Edit: After a bunch of clicking around, I realized I have to initiate an order to figure that out. And I need to provide material, thickness, X*Y dimensions, path length, and a couple of extras to get to hopefully get an estimate.
My feedback: please give me some pricing examples early on. Make it prominent on the start page. Like photos of 2-3 objects, what they cost to make, and what their respective parameters are.
Your comments and experience are very appreciated. As another user pointed this out too, we'll prepare a small example list to be easier to understand pricing.
We are practically focusing on quality but we are doing our best to keep costs low for everyone.
Yes, where's the pricing? And where's the list of available materials and thicknesses? These no-information sites that want you to sign up before finding out anything are seriously annoying.
eMachineShop has offered a similar service for years.[1] But they offer a much wider range of services, and their one-off prices tend to be higher. This new service seems to be aimed more at non-functional decorative stuff.
After several months of fine-tuning our process, we are launching today as Lasergist. Lasergist is easy laser cutting for designers, engineers and anyone who can use Adobe Illustrator or Autocad. And we managed to make it cheap. AND provide free worldwide shipping. And it's 100% made in europe by Japan-made lasers (Mazak) and German/Swedish Stainless Steel.
We are launching with a special 30% discount for HN! Just use the coupon HNSPECIAL
Just a thought, but maybe it'd be nice to allow people to (optionally of course) mark their uploads as "OK for public use" – using a CC license or something. This way other visitors can see and maybe choose from a gallery of earlier designs. Even nicer would be if people could get a small discount in return…
Great work, I've hoped for a website like yours to come out! Like others I've used Big Blue Saw but it's fairly expensive. I recently got parts cut locally (laser cut steel, 16ga) and it's around 20-25$/part (30$/part shipped locally).
From what I can gather from your site for others to reference:
- free shipping anywhere
- 300x300 max size
- 1.5mm: 18.09$ per sheet + 6.96$/1000mm of path length
- 2mm: 22.95$ per sheet + 7.87$/1000mm of path length
- 3mm: 32.97$ per sheet + 9.90$/1000mm of path length
By the way, those prices, per sheet are less than mcmaster sells!!
Only things I would add:
1- add a stainless steel PCB Stencil service (very thin - 0.125mm, but may be not accurate enough?)
2- change max dimensions to 500x300mm (increase of 200mm on one dimension) or 432x300mm (so it would fit in 11x17" envelope).
I mention this because I think I see a revolution coming (laser cut steel sheet) for robotics, 3d printer designs, etc as the manufacturing costs will be so low it does not make sense to buy the raw materials and mill/drill yourself.
This is great, and the site is beautiful! I'll probably use it in the future for crafty/technical projects. A few questions:
1. I understand the cost is probably based on many factors, like bounding box size, laser time, and material, but it would be helpful to see a table of example items on the home page and their final costs (just to have a ballpark idea of what it would cost to make something of a given size/complexity). For the estimator/order form, why do I need to specify the bounding box size and path length myself? Shouldn't that be inferred from the drawings I upload? All that said, the prices are amazing!
2. Do you ship to the US? If so, does that cost extra?
3. Can you cut steel thinner than 1mm? It would be VERY useful to be able to make steel foil templates for reflow soldering. Such templates act as masks to control the application of solder, and they vary in thickness depending on the application but are most commonly 0.1mm to 0.2mm in thickness. Made by specialty firms, such templates can cost hundreds of dollars. A DIY option would be wonderful.
4. Can you make parts <50mm^2?
5. Your cut edges probably look great. It would be nice to see macro photos of some cut edges to know what sort of quality to expect.
6. What are the tolerances of cut parts?
7. Have you considered merging some of the pages, like the home page and the Discover page? Possibly the design guidelines page? I had to click around quite a bit to answer some other questions I had.
1) This is what another user commented too - having some examples - we'll definitely create a few asap. And regarding the auto-estimation, developing an automated cost-estimating thing would really raise our costs. Let's hope lasergist becomes better and larger soon, and this is number one feature to be developed!
2. Yes we do at no extra cost. And it usually takes no more than a week to arrive to east coast.
3. This sounds like a great idea to try out. With our cutting lasers no, we cannot do this because of heat. But the engraving lasers might be able to do this easily. I'll get back to you about this.
4. Yes - but we wouldn't be very happy to say it nicely. The reason is that too small parts will fall from the honeycomb flatbed and will require some digging below...
Just noticed there is a 5, a 6 and a 7!!
5. The micro drone on discover page is just 2" x 2" you probably see it 2x on your screen! But this is a nice tip from a marketing point of view.
6. 0.01mm is the laser spec!
7. You must be the largest fan of one-page designs! Lasergist.com has just 3 pages - but i can understand what you mean!
This is a great idea and I wish you guys success, I really do.
I just hope your margins are high enough, or you're doing this on the side your company's main business, because your prices seem extremely low to me. (Also, Mazak over Trumpf?)
I worked for a while (albeit approximately ten years ago now, but still) for a custom fab shop that did a lot of custom business with lasers (for industry, not consumer, generally), and I have a fair idea of the cost of lasers, the stainless you're using, and probable cost of development for the software toolchain you put together for this. And I hope you're using something like SigmaNEST or ProNest and not just chunking down rectangles for your parts, because that would help your costs considerably. It sounds like, from your description, that you are, and that you're using cutouts from other parts to do it, which will hopefully help your costs.
And I would be worried about high-rework costs or low customer satisfaction due to heat issues from people who don't understand laser, or hole locations, etc, etc, etc?
But you probably have already thought of all this, and don't need a random internet commenter to bring it all up. I had wanted to do something like this when I worked at the custom fab shop, but I didn't have the time to develop the toolchain necessary to do it all in 2005-7, so I guess I'm a little jealous.
Thank you russnewcomer! Trumpf are great, based on our experience (~10 years owning and operating several lasers) Mazak have proven to be really reliable and really low-cost in operating kW + maintenance. That's why we kept the Mazaks. Of course we are using a nesting program that's been leaving something close to 200-300 grams. per stainless steel sheet - and this is the core of our low cost.
We tried to explain it as much as possible and give a couple of rules that would save a lot of people from the high heat stuff. It looks that you know a lot regarding lasers and you are more than welcome to stay in touch!
What are the tolerances and surface quality? More importantly, what do they depend on? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10691293 asked this already and you didn't answer, but this is the #1 most important issue for whether this is a useful service for other than decorative purposes.
Yeap - i noticed that I didn't reply like 10 min ago.
The tolerances based on the laser specs are 0.01mm. It is in essence extremely precise. Regarding the surface quality I think that a few photos would be the greatest way to showcase it. What is important to understand is that we are providing industrial level parts + quality, but we do this through a process that is easy for designers, engineers and people unfamiliar with laser cutting. Definitely not just "decorative"..
On a non-retina screen, the font weight of 100 looks not so great. I'd recommend to use a media query to check the DPI.
When I saw "Discover" I expected some examples. Your product is intriguing, but I don't think there are that many people that will go "Oh, now I can finally make <insert object>". HAving some examples would be a great way to show what can be done and inspire your customers.
In fact, there is a media query checking for this and changing the font weight to 300. Actually it makes it 100 for retina screens. It's tested and works in several devices - let's check if there is any error in loading the 300 font weight from google fonts though - thanks for the tip.
Your comment on examples is very correct and we've been advised at least 3 more times here; we are definitely doing this soon! Thank you again for your comments.
I think shapeways nailed it by having also a gallery so people who don't know how to design can buy cool stuff. That's something I haven't really found for now in laser cutting/engraving, a good gallery.
Also interested in sample pricing, would also like to see some sample designs. This would be really cool to do logos for doors etc at engineering and design firms.
How about where it says path length maybe provide the help hint actually show how you can get it from illustrator or inkscape or wherever else you think customers are working from. I've been using vector software for 15 years and I don't think I've ever looked at path length in properties. I'm in the info palette right now with a couple small paths selected, is a plugin required for that information?
I've used BigBlueSaw as well as some local makerspaces for my waterjet and lasercut needs in the past, and I've been happy with their services. Where does your business fit within that marketplace? Is your advantage pure cost (which I'm impressed with by the way, a $12 shipped part is ridiculous)
Seems like they have much smaller limits on part size compared to big blue saw. Seems like they are mostly targetting hobbyist/art stuff. 300mmx300mm is too large a limitation for bulk work.
With the size and capabilities of your laser, I'd strongly advise looking into the jewelry making market. There's a lot we can't do at Big Blue Saw because we're using waterjet or low-powered laser. I'm not sure what materials you can cut, but look into copper, brass, silver, etc.
Thank you very much for this recommendation. At the moment we're only doing stainless steel, as this is the main material we focus on, have developed finishing techniques and in general, this is the material we are most experienced in. I can easily see jewellery being made of Stainless Steel though. Just drop as a line at [email protected] - maybe we can discuss on the jewellery market!
I have no idea what I'd make with this, but knowing I could have something made this way is awesome :)
Minor grammatical error: "How it works?" is not valid English. Instead this could be "How it works:", "How it works" (with the colon implied) or "How does it work?"
Could you help me out ? How to fill the informations before uploading the files, if they are compatible ? I'm quite a beginner with these software and I only use linux distro... However I'm eager to learn.
Also, how will I/you make sure the tree is not too fragile ?
From the Discover page: "Every year our lasers travel about 2 million kilometers."
That calculates to 228 km/h, which seems impossible, unless you are reporting the total distance travelled by all your lasers added together. However, the wording you chose implies that each laser travels that distance individually. Compare: "Every day the cells in your body travel about 2 billion kilometers". This statement sounds very strange, but is technically correct (more or less) if you add up the distances travelled by each cell.
Imagine a world where, after prototyping something locally on your glowforge, you are then presented with a "order this from lasergist" single-click ordering button :)
So here is something I want to happen in the future:
You create a CAD design in some open source language making use of parametrised component libraries. You then dispatch the manufacture, assembly and delivery to providers that specify their capabilities via an API, the final product is delivered to your doorstep.
This service is one step towards this, but ideally eventually almost everything would be automated away.
Is this engraving position registration tolerance correct, or a typo? If +/- 3 mm is correct, then it would certainly rule it out for my application (control panels)
[+] [-] johansch|10 years ago|reply
Edit: After a bunch of clicking around, I realized I have to initiate an order to figure that out. And I need to provide material, thickness, X*Y dimensions, path length, and a couple of extras to get to hopefully get an estimate.
My feedback: please give me some pricing examples early on. Make it prominent on the start page. Like photos of 2-3 objects, what they cost to make, and what their respective parameters are.
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
Your comments and experience are very appreciated. As another user pointed this out too, we'll prepare a small example list to be easier to understand pricing.
We are practically focusing on quality but we are doing our best to keep costs low for everyone.
[+] [-] Animats|10 years ago|reply
eMachineShop has offered a similar service for years.[1] But they offer a much wider range of services, and their one-off prices tend to be higher. This new service seems to be aimed more at non-functional decorative stuff.
[1] http://www.emachineshop.com/machine-shop/Laser-Cutting-Servi...
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
We are launching with a special 30% discount for HN! Just use the coupon HNSPECIAL
[+] [-] nona|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swah|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LeeUmm|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] matmann2001|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonnycowboy|10 years ago|reply
- 1.5mm: 18.09$ per sheet + 6.96$/1000mm of path length
- 2mm: 22.95$ per sheet + 7.87$/1000mm of path length
- 3mm: 32.97$ per sheet + 9.90$/1000mm of path length
By the way, those prices, per sheet are less than mcmaster sells!!
Only things I would add: 1- add a stainless steel PCB Stencil service (very thin - 0.125mm, but may be not accurate enough?) 2- change max dimensions to 500x300mm (increase of 200mm on one dimension) or 432x300mm (so it would fit in 11x17" envelope).
[+] [-] jonnycowboy|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomkinstinch|10 years ago|reply
1. I understand the cost is probably based on many factors, like bounding box size, laser time, and material, but it would be helpful to see a table of example items on the home page and their final costs (just to have a ballpark idea of what it would cost to make something of a given size/complexity). For the estimator/order form, why do I need to specify the bounding box size and path length myself? Shouldn't that be inferred from the drawings I upload? All that said, the prices are amazing!
2. Do you ship to the US? If so, does that cost extra?
3. Can you cut steel thinner than 1mm? It would be VERY useful to be able to make steel foil templates for reflow soldering. Such templates act as masks to control the application of solder, and they vary in thickness depending on the application but are most commonly 0.1mm to 0.2mm in thickness. Made by specialty firms, such templates can cost hundreds of dollars. A DIY option would be wonderful.
4. Can you make parts <50mm^2?
5. Your cut edges probably look great. It would be nice to see macro photos of some cut edges to know what sort of quality to expect.
6. What are the tolerances of cut parts?
7. Have you considered merging some of the pages, like the home page and the Discover page? Possibly the design guidelines page? I had to click around quite a bit to answer some other questions I had.
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
1) This is what another user commented too - having some examples - we'll definitely create a few asap. And regarding the auto-estimation, developing an automated cost-estimating thing would really raise our costs. Let's hope lasergist becomes better and larger soon, and this is number one feature to be developed!
2. Yes we do at no extra cost. And it usually takes no more than a week to arrive to east coast.
3. This sounds like a great idea to try out. With our cutting lasers no, we cannot do this because of heat. But the engraving lasers might be able to do this easily. I'll get back to you about this.
4. Yes - but we wouldn't be very happy to say it nicely. The reason is that too small parts will fall from the honeycomb flatbed and will require some digging below...
[+] [-] HeyLaughingBoy|10 years ago|reply
No affiliation, just a happy customer.
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
6. 0.01mm is the laser spec!
7. You must be the largest fan of one-page designs! Lasergist.com has just 3 pages - but i can understand what you mean!
[+] [-] russnewcomer|10 years ago|reply
I just hope your margins are high enough, or you're doing this on the side your company's main business, because your prices seem extremely low to me. (Also, Mazak over Trumpf?)
I worked for a while (albeit approximately ten years ago now, but still) for a custom fab shop that did a lot of custom business with lasers (for industry, not consumer, generally), and I have a fair idea of the cost of lasers, the stainless you're using, and probable cost of development for the software toolchain you put together for this. And I hope you're using something like SigmaNEST or ProNest and not just chunking down rectangles for your parts, because that would help your costs considerably. It sounds like, from your description, that you are, and that you're using cutouts from other parts to do it, which will hopefully help your costs.
And I would be worried about high-rework costs or low customer satisfaction due to heat issues from people who don't understand laser, or hole locations, etc, etc, etc?
But you probably have already thought of all this, and don't need a random internet commenter to bring it all up. I had wanted to do something like this when I worked at the custom fab shop, but I didn't have the time to develop the toolchain necessary to do it all in 2005-7, so I guess I'm a little jealous.
Good luck!
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
We tried to explain it as much as possible and give a couple of rules that would save a lot of people from the high heat stuff. It looks that you know a lot regarding lasers and you are more than welcome to stay in touch!
Jim
[+] [-] kragen|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
The tolerances based on the laser specs are 0.01mm. It is in essence extremely precise. Regarding the surface quality I think that a few photos would be the greatest way to showcase it. What is important to understand is that we are providing industrial level parts + quality, but we do this through a process that is easy for designers, engineers and people unfamiliar with laser cutting. Definitely not just "decorative"..
[+] [-] Pranz|10 years ago|reply
When I saw "Discover" I expected some examples. Your product is intriguing, but I don't think there are that many people that will go "Oh, now I can finally make <insert object>". HAving some examples would be a great way to show what can be done and inspire your customers.
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
Your comment on examples is very correct and we've been advised at least 3 more times here; we are definitely doing this soon! Thank you again for your comments.
[+] [-] chromaton|10 years ago|reply
If you want other materials and thicknesses, try us out at http://www.bigbluesaw.com/ . For prices see http://www.bigbluesaw.com/examples .
[+] [-] Buetol|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] patrickfl|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaelbuddy|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
Just open DOCUMENT INFO palette, select object from the drop down and select your paths. The path length will be shown on that palette.
[+] [-] Zanta|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Caprinicus|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chromaton|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chromaton|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dysfunction|10 years ago|reply
Minor grammatical error: "How it works?" is not valid English. Instead this could be "How it works:", "How it works" (with the colon implied) or "How does it work?"
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zilian|10 years ago|reply
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:359145
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:389075
Could you help me out ? How to fill the informations before uploading the files, if they are compatible ? I'm quite a beginner with these software and I only use linux distro... However I'm eager to learn.
Also, how will I/you make sure the tree is not too fragile ?
Thanks !
[+] [-] thoughtpalette|10 years ago|reply
https://www.heroforge.com/ is one I dig as well.
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Ruphin|10 years ago|reply
That calculates to 228 km/h, which seems impossible, unless you are reporting the total distance travelled by all your lasers added together. However, the wording you chose implies that each laser travels that distance individually. Compare: "Every day the cells in your body travel about 2 billion kilometers". This statement sounds very strange, but is technically correct (more or less) if you add up the distances travelled by each cell.
Still a cool factoid though :)
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cellularmitosis|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] orbifold|10 years ago|reply
This service is one step towards this, but ideally eventually almost everything would be automated away.
[+] [-] jimant|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vibrolax|10 years ago|reply
Is this engraving position registration tolerance correct, or a typo? If +/- 3 mm is correct, then it would certainly rule it out for my application (control panels)
[+] [-] anoother|10 years ago|reply