It sounds like what the author is looking for is accountability. It was difficult, but I eventually found a reliable person on Craigslist to call me daily to check-in on my progress towards my goals and habits.
I had a lot of success with this and eventually started a business to make it easier for other people to sign up for daily personal check-in calls:
This is a neat project. How much did you sell the company for and how much money were you making prior to the sale? I recognise that both those questions could be invasive. A ballpark-figure is fine and I won't be offended if you decide not to answer.
I used to use Moodscope to record daily subjective ratings in some key areas, like whether I felt "strong" or "productive" or "powerless" or "scared".
The process of entering the data about myself each day actually made me significantly more depressed, because it was like a constant reminder of how depressed I was, and how the external circumstances that caused my depression weren't changing (even when I was doing all of the things I could do from my end, like exercise, see friends, listen to music, and so on).
So we should keep in mind that this sort of thing isn't a panacea. In some cases, at least, it could make things worse rather than better.
Same experience here; while attempting to isolate the factors that made for low days in order to avoid them, I instead experienced a significant increase in low days-- probably because I had to actually assess my mood.
A neutral mood, open to becoming either "good" or "bad" if not closely inspected, would invariably be categorized as "bad", and once labelled, remain that way for the rest of the day (or into the next day/sleep if recorded at night).
I've found stepping back every month or so to reflect on positive things is helpful, but doing anything with too much granularity has only encouraged self depreciating and neurotic thoughts.
If, and a big if, in a couple months you start to lose faith that you will never be able to make meaningful change to the "core" of what is leading to your depression, here is an alternative thought:
The you who you think you are "un-depressing" isn't really real. You may be largely, if not wholly, one giant movement of habit. And one key factor of habits is they don't really stand being reasoned with by your conscious mind. If you explore this and come to find it true, then the game becomes how to change habits that are not super constructive (ones you associate with depression). The game is won when you (aka your giant movement of habit) does the thing without your conscious mind ever coming into play. That's the key.
Sounds like you are having a tough time getting out of bed feeling motivated, this was my kryptonite too. Here is a superb strategy that worked for me, and works because it gets your thinking/conscious mind out of the path to success, as just described above.
Thanks for the article! Our team (Iodine) is actually doing something similar specifically for people taking antidepressants, so it's cool to see that one of your top priorities is taking your meds on time every day.
One of the main reasons we created our app, Start, is because a lot of people aren't getting enough support or info (whether from their doctors, friends or online) about how they're doing. It's super important for people to feel empowered and have the right tools to get better. Our app has daily pill reminders and check-ins to help people track their mood and how their (custom) goals and issues are holding up. Then every 2 weeks they get a progress report so they can see how they've been doing.
We're inspired by your idea and would love feedback on our app as well – you can check it out here: www.iodine.com/start. You can reach us directly at [email protected] :)
I like this approach, and am also relieved it's part of an overall strategy that included professional help.
Depression has caused serious damage to my relationships -- it causes me to experience apathy towards those I care about, irritability, aggression and self-harm. I would throw myself into my work and constantly shifting hobbies, basically anything where I didn't have the time to think about other things.
These symptoms, apparently, are fairly common in men who are experiencing depression and one of the reasons it can go undiagnosed.
This is really cool and a great idea! Do you know any psychiatrists who could help you come up with a really good list of questions to ask and things to track? I'm just a medical student but I could probably put you in touch with a good one or help you come up with questions.
Basically my thoughts are that we have some reliable screening tools for depression that have been evaluated for specificity and sensitivity... maybe questions from those could be incorporated into this. I don't think anyone has done frequent tracking of responses like this could offer.
Maybe you could even add cognitive behavioral therapy exercises?
Agreed - this is a great idea; I would try and keep it simple though. Just have an app that recorded psychological health indicators with the diagnosis and treatment left out.
There are so many approaches in psychology that with settling one particular would narrow the audience too much.
Ever heard of BoosterBuddy? It's is a free app designed to help teens and young adults improve their mental health.
While I can't comment on the efficacy of using apps for mental health, the idea is currently being done by the Vancouver Island Health Authority, here in British Columbia. The development was done through engaging with youth and health professionals.
While this isn't targeted at adults, something similar may work!
This is great, and I am very happy he also makes it very clear that anyone suffering depression (or any other mental health issue) should see a professional.
The stigma associated with getting professional mental health help can't go away fast enough.
Just ignore me if you were joking, but do I have a serious question about exactly this. I've considered doing something like this for myself. Not an app, but I thought I might wrap my credit card in a bit of cardboard that says "Wait! Think! What are you doing?" as a speed bump against my compulsive spending.
Does this actually work for you? Do you open the app and it says "Don't drink, fuckface." and you're like "oh, right, OK. I won't." Or do you just blow right past it? I used to work in a shop with gruesome safety posters on the wall at work but after a couple of weeks, I stopped noticing them. I figure this would turn out to be something like that.
I run a side project called http://moodpanda.com , people rate their mood an a simple scale and other members give feedback, I think the feeback is what keeps people coming back to our app, not the rating part but the feedback they get from others.
I have built something similar, but don't have it configured to do quite the same things, although it certainly could. It's more a generic platform that these kinds of things could happen if you configured them to, so it could work for individuals as well as companies, for example. But I don't have a support structure in place that will come to my rescue when i'm feeling blue. It's just me, my emotions and my behavior.
A lot of people find benefit in quantification; I do not. While I have my house wired with doorbells that correlate to todos in my app so it knows when i have/have not done something; its really my own psychology or philosophy that has the biggest impact on when I do something. Everything else is more for management.
This is a really interesting case study. I'd encourage you to continue to document it and share it widely. The fact that you aren't trying to do it all through the app, but that the app is part of the support network is very cool. Thanks for sharing this!
"For me, depression is caused by a lack of productivity".
It is beyond me that such a statement can be expressed seriously. I strongly suggest the author look beyond "I'm not working hard enough" as the key reason for his mental illness.
As someone that can sympathize with the author on a number of levels, this is a tremendously insensitive comment - I wouldn't expect to see such glibness with regard to someone's mental health posted on this site of all places.
First, note that he said "for me" - you don't and can't know what makes him tick better than he does, full stop.
Second, I can tell you with complete certainty that realizing that you're not getting shit done is a legitimate initiator (both to me, and apparently the author) of a spiraling cascade of negative thoughts that lead to feeling useless and terrible - and once that mood has been achieved, pulling yourself out of it takes either massive amounts of willpower (a limited thing) or a mental reset of some kind (sleep, chemicals, really deep meditation).
It sucks. It really, really, sucks. Please think more carefully before remarking in this way in the future.
--
All that said. I kind of had an idea like this a while ago[1], but never thought to mate it with a system that actually pings friends for help! Quite clever, and more importantly, it appears to work.
With respect, I think we should take the patient point of view more seriously than our own (us not having examined the patient or more damningly, not having any training in psychiatry). Lack of productivity can on occasion lead to a feeling of worthlessness which can exacerbate depression.
They might mean to say that it's worsened when they're not busy with something. Actively working on a task that one finds rewarding can definitely help with depression.
I believe you misread or failed to read the rest of the paragraph. The author makes it clear this isn't just work.
I feel similar to the author's statement. Coding is my thing. In general, I really like most of my work. When I have writer's (coder's) block, it really, really, sucks. Right now, for instance, I'm sitting on some dynamite info and just need to polish up a proof of concept to show of some fun stuff. I even have clients 100% ready to pay for things if I can show POC. Yet several of these things have sitting around, somewhat planned or partially started, for months. That feeds back to itself and makes me feel worse.
And again, this doesn't mean just work.. Some of these things are things I'd do for no compensation at all, but purely for the fun of them. Being burned out and not wanting to do the stuff I want to do, thinking the one passion I'm competent at is slipping away - that's depressing and scary. And some of the stuff I want to do, like family related things, they suffer too, and those aren't even software-related, let alone work.
Your Web App sounds interesting. Though I wonder if it is just helping to manage the symptons rather than addressing the source of the depression. Procrastination may be a sympton and not the cause of depression.
Unfortunately, for many people mental illness and depression is a result of very real chemical imbalances in the brain. Also, for other people letting go of a toxic relationship or unhappy marriage miraculously cures depression.
Natural processes are the best way to cure depression. I battled depression for years, and I am so grateful that I managed to fight that daemon off.
For anyone suffering from depression,
I recommend something that has helped me a lot. It is James Gordon’s system at http://lookingupstuff.com/mentalhealth/2015/02/06/how-to-des...
He is a former depression sufferer, and teaches a totally natural 7 step process which relieves depression from your life.
Wow. Thank you all for your time and words. I've had a great amount of responses both here and on Medium and I've had a huge amount of people emailing me directly - presumably because of the sensitive nature of the subject.
For these reason, instead of replying to every comment right now I will write a follow up post which discussions much of the feedback, suggestions, alternatives and offers of help. I hope that you will read it.
I will however then come back and reply to specifics here and respond to every email.
Thanks a lot for your support and stay strong if you're in a low position. Try to find solace in the fact that you aren't alone.
The author's approach is brilliant in that it exists at a layer above the productivity tools and techniques themselves, to check if they're being employed effectively (if at all).
I can also relate to his experience. Momentum is everything.
Getting into a productive state is hard, and once you start losing momentum, the deceleration tends to snowball. Next thing you know, you have no momentum, and depression is there waiting to pick you apart like a vulture. Becoming productive again is now harder because you're depressed from not being productive. It's a vicious cycle that feeds into itself.
Coincidentally, just the other day I was looking in the PlayStore for apps that dispense small 1-4 sentence quanta of mood-altering advice based on the user's reported state of mind. I couldn't find any. I'm considering writing something simple of this nature. Question: does such a thing exist and if not, is it a worthwhile exercise at all?
Look at ginger.io -- their cognitive behavior therapy has been shown to be statistically significant. It's what you're looking for either now or in a future version of their app.
[+] [-] stephenbez|10 years ago|reply
I had a lot of success with this and eventually started a business to make it easier for other people to sign up for daily personal check-in calls:
http://www.personalcheckin.com/
(I later sold the company when I realized the difficulty of scaling up phone calls, though I still am a happy client!)
[+] [-] avnfish|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] p4wnc6|10 years ago|reply
The process of entering the data about myself each day actually made me significantly more depressed, because it was like a constant reminder of how depressed I was, and how the external circumstances that caused my depression weren't changing (even when I was doing all of the things I could do from my end, like exercise, see friends, listen to music, and so on).
So we should keep in mind that this sort of thing isn't a panacea. In some cases, at least, it could make things worse rather than better.
[+] [-] neverknowsbest|10 years ago|reply
A neutral mood, open to becoming either "good" or "bad" if not closely inspected, would invariably be categorized as "bad", and once labelled, remain that way for the rest of the day (or into the next day/sleep if recorded at night).
I've found stepping back every month or so to reflect on positive things is helpful, but doing anything with too much granularity has only encouraged self depreciating and neurotic thoughts.
[+] [-] double0jimb0|10 years ago|reply
Might want to add a "Burns Depression Checklist" questionnaire to your daily polling, it's a single number that will reflect mood, easier for charting and trend analysis: http://healingheartscc.com/docs/first_steps/FS_DepressionQui...
If, and a big if, in a couple months you start to lose faith that you will never be able to make meaningful change to the "core" of what is leading to your depression, here is an alternative thought:
The you who you think you are "un-depressing" isn't really real. You may be largely, if not wholly, one giant movement of habit. And one key factor of habits is they don't really stand being reasoned with by your conscious mind. If you explore this and come to find it true, then the game becomes how to change habits that are not super constructive (ones you associate with depression). The game is won when you (aka your giant movement of habit) does the thing without your conscious mind ever coming into play. That's the key.
Sounds like you are having a tough time getting out of bed feeling motivated, this was my kryptonite too. Here is a superb strategy that worked for me, and works because it gets your thinking/conscious mind out of the path to success, as just described above.
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/04/how-to-get-up-right...
Hope helps!
[+] [-] kr4|10 years ago|reply
You may wish to check that out. Extensive reading on Yogic prospective of depression, involving body, consciousness and soul.
[+] [-] continents|10 years ago|reply
One of the main reasons we created our app, Start, is because a lot of people aren't getting enough support or info (whether from their doctors, friends or online) about how they're doing. It's super important for people to feel empowered and have the right tools to get better. Our app has daily pill reminders and check-ins to help people track their mood and how their (custom) goals and issues are holding up. Then every 2 weeks they get a progress report so they can see how they've been doing.
We're inspired by your idea and would love feedback on our app as well – you can check it out here: www.iodine.com/start. You can reach us directly at [email protected] :)
[+] [-] weee_username|10 years ago|reply
Depression has caused serious damage to my relationships -- it causes me to experience apathy towards those I care about, irritability, aggression and self-harm. I would throw myself into my work and constantly shifting hobbies, basically anything where I didn't have the time to think about other things.
These symptoms, apparently, are fairly common in men who are experiencing depression and one of the reasons it can go undiagnosed.
[+] [-] joshmn|10 years ago|reply
I think that part is the most key to success for this type of strategy.
[+] [-] et2o|10 years ago|reply
Basically my thoughts are that we have some reliable screening tools for depression that have been evaluated for specificity and sensitivity... maybe questions from those could be incorporated into this. I don't think anyone has done frequent tracking of responses like this could offer.
Maybe you could even add cognitive behavioral therapy exercises?
[+] [-] chvid|10 years ago|reply
There are so many approaches in psychology that with settling one particular would narrow the audience too much.
[+] [-] rsingla|10 years ago|reply
While I can't comment on the efficacy of using apps for mental health, the idea is currently being done by the Vancouver Island Health Authority, here in British Columbia. The development was done through engaging with youth and health professionals.
While this isn't targeted at adults, something similar may work!
[+] [-] codezero|10 years ago|reply
The stigma associated with getting professional mental health help can't go away fast enough.
[+] [-] LordHumungous|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wicker|10 years ago|reply
Does this actually work for you? Do you open the app and it says "Don't drink, fuckface." and you're like "oh, right, OK. I won't." Or do you just blow right past it? I used to work in a shop with gruesome safety posters on the wall at work but after a couple of weeks, I stopped noticing them. I figure this would turn out to be something like that.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] scythe|10 years ago|reply
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/bas...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder
Please don't guess at remembering something you read on buzzfeed.
[+] [-] rosspanda|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] meesterdude|10 years ago|reply
A lot of people find benefit in quantification; I do not. While I have my house wired with doorbells that correlate to todos in my app so it knows when i have/have not done something; its really my own psychology or philosophy that has the biggest impact on when I do something. Everything else is more for management.
[+] [-] sharp11|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hightechlowlife|10 years ago|reply
It is beyond me that such a statement can be expressed seriously. I strongly suggest the author look beyond "I'm not working hard enough" as the key reason for his mental illness.
[+] [-] Karunamon|10 years ago|reply
First, note that he said "for me" - you don't and can't know what makes him tick better than he does, full stop.
Second, I can tell you with complete certainty that realizing that you're not getting shit done is a legitimate initiator (both to me, and apparently the author) of a spiraling cascade of negative thoughts that lead to feeling useless and terrible - and once that mood has been achieved, pulling yourself out of it takes either massive amounts of willpower (a limited thing) or a mental reset of some kind (sleep, chemicals, really deep meditation).
It sucks. It really, really, sucks. Please think more carefully before remarking in this way in the future.
--
All that said. I kind of had an idea like this a while ago[1], but never thought to mate it with a system that actually pings friends for help! Quite clever, and more importantly, it appears to work.
[1]: https://tkware.info/tsas/
[+] [-] hliyan|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] doomrobo|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MichaelGG|10 years ago|reply
I feel similar to the author's statement. Coding is my thing. In general, I really like most of my work. When I have writer's (coder's) block, it really, really, sucks. Right now, for instance, I'm sitting on some dynamite info and just need to polish up a proof of concept to show of some fun stuff. I even have clients 100% ready to pay for things if I can show POC. Yet several of these things have sitting around, somewhat planned or partially started, for months. That feeds back to itself and makes me feel worse.
And again, this doesn't mean just work.. Some of these things are things I'd do for no compensation at all, but purely for the fun of them. Being burned out and not wanting to do the stuff I want to do, thinking the one passion I'm competent at is slipping away - that's depressing and scary. And some of the stuff I want to do, like family related things, they suffer too, and those aren't even software-related, let alone work.
[+] [-] scottrogers|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DanieBowman|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amelius|10 years ago|reply
If depression can be cured with information alone, this information should be freely available on the internet!
[+] [-] stuffaboutpete|10 years ago|reply
For these reason, instead of replying to every comment right now I will write a follow up post which discussions much of the feedback, suggestions, alternatives and offers of help. I hope that you will read it.
I will however then come back and reply to specifics here and respond to every email.
Thanks a lot for your support and stay strong if you're in a low position. Try to find solace in the fact that you aren't alone.
[+] [-] rl3|10 years ago|reply
I can also relate to his experience. Momentum is everything.
Getting into a productive state is hard, and once you start losing momentum, the deceleration tends to snowball. Next thing you know, you have no momentum, and depression is there waiting to pick you apart like a vulture. Becoming productive again is now harder because you're depressed from not being productive. It's a vicious cycle that feeds into itself.
[+] [-] blairanderson|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hliyan|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] azinman2|10 years ago|reply