allow existing Android Java-based apps to run on Chrome OS, and is currently testing this and working with developers to get their apps to run on it. It doesn't make much sense to invest in building that out just for chromebooks, since the experience on a Chromebook with Android apps is pretty awful (can't resize etc), but it makes total sense if it's going to be how legacy Java/Android apps run on the new Chrome based phone OS.
The sad truth is that Android simply isn't a very well engineered system - it's been improved over time, but problems persist - like the complex update process leading to unsatisfied users and security problems, poor UI performance (even now, Android can barely do simple animations at a steady 60fps on the latest Nexus devices, and has little hope of allowing for the beautiful animations the Material Design team has come up with), and poor battery life. Google's also at a dead-end with Java given the ongoing legal battles, and with Apache Harmony dead they have to maintain the standard library implementation themselves.
On the other hand, Chrome OS performs great, has awesome battery life on Chromebooks, is quite possibly the most secure end-user OS ever, and Chromebooks get speedy updates for at least 5 years. I know which one I'd choose as the basis for a merged OS.
Of course, if the merge is more Chrome OS than Android, they'd be saying exactly what they're saying now - The last thing they want is an Osbourne effect hitting the current Android phones.
That's because no one seriously thinks for a minute that Android is not here to stay. When you hear about the dominant global mobile operating system (share, not profit) and a niche desktop operating system "merging" it's not difficult to work out which one is more at risk.
This announcement is aimed strictly for business consumption and has nothing to do with technology. Google will be inundated with hardware developers (OEM's) and large Chrome OS buyers (distributors, educational groups) saying "the Microsoft sales people are telling me you're abandoning Chrome OS. This is very disturbing to us as we've made a significant investment in your technology!" This is their effort to rebut some of that FUD which may or may not be FUD.
These are good points, but I view their efforts on ARC more as them expanding the Chrome store's app catalog than Chrome OS completely eating Android.
And as an aside, I think many developers simply don't devote the effort to fully developing their Android apps for Chrome OS. I have an (albeit simple) Android app I publish on Chrome OS, and it's my product's most popular platform. So it gets special attention, and supports resizing with the fairly undocumented "resize" value in the app's manifest:
Never thought this way, this is actually a great idea. I mean, even if Android runs Androids apps natively, in most cases developers still needs to include Android support library, to provide backwards compatibility with older versions of Android.
So since we need Android support library anyway, why not simply include the complete runtime (like ARC), in base of a really simple and slim OS, like ChromeOS with Flutter UI. This new OS would get direct updates from Google, like ChromeOS. To get legacy support of apps designed for Android, simple repackage every existing application with ARC. Win-win situation, right?
like the complex update process leading to unsatisfied users - unsatisfied tech users? Don't thin the normal public care or knows about the version of Android they are running.
But will it still use glibc Linux (Gentoo) or it will switch to bionic Android one? That was the main point, and not the confusion that Chrome OS is disappearing.
Can we please get a gradual plan for looping in the rest of the mainline linux ecosystem?
The desktop market may be shit, but it's there and google could still go after it if they wanted to. At some point Apple is going to realize that the major market it hasn't dominated yet is... the PC, and it's ripe for attack now that alternative computing footholds are so well established in mobile from the Microsoft days of yore.
I'm sure for the vast majority of Chrome OS users, the technology powering their device is of no significance compared to a reliable and consistent UI.
plus who cares? Chrome OS could just be a stripped-down android, and the world would be fine. Actually I though they were already mostly the same (I have a chromebook, but no android device, I don't know what's the difference, appart from the fact that my chromebook gets regular updates)
While we’ve been working on ways to bring together the
best of both operating systems, there's no plan to
phase out Chrome OS
Comes from a worry about chromebook sales, not any presence or lack of a technical plan to merge or combine components from the two.
I would bet this is actually: 'YES, we are merging something with something technically, we're just going to keep two brands for now'.
For all the reasons in the other thread, it's both good and bad in different ways; but I would be astonished if you don't see wide support for Android apps on chromebooks in the near future; and that does require some kind of Android runtime.
so what does this really mean, Chrome-OS will not be "folded" into Android? Can't have a concrete answer after reading it through though.
MS Windows is trying to rule all platforms with one OS, so does iOS, even Ubuntu is trying the same, maybe Google though they need one OS to rule it all as well?
[+] [-] rdl|10 years ago|reply
I hope they realize how valuable a reasonably secure, "stateless" OS like Chrome OS is for many applications. Chrome OS is far from perfection in this space (and there are a lot of easy ways to make it better, and some hard ways to make it vastly better), but it is head and shoulders above anything else for a lot of deployment models right now.
Handing me a Chromebook with reasonable assurances the "dev switch" hasn't ever been switched is one of the general purpose full-TCB devices I'd accept from someone and mostly trust. (obviously hardware hacks, or switch was thrown and reflashed and disabled/reset). It's also a cheap/awesome way to manage fleets of machines in education and corporate/kiosk/etc. environments -- you CAN achieve that with Mac OS or Windows, but it requires a lot of work.
I hope they don't kill it in the future.
[+] [-] slacka|10 years ago|reply
In fact, I would say for some users, Chrome OS is near perfection. Take my uncle for instance, who for years was getting himself infected with malware requiring regular visits from me or geek squad to wipe his system. When he was ready for his most recent upgrade, I tried him on Mint, but he didn't like the interface. Then I suggested a Chromebook. He LOVES IT. He says it's the best machine he's ever owned. One year later, and not a single issue with malware.
I don't worry about him getting infected. If instead of a Chromebook, he had gotten some Android tablet with an OS stuck at 4.x, he's likely be infected by now.
Android and Chrome OS serve different use cases. Even if Android manages to fix their upgrade issue, I doubt it will ever be as secure as Chrome OS. From the blog, "guaranteed auto-updates for five years", sounds like a few people at Google get this. Fingers crossed.
[+] [-] JoshTriplett|10 years ago|reply
Why would you distrust it if the dev switch has been switched? As long as the write-protect screw hasn't been turned, you can trust the root of trust when the dev switch is switched back.
[+] [-] Pxtl|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] exit|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kinofcain|10 years ago|reply
does not explicitly refute
"speculation that Chrome OS will be folded into Android"
Especially since the original story stated that google was going to "combine the operating systems":
http://www.wsj.com/articles/alphabets-google-to-fold-chrome-...
Google could easily market the combined OS as "Chrome OS" rather than Android. In fact that might be a good idea if they're going to make the experience/distribution model more Google-led like it is with Chrome OS.
[+] [-] derefr|10 years ago|reply
The point this article was trying to make, is that Chrome OS is under LTS constraints at the UX and userland-API level for its present enterprise users (schools, mostly, but also some corporations.) Under these constraints, the kernel, display-server stack, etc. might get switched out in some future version, but educators who are dependent on their present workflows using specific apps+extensions will be able to continue to use them with no change. Any "merger" with Android will be at a level that is transparent both to the user, and to the Chrome app/extension developer.
[+] [-] mkozlows|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] digi_owl|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] baldfat|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Touche|10 years ago|reply
With such skepticism what could they have same that would have satisfied you?
[+] [-] fiatjaf|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] x5n1|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bingobob|10 years ago|reply
libchromeos is transitioning to libbrillo and chromeos namespaces and include directory is changing to brillo.
brillo is Google IoT OS, https://developers.google.com/brillo/?hl=en they say its based on Android?
also the new Google onHub Router are running ChromeOS http://thehackernews.com/2015/10/root-google-onhub-chromeos....
I think the idea is Google are just aligning there Core Linux base between all there products allowing for a whole range of improvements from resource sharing to a even better security. and it may even allow them to upgrade Android at a better update rate, with reports that the Google Pixel C a Tablet running Android is getting updates every 6 weeks.
i would also like to point out Microsoft has basically done the same thing with the Windows 10 Core its now on XBOX ONE, Windows Phone, PC and even a Raspberry Pi runs this core but they all have there own user space setups/gui.
[+] [-] notatoad|10 years ago|reply
Want to turn your nexus player into a desktop computer? replace the androidTV user layer with the ChromeOS user layer. Want to turn your chromebook into a media centre? do the opposite. turn an old phone into a home automation server by replacing android with the IOT layer.
[+] [-] patrickaljord|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thebouv|10 years ago|reply
On the more interesting side, I had no idea about the Chromebit. So now to find out how to get one since the page linked in the article is a "sign up to stay in loop". But after some more digging seems like it is already out, or maybe just previewed earlier this year to some bloggers?
[+] [-] wishinghand|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ericfrederich|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jordanthoms|10 years ago|reply
Google's working on a new UI layer and potential backwards compatibility for older Android apps, which points in that direction:
- Chromium developers are working on a DART-based Mobile UI framework and execution engine, Flutter (http://flutter.io/). It's looking to be far better than the existing Android UI system - built for touch and 120fps from the start. This uses the Dartium VM and a bridge to allow the DART apps to use all the native features of the platform, it's much more than just another web framework. Development on this is very active right now, clearly a sizable team working fulltime - and they're building new developer tools also. There was a talk on this a while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnIWl33YMwA .
- Google has built a Runtime to allow existing Android Java-based apps to run on Chrome OS, and is currently testing this and working with developers to get their apps to run on it. It doesn't make much sense to invest in building that out just for chromebooks, since the experience on a Chromebook with Android apps is pretty awful (can't resize etc), but it makes total sense if it's going to be how legacy Java/Android apps run on the new Chrome based phone OS.
The sad truth is that Android simply isn't a very well engineered system - it's been improved over time, but problems persist - like the complex update process leading to unsatisfied users and security problems, poor UI performance (even now, Android can barely do simple animations at a steady 60fps on the latest Nexus devices, and has little hope of allowing for the beautiful animations the Material Design team has come up with), and poor battery life. Google's also at a dead-end with Java given the ongoing legal battles, and with Apache Harmony dead they have to maintain the standard library implementation themselves.
On the other hand, Chrome OS performs great, has awesome battery life on Chromebooks, is quite possibly the most secure end-user OS ever, and Chromebooks get speedy updates for at least 5 years. I know which one I'd choose as the basis for a merged OS.
Of course, if the merge is more Chrome OS than Android, they'd be saying exactly what they're saying now - The last thing they want is an Osbourne effect hitting the current Android phones.
[+] [-] jusben1369|10 years ago|reply
This announcement is aimed strictly for business consumption and has nothing to do with technology. Google will be inundated with hardware developers (OEM's) and large Chrome OS buyers (distributors, educational groups) saying "the Microsoft sales people are telling me you're abandoning Chrome OS. This is very disturbing to us as we've made a significant investment in your technology!" This is their effort to rebut some of that FUD which may or may not be FUD.
[+] [-] thebaer|10 years ago|reply
And as an aside, I think many developers simply don't devote the effort to fully developing their Android apps for Chrome OS. I have an (albeit simple) Android app I publish on Chrome OS, and it's my product's most popular platform. So it gets special attention, and supports resizing with the fairly undocumented "resize" value in the app's manifest:
[+] [-] Dylan16807|10 years ago|reply
Or Google could give two names to the same thing, like Youtube Red and Google Play Music.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] m45t3r|10 years ago|reply
So since we need Android support library anyway, why not simply include the complete runtime (like ARC), in base of a really simple and slim OS, like ChromeOS with Flutter UI. This new OS would get direct updates from Google, like ChromeOS. To get legacy support of apps designed for Android, simple repackage every existing application with ARC. Win-win situation, right?
[+] [-] ocean3|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aznpwnzor|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] the-dude|10 years ago|reply
Haven't had the time to check it really out, but seams to be 'iBeacons'.
[+] [-] amyjess|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shmerl|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cowardlydragon|10 years ago|reply
The desktop market may be shit, but it's there and google could still go after it if they wanted to. At some point Apple is going to realize that the major market it hasn't dominated yet is... the PC, and it's ripe for attack now that alternative computing footholds are so well established in mobile from the Microsoft days of yore.
[+] [-] toddchambery|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nraynaud|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shadowmint|10 years ago|reply
I would bet this is actually: 'YES, we are merging something with something technically, we're just going to keep two brands for now'.
For all the reasons in the other thread, it's both good and bad in different ways; but I would be astonished if you don't see wide support for Android apps on chromebooks in the near future; and that does require some kind of Android runtime.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] nikanj|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Artistry121|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] snambi|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notatoad|10 years ago|reply
http://www.engadget.com/2014/08/21/hp-slatebook-14-review/
[+] [-] bedros|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ausjke|10 years ago|reply
MS Windows is trying to rule all platforms with one OS, so does iOS, even Ubuntu is trying the same, maybe Google though they need one OS to rule it all as well?
[+] [-] simula67|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] deckar01|10 years ago|reply
Even if ChromeOS got completely replaced by Android (which they seem to say it won't) surely it would merge/fork and not just get abandoned.
[+] [-] ocdtrekkie|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] KuhlMensch|10 years ago|reply
Wow.
[+] [-] awqrre|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zigurd|10 years ago|reply
If there was an awesome touch ux for the pixel laptop I'd be more inclined to believe.
[+] [-] anonbanker|10 years ago|reply
(written from my Chromebook running custom Gentoo Linux)