All: when commenting here, as anywhere on HN, kindly remain civil and substantive. Religious slurs are not allowed, nor are personal attacks.
We've closed this thread to noob accounts because of trolls. If you've got a new account and want to comment here, feel free to email [email protected].
I live in Paris and was spending the night in the middle of the hot zone. I was a few hundred meters from the Bataclan but fortunately the area I was in was spared. I tried to get a Uber but they were unavailable, "State of emergency, please stay home", the app said. I took a city bike home, rode about 10kms and barely saw anyone in the streets all the way home. It was really, really weird. I'm awfully sad that people can be proud of having killed a hundred innocents. I'm not afraid, I'm just terribly sad. Please stop this pointless killing.
In Paris right now. We are in shock. At both the scale and the extremely coordinated nature of the attacks on civilians at multiple locations.
I work near rue Bichat and Le Petit Cambodge, a warm little restaurant in the 10e that my colleagues and I frequent, where people were tonight killed. The Bataclan is a well-known concert venue for metal bands, where I've seen several bands play live. Les Halles is at the center of Paris. Everyone who lives here has close connections to these areas; they took place very close to our everyday lives. Even those of us fortunate enough to know that our friends are safe are reeling from what has happened.
This is the first time since the Second World War that France has declared a state of emergency.
It's too early to come to any conclusions. It's too early to talk about immediate and long-term ramifications, about connections to the refugees, how these events will make France more 'communautariste'. That time will come, but it's too early right now.
It's 2am right now, Paris is mostly awake. We mourn those who lost their lives.
You have thoughts and good wishes coming from NYC and from Texas. I'm in New York; my dad is in Texas.
My dad is a WW2 veteran. He fought on the front lines of Normandy Beach, The Battle of France, and Liege, among other places like the Battle of the Bulge.
He was housed in France by people there who welcomed and supported him. He was assisted by the underground resistance. He has an enormous amount of love for the French people that he helped liberate and who helped liberate themselves.
There was a family that took him in somewhere in the French countryside and fed him the first meal he'd had in weeks that wasn't out of a can. They cooked food, washed his clothes, and gave him some wine and a decent bed to sleep on.
My dad is 96 now, and about 10 years ago the granddaughter of that family tracked him down and sent him a letter telling him how she had always heard about this man who came there to help them. He has treasured this person ever since and stayed in touch with her.
When I talked to him on the phone tonight, he was in tears about what has happened in that country he fought so hard to protect so many years ago and the people who are experiencing what you are going through.
Best wishes to you and yours. From Texas and New York, Vive la France.
Sad. Of course. I know the French people will not be intimidated by this.
I find it sometimes asphyxiating to realize humanity has come so far and yet can devolve into baseline animal behavior at the drop of a feather. We are very far away, as a whole, from being an enlightened species.
Clearly there's a huge problem with a small percentage of people in the Islamic world. It seems obvious the "adults on the planet" could and should have the power to truly unite against this ridiculous minority and stop these lunatics cold. Now. Not in ten years. Now.
I don't know what the solution might be but it certainly isn't anywhere near appeasing or accepting them (the minority is what I am talking about). I do know it is sad and ridiculous that in the year 2015 we have to take off our shoes to get on planes and worry about getting shot in a theater or restaurant.
The repeated attacks, heavy immigration of refugees...I'm hoping for the best, but I feel like there is a powder keg here. Whether or not it is based in any fact, how this is handled and plays out is a serious concern.
That's precisely the point. Bar psychopaths, nearly everyone thinks they are doing the right thing, even as they do horrors. These people are so deeply indoctrinated that they think they are ultimately doing good in the eyes of god.
Unfortunately, the reality of the world is that many people do not adhere to this. Thus the need for strong leadership to bring those who will not co-operate kicking and screaming to the discussion table (or to eradicate them if no such discussion is possible).
My first thought about Paris is not to pray for it. It is to bring harm to those who brought the attack on the Parisians.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
This is scary. This was a well coordinated attack that usually create a lot of chatter before hand. Unlike lone wolf attacks these are somewhat easier to detect.
The French intelligence and counter terrorism units are either not doing their best or these terrorist are getting much better at covering their tracks.
How much "chatter" do you really need to coordinate something like this?
If it is a small group of just half a dozen people you should be pretty much invisible if you act a bit clever. Coordination can be done via throw away sim cards and personal meetings so you don't really need to communicate that much.
That is always what they say "we detected a of chatter so we know it was group <X>" after something like this. Perhaps the terrorists have learned not to chat/call/write as much before the act?
I don't think that's an effective attitude to take in response to events like this. The job of intelligence agencies is to minimize the risk of attacks like this, not to eliminate it. The more governments think they can actually eliminate the risk, the more we all suffer.
> This was a well coordinated attack that should have been picked up.
Should have been picked up?
You think secret services are omnipotent? That they can get a whiff of every conspiracy.
>The French intelligence and counter terrorism units are either dangerously incompetent or these terrorist are getting much better at covering their tracks.
Or, there is way, way more of them. Currently, thousands of migrants are entering Germany each day. No one is checking them, fingerprinting them, taking their photos or running those against databases.
Being a muslim in a foreign country, I confirm. I don't know why but I feel scared/guilty when something like this happens. It's sad they have to use Islam's name to do this when my interpretation (of Islam) is exactly the opposite.
There's no question that the ideology of islam - or at least the ideology of several of its sects is a critical element in these attacks. Claiming otherwise is leftist PC nonsense.
Sure there are many good muslims, most of whom you will find adhere to a secular ideology and western value system despite labelling themselves "muslim".
Unfortunately in the eyes of many that reputation could not get much lower. What is a bigger problem is that it will further divide nations regardless of reputation of a religion it will affect any and all who are perceived as either Islamic, Arabic, African, dark skinned or any combination of the above in a negative and measurable way.
If the western world starts feeling it is at war with Islam, Muslims will unite under those terrorist's banner and we're in for a very long, shitty haul.
The worse we treat Muslims in our own countries, the easier simple individuals will be to turn to the terrorist course.
If we attack a Muslim country, hordes of Muslims will travel there to fight for the Prophet.
These attacks are all desperate attempts at starting an avalanche. Don't let them play you, talk with your friends, stay calm.
My wife and I were just there for part of our honeymoon and literally flew out hours before, around noon on Friday. Some locals had talked to us about the recent attack some weeks ago and how they didn't want to let such people stop them from living their lives. This day is worse but I feel like the lovely people we talked to were determined, resilient and optimistic. God bless the city with peace.
The war on terror has been going on for 15 years now - are there more terrorists in 2000 or 2015?
Sooner or later, we will have to come to the realization that terrorism cannot be eliminated by force. Stop destabilizing Arab countries, stop imperial interference in Northern Africa, and perhaps we'll see an end to this nonsense.
Reworded to avoid offence (hopefully): deaths are not irrelevant, but their exact precise number is irrelevant. What matters is the scale of the security failure, compounded by the fact that they suffered a similar one less than a year ago and they were currently on high-alert (because they've only just started bombing Syria).
The knowledge that a network could carry out such a widespread and well-coordinated attack without being preempted, in a situation of maximum alert, will heavy on the minds of any French citizen regardless of whether victims were 118 or 119. Basically, the French security system has been revealed as completely ineffective. That is a huge problem.
Latest breakdown of fatalities available, from CNN and other sources:
114 and still rising at the Bataclan theater
19 at Le Belle Equipe bar
14 at the Cambodian restaurant
4 in the area of the Avenue de la Republique
4 outside the Stade de France (remarkably low death toll here given that there were two suicide bombers there)
Of all the wonderful and dangerous developments that technology has granted our species, I'm saddened to think that we have yet to find a pathway to the human spirit that can help reduce hatred and the impulses that result in such terrible actions. From school shootings in the US to warlords in distant lands, there's so much yet to achieve in the name of progress, for human kind. Surely, we have much to do, and as tragedies continue to befall people of all nationalities, creeds, and colors, reaching for betterment hopefully can be a goal for us all. The sun shall rise tomorrow, and I truly hope each new day is one we can use to its fullest for the pursuit of life.
ChickenInASuit8h535:
ISIS aren't really trying to "solve" anything in the countries they're attacking, the main motivation behind these attacks is to widen the rift between Islam and the West and bring more moderate Muslims over to their side
alpual7h345:
And I'm sure backlash and discrimination resulting from this attack will further alienate Muslims in France. I'm sure that's part of their intention, and I wonder why I don't see that being discussed much. Thanks for pointing that out.
French should be concerned about losing more liberties due to knee-jerk reaction from politicians wanting to "do something". Mass surveillance under the pretext of anti-terrorism.
[+] [-] dang|10 years ago|reply
We've closed this thread to noob accounts because of trolls. If you've got a new account and want to comment here, feel free to email [email protected].
[+] [-] djfm|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] livatlantis|10 years ago|reply
I work near rue Bichat and Le Petit Cambodge, a warm little restaurant in the 10e that my colleagues and I frequent, where people were tonight killed. The Bataclan is a well-known concert venue for metal bands, where I've seen several bands play live. Les Halles is at the center of Paris. Everyone who lives here has close connections to these areas; they took place very close to our everyday lives. Even those of us fortunate enough to know that our friends are safe are reeling from what has happened.
This is the first time since the Second World War that France has declared a state of emergency.
It's too early to come to any conclusions. It's too early to talk about immediate and long-term ramifications, about connections to the refugees, how these events will make France more 'communautariste'. That time will come, but it's too early right now.
It's 2am right now, Paris is mostly awake. We mourn those who lost their lives.
[+] [-] ianamartin|10 years ago|reply
My dad is a WW2 veteran. He fought on the front lines of Normandy Beach, The Battle of France, and Liege, among other places like the Battle of the Bulge.
He was housed in France by people there who welcomed and supported him. He was assisted by the underground resistance. He has an enormous amount of love for the French people that he helped liberate and who helped liberate themselves.
There was a family that took him in somewhere in the French countryside and fed him the first meal he'd had in weeks that wasn't out of a can. They cooked food, washed his clothes, and gave him some wine and a decent bed to sleep on.
My dad is 96 now, and about 10 years ago the granddaughter of that family tracked him down and sent him a letter telling him how she had always heard about this man who came there to help them. He has treasured this person ever since and stayed in touch with her.
When I talked to him on the phone tonight, he was in tears about what has happened in that country he fought so hard to protect so many years ago and the people who are experiencing what you are going through.
Best wishes to you and yours. From Texas and New York, Vive la France.
[+] [-] jewbacca|10 years ago|reply
'Eagles of Death Metal' is not a death metal band.
What they do play is eclectic and hard to label as anything more specific than "rock", but doesn't fit even a very inclusive definition of metal. See: https://www.youtube.com/user/EaglesDeathMetalVEVO/videos
[+] [-] conradk|10 years ago|reply
It was declared in 1984 and 2005. And it was declared in Algeria in the 1950s and 1960s.
[+] [-] brwr|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rebootthesystem|10 years ago|reply
I find it sometimes asphyxiating to realize humanity has come so far and yet can devolve into baseline animal behavior at the drop of a feather. We are very far away, as a whole, from being an enlightened species.
Clearly there's a huge problem with a small percentage of people in the Islamic world. It seems obvious the "adults on the planet" could and should have the power to truly unite against this ridiculous minority and stop these lunatics cold. Now. Not in ten years. Now.
I don't know what the solution might be but it certainly isn't anywhere near appeasing or accepting them (the minority is what I am talking about). I do know it is sad and ridiculous that in the year 2015 we have to take off our shoes to get on planes and worry about getting shot in a theater or restaurant.
Haven't we all had enough?
[+] [-] leothekim|10 years ago|reply
https://www.facebook.com/safetycheck/paris_terror_attacks/
[+] [-] jmspring|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] verta|10 years ago|reply
Plan multi attentats: Sudden surge of multiple situations
Plan blanc (in Île de France): surge of unpredictable activity of a hospital
Plan rouge: when there are significant casualties in a small area
[+] [-] iMark|10 years ago|reply
I despair at those who believe otherwise.
[+] [-] andrepd|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Cthulhu_|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neuro_imager|10 years ago|reply
My first thought about Paris is not to pray for it. It is to bring harm to those who brought the attack on the Parisians.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." George Orwell
[+] [-] user_0001|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rezashirazian|10 years ago|reply
The French intelligence and counter terrorism units are either not doing their best or these terrorist are getting much better at covering their tracks.
[+] [-] ThomPete|10 years ago|reply
http://sofrep.com/44480/french-and-german-police-knew-paris-...
[+] [-] yoodenvranx|10 years ago|reply
If it is a small group of just half a dozen people you should be pretty much invisible if you act a bit clever. Coordination can be done via throw away sim cards and personal meetings so you don't really need to communicate that much.
[+] [-] rdtsc|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davesque|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RogtamBar|10 years ago|reply
Should have been picked up?
You think secret services are omnipotent? That they can get a whiff of every conspiracy.
>The French intelligence and counter terrorism units are either dangerously incompetent or these terrorist are getting much better at covering their tracks.
Or, there is way, way more of them. Currently, thousands of migrants are entering Germany each day. No one is checking them, fingerprinting them, taking their photos or running those against databases.
You can find useful idiots decrying such treatment: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-crisi...
Doing so would require a lot of coercion, so no one is doing that.
My guess is that the Daeshi idiots slipped in a martyr cell or two. These guys got weapons from black market and executed a well-planned attack.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] stefantalpalaru|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cryptica|10 years ago|reply
Being a muslim in a foreign country is an increasingly difficult and isolating experience.
[+] [-] asadlionpk|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neuro_imager|10 years ago|reply
Sure there are many good muslims, most of whom you will find adhere to a secular ideology and western value system despite labelling themselves "muslim".
[+] [-] jacquesm|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Eupolemos|10 years ago|reply
If the western world starts feeling it is at war with Islam, Muslims will unite under those terrorist's banner and we're in for a very long, shitty haul.
The worse we treat Muslims in our own countries, the easier simple individuals will be to turn to the terrorist course.
If we attack a Muslim country, hordes of Muslims will travel there to fight for the Prophet.
These attacks are all desperate attempts at starting an avalanche. Don't let them play you, talk with your friends, stay calm.
[+] [-] imaginenore|10 years ago|reply
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-ameri...
[+] [-] stephenhuey|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Radim|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] littletimmy|10 years ago|reply
Sooner or later, we will have to come to the realization that terrorism cannot be eliminated by force. Stop destabilizing Arab countries, stop imperial interference in Northern Africa, and perhaps we'll see an end to this nonsense.
[+] [-] fasterthanlime|10 years ago|reply
Feel free to suggest improvements in the comments and/or request other relevant documents to be translated.
[+] [-] hardcastle|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] po1nter|10 years ago|reply
Edit: Now it's up to 140. What a sad day :(
[+] [-] toyg|10 years ago|reply
The knowledge that a network could carry out such a widespread and well-coordinated attack without being preempted, in a situation of maximum alert, will heavy on the minds of any French citizen regardless of whether victims were 118 or 119. Basically, the French security system has been revealed as completely ineffective. That is a huge problem.
[+] [-] brwr|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lnalx|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hardcastle|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vezzy-fnord|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Bud|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] laichzeit0|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blisterpeanuts|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 6stringmerc|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 131hn|10 years ago|reply
( Café, croissant, birthday party, and tonight, i'll go watch Spectre - as previously planned, because f.. them. )
[+] [-] kevindeasis|10 years ago|reply
ChickenInASuit8h535: ISIS aren't really trying to "solve" anything in the countries they're attacking, the main motivation behind these attacks is to widen the rift between Islam and the West and bring more moderate Muslims over to their side
alpual7h345: And I'm sure backlash and discrimination resulting from this attack will further alienate Muslims in France. I'm sure that's part of their intention, and I wonder why I don't see that being discussed much. Thanks for pointing that out.
[+] [-] laichzeit0|10 years ago|reply
Be alert.