I find the claims that P&G makes to be interesting, because unless something has changed, Dollar Shave Club does not actually produce or manufacture under license any of its own products, rather the service is about the delivery and cost mechanism, not the actual product received. Instead, they use products made by Dorco, a South Korean company, http://www.dorcousa.com/.
The 4X, for instance is the same as the Dorco Pace 4 blade system, including compatibility between the cartridges/handles. I think Dollar Shave Club may provide unique handles, but the razor blade cartridges themselves are made by Dorco.
> Patent infringement is the act of making, using, selling, or offering to sell a patented invention, or importing into the United States a product covered by a claim of a patent without the permission of the patent owner. Further, you may be considered to infringe a patent if you import items into the United States that are made by a patented method, unless the item is materially changed by subsequent processes or becomes a trivial and nonessential component of another product. A person “infringes” a patent by practicing each element of a patent claim with respect to one of these acts. Further, actively encouraging others to infringe patents, or supplying or importing components of a patented invention, and related acts can also give rise to liability in certain cases.
(If you think about it, of course importing is infringement. Otherwise, patents are worthless: anything patented would simply be made overseas, if they aren't already.)
On a related note, it's cheaper (per cartridge) to just buy from Dorco directly. I buy the Pace 4 cartridges in bulk.
It's a solid product, at a great price, with excellent customer service. I recently had a package lost by USPS (they got confused because someone had forwarded mail to my address), and after a single email to Dorco, they sent out a replacement order (despite the fact that they had nothing to do with the original package getting lost).
It is extremely telling that Gillette is suing Dollar Shave Club, a direct competitor, rather than Dorco the actual manufacturer of the blades themselves.
DSC is actually just a blade reseller, so suing them for patent infringement seems odd. Until you consider that this whole lawsuit may be part of a larger drive to either push DSC out of business or buy them out of business, in either case the cost of the lawsuit will contribute.
PS - As an aside I don't think Dorco's blades are as good as Gillette's blades yet. However I highly welcome a more competitive landscape in the cartridge blade market.
If Dorco is manufacturing out side of the US or anywhere that P&G's patent is valid and not selling them into a valid country P&G can't really sue Dorco. At that point Dorco isn't violating anything it's the company that imports them that is the first point something is really being violated.
I assume by "old fashioned" you mean a safety razor, not a straight razor.
Safety razors are indeniably cheaper long term (although expect to pay $100 ish to get a good handle, brush, bowl, blades, and soap). You'll likely break even after ten years (assuming $1.50 cartridges Vs. 10c blades). You'll also likely receive a closer shave with a safety razor.
That being said... I did the whole safety razor thing. It was fun. But then I switched back to cartridges. Why? In order to get a good close shave with a safety razor while also minimizing the chance of nicks, cuts, and razor burn you need a good quality thick lather.
Unfortunately creating a good thick lather can easily take ten minutes. You cannot really use off the shelf shaving foam or gel because it doesn't provide enough protection for a safety razor.
So ultimately I decided I wanted shaving to be a 10 minute activity in the mornings, and not a 20 minute activity. Also creating lather isn't the most fun thing to do first thing after you wake up, in particular if you're working it hard (as you should).
Cartridges are quick and easy. They're the ultimate lazy man's solution. And you can use off the shelf non-foaming gels (e.g. "King of Shaves Alphagel", "Gillette Fusion ProGlide Clear Shave Gel") in the shower (and, yes, wet-shaves are a must either way, buy an inexpensive non-electrical anti-condensation travel mirror (i.e. you tip hot water into a compartment behind the mirror)).
As someone with a coarse beard, safety razors are the only way to go. A safety razor blade from feather lasts 2-3 shaves, while one of those 4/5 blade things from gillette clogs fast, and dulls completely before 1 shave is over. Safety razors really don't clog, and they're much cheaper.
When I shave (which is not often, aside from the neckbeard), I use an old, inherited Schick Injector[1]. I bought a batch of blades years ago on Amazon from Germany for a few bucks and haven't used them up yet - they never seem to actually get dull, so I just replace them when they start to rust.
Never really understood the purpose of shaving cream - hot water has always been plenty effective enough, and any type of soap or lather or cream makes a mess and leaves my skin oily.
I have a suspicion that, like women's cosmetics, hair shampoo, and neckties, shaving customs solely exist to vacuum money out of people's wallets and be inconvenient.
I stopped getting razor burn when I switched from disposables to a safety razor, and it's no less convenient. My main complaint was the high up-front cost for the razor but I'm now seeing starter kits in Wal-mart in the $20 range which IIRC included razor, blades, brush, and soap.
I just started laser hair removal on my face, and at $100/session for 2-6 sessions, it'll pay for itself in 1-3 years (I use a fresh blade every week). Plus no shadow/stubble.
it is valid but it is just being used to run them out of business. The actual patent violator is Dorco but they are a foreign company and it would be pointless to sue them. Dollar shave club is merely importing patent infringing razors into the US. But patent law allows you to sue anyone who imports patent infringing materials which makes sense because it can be hard to identify the factory doing the patent infringing but the importer is easy to identify but in this case it is clear who the manufacturer is but it is more useful to sue their competitor than to go after the factory
I find it slightly amusing when journalists call companies like Dollar Shave Club an "upstart". It paints this picture that they're this small scrappy startup when in fact they've raised $163M, founded in 2011 and air prime time commercials. But as compared to P&G's market cap of $220B, I get it, they're small potatoes.
I use two blades to shave - start with a "quality" blade (not Gillette) and finish with a cheaper disposable. It extends the life of both and gives me a very clean shave. I estimate that it's cut my blade costs in half since ditching Gillette. Oh, and don't forget the inexpensive Barbasol.
Have you ever tried using a safety razor? The blades cost pennies. I also find I get substantially less razor burn. Switching to shaving soap instead of aerosol cream keeps my total shaving cost to <$10/year.
I hadn't heard of DSC before and wish it was available in Europe. Would be interested to know how much of a streisand effect they are experiencing. And given the season that's in it, a year's subscription to this would make a handy gift.
All of this would be moot if people would just grow a beard and discover all the awesomeness that comes with it! Most of all you don't have to shave anymore!
I still shave my neck and it takes at least as long as shaving my face used to, because creating/maintaining a clean neckline takes longer than just shaving it off. I find it unattractive (and itchy) to have the beard grow down my neck as far as it wants to naturally.
> Patent infringement is the act of making, using, selling, or offering to sell a patented invention, or importing into the United States a product covered by a claim of a patent without the permission of the patent owner. Further, you may be considered to infringe a patent if you import items into the United States that are made by a patented method, unless the item is materially changed by subsequent processes or becomes a trivial and nonessential component of another product. A person “infringes” a patent by practicing each element of a patent claim with respect to one of these acts. Further, actively encouraging others to infringe patents, or supplying or importing components of a patented invention, and related acts can also give rise to liability in certain cases.
If the P&G patent isn't valid where the blades are manufactured the manufacturer isn't in violation. It falls down to whoever is importing them. If they could sue the manufacturer then getting patents in one place would make them defacto valid everywhere and punish companies for the actions of their customers who they have no control over.
Does anyone know where the complaint is or at least the specific patents? I guess they are claiming infringement against a method to coat the blades somehow to improve shaving?
Why do I have a feeling this will be another one of those cases that expose just how corrupt and broken our patent system is.
I get the opposite impression. From the brief description in the article, this sounds like it might be a good patent. But I too would be interested in seeing just what the patent is.
[+] [-] tristor|10 years ago|reply
The 4X, for instance is the same as the Dorco Pace 4 blade system, including compatibility between the cartridges/handles. I think Dollar Shave Club may provide unique handles, but the razor blade cartridges themselves are made by Dorco.
[+] [-] cfcef|10 years ago|reply
Presumably they are purchasing the razor blades from Dorco and importing them.
http://www.uspto.gov/patents-maintaining-patent/patent-litig...
> Patent infringement is the act of making, using, selling, or offering to sell a patented invention, or importing into the United States a product covered by a claim of a patent without the permission of the patent owner. Further, you may be considered to infringe a patent if you import items into the United States that are made by a patented method, unless the item is materially changed by subsequent processes or becomes a trivial and nonessential component of another product. A person “infringes” a patent by practicing each element of a patent claim with respect to one of these acts. Further, actively encouraging others to infringe patents, or supplying or importing components of a patented invention, and related acts can also give rise to liability in certain cases.
(If you think about it, of course importing is infringement. Otherwise, patents are worthless: anything patented would simply be made overseas, if they aren't already.)
[+] [-] JshWright|10 years ago|reply
It's a solid product, at a great price, with excellent customer service. I recently had a package lost by USPS (they got confused because someone had forwarded mail to my address), and after a single email to Dorco, they sent out a replacement order (despite the fact that they had nothing to do with the original package getting lost).
[+] [-] adrr|10 years ago|reply
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/business/worldbusiness/29i...
[+] [-] frogpelt|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Someone1234|10 years ago|reply
DSC is actually just a blade reseller, so suing them for patent infringement seems odd. Until you consider that this whole lawsuit may be part of a larger drive to either push DSC out of business or buy them out of business, in either case the cost of the lawsuit will contribute.
PS - As an aside I don't think Dorco's blades are as good as Gillette's blades yet. However I highly welcome a more competitive landscape in the cartridge blade market.
[+] [-] rtkwe|10 years ago|reply
edit: typo and pronoun vagueness.
[+] [-] processing|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pc86|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yarrel|10 years ago|reply
But suing them in this way isn't good.
[+] [-] reitanqild|10 years ago|reply
Bonus: It cost like a fraction of the price and you don't look like a teenager when shaving :-P
[+] [-] Someone1234|10 years ago|reply
Safety razors are indeniably cheaper long term (although expect to pay $100 ish to get a good handle, brush, bowl, blades, and soap). You'll likely break even after ten years (assuming $1.50 cartridges Vs. 10c blades). You'll also likely receive a closer shave with a safety razor.
That being said... I did the whole safety razor thing. It was fun. But then I switched back to cartridges. Why? In order to get a good close shave with a safety razor while also minimizing the chance of nicks, cuts, and razor burn you need a good quality thick lather.
Unfortunately creating a good thick lather can easily take ten minutes. You cannot really use off the shelf shaving foam or gel because it doesn't provide enough protection for a safety razor.
So ultimately I decided I wanted shaving to be a 10 minute activity in the mornings, and not a 20 minute activity. Also creating lather isn't the most fun thing to do first thing after you wake up, in particular if you're working it hard (as you should).
Cartridges are quick and easy. They're the ultimate lazy man's solution. And you can use off the shelf non-foaming gels (e.g. "King of Shaves Alphagel", "Gillette Fusion ProGlide Clear Shave Gel") in the shower (and, yes, wet-shaves are a must either way, buy an inexpensive non-electrical anti-condensation travel mirror (i.e. you tip hot water into a compartment behind the mirror)).
[+] [-] NoGravitas|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] abakker|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] douche|10 years ago|reply
Never really understood the purpose of shaving cream - hot water has always been plenty effective enough, and any type of soap or lather or cream makes a mess and leaves my skin oily.
I have a suspicion that, like women's cosmetics, hair shampoo, and neckties, shaving customs solely exist to vacuum money out of people's wallets and be inconvenient.
[1] http://www.safetyrazors.net/schick/schick_razors5.jpg
[+] [-] jff|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] warfangle|10 years ago|reply
I just started laser hair removal on my face, and at $100/session for 2-6 sessions, it'll pay for itself in 1-3 years (I use a fresh blade every week). Plus no shadow/stubble.
[+] [-] sauere|10 years ago|reply
Subscribing to DSC today, wanted to do that a long time ago anyway.
[+] [-] burnte|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kelukelugames|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] swang|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rhino369|10 years ago|reply
http://www.google.com/patents/US6684513
[+] [-] marme|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adoming3|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blueatlas|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hughes|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] freddref|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iamleppert|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dpark|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Nadya|10 years ago|reply
https://www.dollarbeardclub.com/
[+] [-] whoopdedo|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rtkwe|10 years ago|reply
> Patent infringement is the act of making, using, selling, or offering to sell a patented invention, or importing into the United States a product covered by a claim of a patent without the permission of the patent owner. Further, you may be considered to infringe a patent if you import items into the United States that are made by a patented method, unless the item is materially changed by subsequent processes or becomes a trivial and nonessential component of another product. A person “infringes” a patent by practicing each element of a patent claim with respect to one of these acts. Further, actively encouraging others to infringe patents, or supplying or importing components of a patented invention, and related acts can also give rise to liability in certain cases.
If the P&G patent isn't valid where the blades are manufactured the manufacturer isn't in violation. It falls down to whoever is importing them. If they could sue the manufacturer then getting patents in one place would make them defacto valid everywhere and punish companies for the actions of their customers who they have no control over.
[+] [-] philosoft|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wahsd|10 years ago|reply
Why do I have a feeling this will be another one of those cases that expose just how corrupt and broken our patent system is.
[+] [-] mikeash|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kevin_thibedeau|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] madengr|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hnrodey|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adamc|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ethagnawl|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] noja|10 years ago|reply