FWIW, Eater published an article 5 days ago that discussed examples of New York eateries who are either OK or annoyed with being listed without permission
> But not all restaurants on DoorDash know that they're listed. Tommy Ferrick, owner of Delilah's Steaks in Greenpoint, says he rejected an offer from a DoorDash salesperson months ago due to a 20 to 25 percent commission fee. More than 50 percent of his cheesesteak business is from delivery, and he's already paying GrubHub a commission that ends up being three times higher than his rent every month. He's currently trying to get more people to just order directly through the restaurant. But a few weeks ago, his business started getting pick-up orders from DoorDash. He looked on the site and was shocked to see the Delilah's Steaks logo and full menu listed as an available restaurant, with significant price markups. A cheesesteak costs $11 in the shop, for example, but DoorDash charged $16.95 for it. "I was livid," says Ferrick, who worries about quality control for deliveries he doesn't know about.
Doughnut Plant seems meh about it:
> Still, DoorDash lists three of four Doughnut Plants shops on the site without the company's permission — but PostMates, Doughnut Plant's preferred delivery merchant, did reach out before posting the menu, according to the bakery's creative director Jeff Magness. The Doughnut Plant logo DoorDash posts is also incomplete, Magness adds. "I don't like [that] it makes it look like we are working with them," he writes in an email. "That said, we haven't received complaints from customers."
They should just use their containers to advertise the app and offer a small discount (10% or so) and then Doordash/Grubhub becomes a marketing channel for their app. Thats what I'd do.
>A cheesesteak costs $11 in the shop, for example, but DoorDash charged $16.95 for it.
From a customer perspective, this practice feels very disingenuous. The 5.95 should be labeled as part of a delivery fee.
If somehow DoorDash was the first link a user visited after searching for "donut plant", they would need information to decide whether to visit the restaurant or to order online.
The transparent thing to do is to list the 5.95 markup as DoorDash-imposed. That way the user can easily see their choice
I am not a fan of DoorDash's business techniques. DoorDash sent a flyer to my house false advertising a coupon code. I spent half an hour creating an order only to realize that the coupon they sent me was different from what the flyer said. When I called to complain they acknowledged their error but said they wouldn't do anything and that I should just place an order anyways.
> Fast food restaurant In-N-Out, known for its delicious burgers and secret sauce, is suing food delivery startup DoorDash, TMZ reported earlier today. In-N-Out, which filed the lawsuit on Nov. 6, 2015, claims trademark infringement and unfair competition. Basically, In-N-Out wants DoorDash to stop delivering their delicious food because of concerns around quality, food handling and safety.
Why using so many times the word delicious? Moreover, that's not really the scope of the article.
Same goes for the DoorDash spokesperson's statement. That blurb had an entropy so close to zero they just could have left it out.
Is this just lazy reporting or is it an effect of the leaking of corporate speech into everyday language? Asked differently: Have we become so used to the marketing jargon that even reporters start picking it up in their articles?
The difference is that restaurants sign up to offer their existing delivery services to customers through H&L and Menulog, who are merely the conduit through which orders are placed. It's still the restaurant making the deliveries, and they can choose to pull out at any time.
It's crazy how popular they've become; just about everybody I know uses Menulog and Eat Now to order food, and if your restaurant isn't on it, we'll probably never know about you.
Menulog et. al are just discovery and payment gateways for those restaurants, so that they can offer an online service where they wouldn't be able to on their own. The establishments still handle all delivery themselves.
Trademark stuff, ok, it makes sense they can't use their logos and such. But the whole quality control, food handling, meh. Soon as it's paid for and in the customer's hands, it's the customer's business what happens to it next, not In-N-Outs, it's not theirs anymore.
If you get a bad experience because DoorDash took too long or dropped the box and didn't tell you I suspect some/many/most? people might blame the restaurant, not DoorDash. So in that sense I can see why In-N-Out would care since from their POV DoorDash is appearing to represent them to customers.
But it doesn't reach the customers hands until it is delivered. How long does it take to be delivered? never used Door Dash. Does Door Dash care about quality? probably not as long as it is delivered. We know startups will try to grow quick, which in turn can make their services suffer. customers might blame In-N-Out instead of Door Dash (there are crazy people around).
Not necessarily.. if people start to get sick, who has the liability. Jack in the Box had bad food practices and it killed a bunch of people. Same idea here.
When someone represents themselves as an agent of another merchant but don't have a relationship with that merchant you're literally just buying something from the back of a van.
In-n-out gets exposed to liabilities and bad pr. No brainer.
Funny enough by suing DoorDash actually gets bad PR which to them is still good PR. A lot more people will know about DoorDash than before. Pretty naughty to agree to stop then renege on it, then disregard all attempts there after. Almost as if it was deliberate...
But getting a $5 burger in your mouth in 45 minutes with a $3 delivery fee is the boring part. The larger context of all this is how companies use terminology these days.
Per DoorDash marketing:
Through the DoorDash marketplace, people can purchase goods from local merchants and have them delivered in less than 45 minutes - thanks to our revolutionary logistics technology.
Per DoorDash TOS:
THE COMPANY DOES NOT PROVIDE LOGISTICS OR COURIER SERVICES, AND THE COMPANY IS NOT A LOGISTICS CARRIER. IT IS UP TO THE THIRD PARTY COURIER OR LOGISTICS PROVIDER, COURIER OR VEHICLE OPERATOR TO OFFER COURIER SERVICES WHICH MAY BE SCHEDULED THROUGH USE OF THE SOFTWARE OR SERVICE. THE COMPANY OFFERS INFORMATION AND A METHOD TO OBTAIN SUCH THIRD PARTY COURIER SERVICES, BUT DOES NOT AND DOES NOT INTEND TO PROVIDE COURIER SERVICES OR ACT IN ANY WAY AS A COURIER, AND HAS NO RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY FOR ANY COURIER OTHER THAN STATED HEREIN SERVICES PROVIDED TO YOU BY SUCH THIRD PARTIES.
Per Postmates marketing:
Postmates' revolutionary urban logistics & on-demand delivery platform connects customers with local couriers, who purchase and deliver goods from any restaurant or store in a city.
Per Postmates TOS:
THE COMPANY DOES NOT PROVIDE LOGISTICS OR COURIER SERVICES, AND THE COMPANY IS NOT A LOGISTICS CARRIER. IT IS UP TO THE THIRD PARTY COURIER OR LOGISTICS PROVIDER, COURIER OR VEHICLE OPERATOR (COLLECTIVELY, THE “POSTMATE”) TO OFFER COURIER SERVICES WHICH MAY BE SCHEDULED THROUGH USE OF THE SOFTWARE OR SERVICE. THE COMPANY OFFERS INFORMATION AND A METHOD TO OBTAIN SUCH THIRD PARTY COURIER SERVICES, BUT DOES NOT AND DOES NOT INTEND TO PROVIDE COURIER SERVICES OR ACT IN ANY WAY AS A COURIER, AND HAS NO RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY FOR ANY COURIER.
And of course the grand daddy of them all:
By seamlessly connecting riders to drivers through our apps, we make cities more accessible, opening up more possibilities for riders and more business for drivers.
And per Uber TOS:
The Services constitute a technology platform that enables users of Uber's mobile applications or websites provided as part of the Services (each, an "Application") to arrange and schedule transportation and/or logistics services with third party providers of such services, including independent third party transportation providers and third party logistics providers under agreement with Uber or certain of Uber's affiliates ("Third Party Providers"). YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT UBER DOES NOT PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION OR LOGISTICS SERVICES OR FUNCTION AS A TRANSPORTATION CARRIER.
A lot of aerobatics to contort and redefine words so that one gets the branding benefit of the word's previous meaning but suffer none of word's consequences.
Is this a better or worse turn than the naughtiness of YouTube hypergrowth days shielded by DMCA safe harbor? Or how Facebook drags their feet dealing with users that steal content because it allows them to juice up their view counts?
The Postmates and Uber marketing materials look like they were written with lawyers involved. They make the companies sound like third party middlemen. The DoorDash one is less slick. "People can purchase goods from local merchants" sounds like the merchants are on board, which In-n-Out clearly is not.
With Uber, technically it's rasier that provides t&l services, Uber is just a software company and rasier is the sketch shell company to take the fall if tshtf
You know what I wish would happen? Everyone would just get along - the burger guys, the tech guys. Just deliver the things with drones already guys, mmkay? I need that. I live in Europe. I haven't had a proper burger in decades.
"...concerns around quality, food handling and safety."
I completely understand. I used DoorDash exactly once to order from a local Chinese restaurant. The food was delivered by a dude who looked disinterested, and the containers were crushed and leaking lots of brown sauce into the plastic bag. It wasn't a great experience. Whose fault was it? I dunno. But I haven't ordered from DoorDash or that Chinese restaurant since.
I don't know how DoorDash could make In-N-Out food worse. Seriously their food is not good. I see the trademark angle but the quality? Please they should start with making something worth while.
I'm going to go down the off-topic path with you as I would agree with you. On my last trip out to SF I tried them and I was really underwhelmed. As far as fast food burgers and fries went I enjoyed Carl's Jr. far more.
The fries at In-N-Out is an interesting paradox. Without sauce they taste almost like nothing; the blandest fast food fries I've ever eaten. With sauce? It's okay. A bit too soggy for my liking but okay.
I assume others are going to downvote you to oblivion so I'll upvote you :)
I've used DoorDash before but not for In-N-Out...I wonder how many Stanfordians have done so, given that DoorDash is a product of Stanford graduates and of the incredibly annoying fact that In-N-Out is in the 2 nearby localities (Redwood City and Mountain View), but not Palo Alto or Menlo Park...Anyone who has been around the area know why In-N-Out hasn't managed to get a place near Stanford? This is the first California city I've lived in without its own In-N-Out. I would definitely use DoorDash for In-N-Out delivery.
danso|10 years ago
http://ny.eater.com/2015/11/6/9678206/door-dash-delivery-nyc
> But not all restaurants on DoorDash know that they're listed. Tommy Ferrick, owner of Delilah's Steaks in Greenpoint, says he rejected an offer from a DoorDash salesperson months ago due to a 20 to 25 percent commission fee. More than 50 percent of his cheesesteak business is from delivery, and he's already paying GrubHub a commission that ends up being three times higher than his rent every month. He's currently trying to get more people to just order directly through the restaurant. But a few weeks ago, his business started getting pick-up orders from DoorDash. He looked on the site and was shocked to see the Delilah's Steaks logo and full menu listed as an available restaurant, with significant price markups. A cheesesteak costs $11 in the shop, for example, but DoorDash charged $16.95 for it. "I was livid," says Ferrick, who worries about quality control for deliveries he doesn't know about.
Doughnut Plant seems meh about it:
> Still, DoorDash lists three of four Doughnut Plants shops on the site without the company's permission — but PostMates, Doughnut Plant's preferred delivery merchant, did reach out before posting the menu, according to the bakery's creative director Jeff Magness. The Doughnut Plant logo DoorDash posts is also incomplete, Magness adds. "I don't like [that] it makes it look like we are working with them," he writes in an email. "That said, we haven't received complaints from customers."
cmadan|10 years ago
bgilroy26|10 years ago
From a customer perspective, this practice feels very disingenuous. The 5.95 should be labeled as part of a delivery fee.
If somehow DoorDash was the first link a user visited after searching for "donut plant", they would need information to decide whether to visit the restaurant or to order online.
The transparent thing to do is to list the 5.95 markup as DoorDash-imposed. That way the user can easily see their choice
trevordev|10 years ago
hartator|10 years ago
Why using so many times the word delicious? Moreover, that's not really the scope of the article.
lzr_io|10 years ago
Is this just lazy reporting or is it an effect of the leaking of corporate speech into everyday language? Asked differently: Have we become so used to the marketing jargon that even reporters start picking it up in their articles?
jeffdavis|10 years ago
The details will determine who is right -- hence the lawsuit.
bobbles|10 years ago
It's made getting delivery food here SO much better, as it's many smaller family owned stores that now get massive business if they have better food
neotek|10 years ago
It's crazy how popular they've become; just about everybody I know uses Menulog and Eat Now to order food, and if your restaurant isn't on it, we'll probably never know about you.
nness|10 years ago
Hilyin|10 years ago
greggman|10 years ago
smokeyj|10 years ago
torbit|10 years ago
CodeWriter23|10 years ago
Since DoorDash is handing the food over to the customer, after a delay that will likely exceed 20 minutes, I can see In-N-Out's point here.
sjg007|10 years ago
unknown|10 years ago
[deleted]
thedogeye|10 years ago
alaskamiller|10 years ago
In-n-out gets exposed to liabilities and bad pr. No brainer.
Funny enough by suing DoorDash actually gets bad PR which to them is still good PR. A lot more people will know about DoorDash than before. Pretty naughty to agree to stop then renege on it, then disregard all attempts there after. Almost as if it was deliberate...
But getting a $5 burger in your mouth in 45 minutes with a $3 delivery fee is the boring part. The larger context of all this is how companies use terminology these days.
Per DoorDash marketing:
Through the DoorDash marketplace, people can purchase goods from local merchants and have them delivered in less than 45 minutes - thanks to our revolutionary logistics technology.
Per DoorDash TOS:
THE COMPANY DOES NOT PROVIDE LOGISTICS OR COURIER SERVICES, AND THE COMPANY IS NOT A LOGISTICS CARRIER. IT IS UP TO THE THIRD PARTY COURIER OR LOGISTICS PROVIDER, COURIER OR VEHICLE OPERATOR TO OFFER COURIER SERVICES WHICH MAY BE SCHEDULED THROUGH USE OF THE SOFTWARE OR SERVICE. THE COMPANY OFFERS INFORMATION AND A METHOD TO OBTAIN SUCH THIRD PARTY COURIER SERVICES, BUT DOES NOT AND DOES NOT INTEND TO PROVIDE COURIER SERVICES OR ACT IN ANY WAY AS A COURIER, AND HAS NO RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY FOR ANY COURIER OTHER THAN STATED HEREIN SERVICES PROVIDED TO YOU BY SUCH THIRD PARTIES.
Per Postmates marketing:
Postmates' revolutionary urban logistics & on-demand delivery platform connects customers with local couriers, who purchase and deliver goods from any restaurant or store in a city.
Per Postmates TOS:
THE COMPANY DOES NOT PROVIDE LOGISTICS OR COURIER SERVICES, AND THE COMPANY IS NOT A LOGISTICS CARRIER. IT IS UP TO THE THIRD PARTY COURIER OR LOGISTICS PROVIDER, COURIER OR VEHICLE OPERATOR (COLLECTIVELY, THE “POSTMATE”) TO OFFER COURIER SERVICES WHICH MAY BE SCHEDULED THROUGH USE OF THE SOFTWARE OR SERVICE. THE COMPANY OFFERS INFORMATION AND A METHOD TO OBTAIN SUCH THIRD PARTY COURIER SERVICES, BUT DOES NOT AND DOES NOT INTEND TO PROVIDE COURIER SERVICES OR ACT IN ANY WAY AS A COURIER, AND HAS NO RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY FOR ANY COURIER.
And of course the grand daddy of them all:
By seamlessly connecting riders to drivers through our apps, we make cities more accessible, opening up more possibilities for riders and more business for drivers.
And per Uber TOS:
The Services constitute a technology platform that enables users of Uber's mobile applications or websites provided as part of the Services (each, an "Application") to arrange and schedule transportation and/or logistics services with third party providers of such services, including independent third party transportation providers and third party logistics providers under agreement with Uber or certain of Uber's affiliates ("Third Party Providers"). YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT UBER DOES NOT PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION OR LOGISTICS SERVICES OR FUNCTION AS A TRANSPORTATION CARRIER.
A lot of aerobatics to contort and redefine words so that one gets the branding benefit of the word's previous meaning but suffer none of word's consequences.
Is this a better or worse turn than the naughtiness of YouTube hypergrowth days shielded by DMCA safe harbor? Or how Facebook drags their feet dealing with users that steal content because it allows them to juice up their view counts?
massysett|10 years ago
dnautics|10 years ago
fit2rule|10 years ago
untilHellbanned|10 years ago
1. Homejoy
2. Theranos
3. Doordash
4. DraftKings/FanDuel
5. Fab
6. Evernote
7. ...
ronyeh|10 years ago
I completely understand. I used DoorDash exactly once to order from a local Chinese restaurant. The food was delivered by a dude who looked disinterested, and the containers were crushed and leaking lots of brown sauce into the plastic bag. It wasn't a great experience. Whose fault was it? I dunno. But I haven't ordered from DoorDash or that Chinese restaurant since.
huhtenberg|10 years ago
Remember the case of Cristal (champagne) vs. the rappers from 2006? Similar idea - http://www.economist.com/node/6905921
indubitably|10 years ago
[deleted]
diecrypt|10 years ago
[deleted]
beedogs|10 years ago
whoiskevin|10 years ago
BinaryIdiot|10 years ago
The fries at In-N-Out is an interesting paradox. Without sauce they taste almost like nothing; the blandest fast food fries I've ever eaten. With sauce? It's okay. A bit too soggy for my liking but okay.
torbit|10 years ago
sneak|10 years ago
danso|10 years ago
I've used DoorDash before but not for In-N-Out...I wonder how many Stanfordians have done so, given that DoorDash is a product of Stanford graduates and of the incredibly annoying fact that In-N-Out is in the 2 nearby localities (Redwood City and Mountain View), but not Palo Alto or Menlo Park...Anyone who has been around the area know why In-N-Out hasn't managed to get a place near Stanford? This is the first California city I've lived in without its own In-N-Out. I would definitely use DoorDash for In-N-Out delivery.
UlyssesSKrunk|10 years ago