> Also, still offering 1366x768 TN screens is really embarrassing, especially on expensive machines like these.
Why is it "embarrassing" to offer a cheaper option? Nobody is forcing you to buy their lowest end machine. You can stick to the top end display (2560×1440).
A $700 1366x768 Thinkpad is a little more expensive than consumer laptops, but the build is still better than a consumer laptop, the uEFI offers more features, it has the TrackPoint, a better keyboard, and replaceable batteries.
This is a frequent problem I have with Lenovo, outside of the Thinkpad name and the TrackPoint they rarely have anything that makes me want to consider dishing out that kind of money for their hardware. My work provides me with a Lenovo W540 which is a beast of a machine and is certainly nice for software development, but for my personal use I feel I got a much better deal on purchasing my Dell XPS13 than I would have a Thinkpad X1.
I use the mobility feature of my laptop for meetings where I connect it to a projector and for attending conferences.
The rest of the time my laptop sits in its docking station connected to a couple of external monitors and input devices. The only reason I even leave my laptop open is because I think it helps with cooling.
I don't even know what the resolution is on my laptop and I don't really care.
Any ideas on how well these laptops will support Linux? In my experience, Thinkpads are hit-or-miss when it comes to Linux support and I don't want to be the one that has to figure everything out (which I've done before for a few laptops; going so far as to make my own patches).
Honestly, Windows-only hardware or features are a big warning sign for me as those will be the first things to cause trouble--even in Windows! Microsoft will push an update to Windows and then, say, your power management stops working, the screen starts flickering when playing videos, the special laptop buttons no longer work, etc etc.
If everything works with Linux out-of-the-box though then it's unlikely you're going to experience problems in Windows either.
Unfortunately, battery life drives the laptop market more than any other feature. Most laptop purchasers live in this bizarre world in which electrical outlets are as rare as an oasis in the desert, and the market responds as such.
Big RAM? 16GB is a lot of RAM but it's not unheard of. My Thinkpad W540 has that much, which is standard in my company. I think any Mac can be configured with 16GB of RAM. 32GB is a lot, but of the four laptops they mentioned, only two of them support that much.
My 3+ year old Lenovo X230s had 16GB of RAM. My new Lenovo T450s has 12GB of RAM. But if only I'd waited another couple of months, I could have had a laptop with baddum tish the same amount of RAM as the 3 year old version!
Offtopic, but I've always been curious: do people really find trackpoint style mice even remotely usable? Presumably so, since Lenovo still includes them, but personal experience makes this baffling.
Edit: thanks for the responses. I can definitely see how the trackpoint could be more accurate, but my experience is that the workflow is MUCH slower. As basically a joystick device, you must wait for the pointer to move to the desired location. One could compensate for this by pushing harder, but this results in overshoot of the intended target, which requires compensating with slow, precise reversal movement. The whole process is just very, very tedious in my experience using them. That's what I meant, specifically. How do you trackpoint users manage to get around this?
Yes, absolutely. I actually have a USB ThinkPad keyboard that includes a trackpoint, and use that when at a desk, in preference to any other mouse or keyboard.
With the sensitivity set well, a trackpoint can move the mouse all the way across the screen with a strong push, yet have pixel-accurate precision with a light touch. And it sits on home row, making it trivial to switch between keyboard and mouse without a major hand position change.
I only use the touchpad to scroll. Even for that, some people configure the trackpoint to scroll while holding the middle mouse button, but that configuration doesn't work for me as I rely on a functional three-button mouse (middle-click to open a link in a tab, and middle-click to paste in a terminal).
It takes getting used to. But once you do, the way back is very difficult. The speed and precision is way better than any trackpad (including Apple's).
Yes, I used to find them hugely useful once I got used to it even did graphic design with one and it worked really well (years ago I worked in print and used a cheap Thinkpad on top of the colour machine as the print server/layout tool, it worked surprisingly well - was an r50e iirc).
Count me in the "yes" camp as well. I've been using ThinkPads off and on since before IBM sold it off, so I'm quite use to it.
It's definitely less accurate, but I can do quite a bit while only lifting one finger off the keyboard, which is a big productivity boost, and the biggest argument for having it on your computer. Especially for shorter, simpler movements.
I will always reach for another tool (generally a trackball, if I'm at my desk) if I'm trying to do something more accurate or complex.
I don't really care for the precision, but for me the Trackpoint is easier and faster to use than touchpads. I can keep my hands on the keyboard all the time and don't have to move them down, or take them off to grab a mouse lying several feet away from the home row. I just bump the track point and keep typing.
Aiming takes a while to get used to, though, especially in Windows with its useless mouse acceleration settings. Those take far too much tweaking.
>I can definitely see how the trackpoint could be more accurate, but my experience is that the workflow is MUCH slower.
Thinkpad trackpoints have a third button, which is good for middle click for me (as well as great scrolling). Touchpads require me to adjust my hand to button+tap or something equally awkward. That's much slower.
Plus, your hands never leave the keyboard with a trackpoint.
>As basically a joystick device, you must wait for the pointer to move to the desired location
In my experience, this is no slower than mouse movement.
> One could compensate for this by pushing harder, but this results in overshoot of the intended target, which requires compensating with slow, precise reversal movement.
I don't have trouble with fast, precise movement with a trackpoint.
> How do you trackpoint users manage to get around this?
I really have to turn this around and ask, how do non-mac touchpad users manage to endure the crap they use? I found them far inferior to mice and trackpads for years.
I'll be the dissenting voice here: I hate them, and would actively go out of my way to not buy a laptop that has one. I've tried trackpoints going all the way back to the original Toshiba Portegé from the 90s. I owned that one, and it was either trackpoint or an external mouse, so I tried to love it. I've had later laptops foisted upon me that had them. Never could get into 'em.
I found them to not be precise, and I believe your use of the word "tedious" is spot on. Always chasing the damned thing around, trying to get it to go exactly where I want. So to each their own, but I'm in the camp that just doesn't get it.
In my opinion, they're way better than touchpads. For any serious work I use a full size wireless mouse, but I'm comfortable on a trackpoint, and continuously frustrated using a touchpad. It's important to use the hard grippy eraser head and not the squishy cup head if accuracy is important. I'm stuck using a Macbook Pro at the moment, but I would love to have modern components in my old Thinkpad T400, or even better, the 600E I had in college.
I have an old Lenovo X200s and a new-ish Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro.
The trackpoint is A LOT more * accurate than the pad. And particularly so for business applications like spreadsheets, word processors etc. Also much easier when you're slumped back on a couch.
I use it for coding, but then I barely need the mouse.
* Now doing things like drawing (even just a polygon in design apps) is easier with a pad.
I love the first line in this article: "We've long cried out for laptops with lots of RAM so that they can handle workloads as varied as hosting development virtual machines or running Chrome.."
I'd love to buy Lenovo's big RAM (64 GB ECC) laptop.
But Lenovo included unerasable spyware in BIOS that reinstalls itself after a clean reinstall of non-OEM, original Windows DVD, I think I'll pass. Maybe it doesn't affect Lenovo's business range, but I don't want to take any chances.
Lenovo did remove the crapware in question afterwards. It doesn't inspire confidence when they do same spyware/crapware deal multiple times and only remove such software after getting caught.
RAM is the new disk - we're seeing a phase change whereby most data can be held permanently in RAM. For a laptop, this might not a lot of sense (until non-volatile RAM arrives), but for servers, RAM density is enabling multi-TB datasets to be held in memory. This will be transformative since it means that businesses can easily access memory like the big boys (Google, Facebook) using off-the-shelf software.
Being stuck on 16:9 is bad enough, but worst of all was the move away from the "7-row" keyboard. The island ("chicklet") Thinkpad keyboard is better than other OEMs versions of same, and of course, I won't leave home without a Trackpoint.
But every day since my x201s died—replaced by an x230 tablet—I miss the seventh row. ScrollLock and Pause|Break are not legacy controls, and I get blocked every day when I reach for those keys, and as they say, "There they were: gone![1]"
Oh, and I see no reason why all the pro-line Thinkpads (X,T) don't support 32GB, minimum.
Lenovo seems to be getting the Thinkpad brand back on track, but for my money it's not happening quickly enough.
[1] Possibly from character, Ed, on Northern Exposure
I don't care for all those big cables coming out at the sides... especially the right side where my mouse hand will be. Wish manufactures wouldn't do that so often.
I got a big RAM laptop from Lenovo back in 2012 and it is great! I bought the RAM from Crucial, however, because Lenovo charged entirely too much for it.
Finally an update worth possibly purchasing, the limited amount of ram was a real downside to the last few iterations they pushed out. That and the single channel DDR situation.
The X1 comes with an (included) external ethernet dongle which runs at full speed. That is to say: it's not a BW-limited USB-based adapter.
I agree it's a bit silly to need a dongle, it seems to be quite a popular sacrifice (ref Macbook air) to help make laptops thinner.
As this trend increased, I suspect we will start seeing USB-C (3.x) type networking kits becoming the standard for ethernet. Maybe some day even without the RJ45 connector.
[+] [-] wooger|10 years ago|reply
A 16:9 screen is bad enough, but looks even worse when the laptop's frame is 16:10.
Also, still offering 1366x768 TN screens is really embarrassing, especially on expensive machines like these.
[+] [-] Someone1234|10 years ago|reply
Why is it "embarrassing" to offer a cheaper option? Nobody is forcing you to buy their lowest end machine. You can stick to the top end display (2560×1440).
A $700 1366x768 Thinkpad is a little more expensive than consumer laptops, but the build is still better than a consumer laptop, the uEFI offers more features, it has the TrackPoint, a better keyboard, and replaceable batteries.
[+] [-] snuxoll|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] manaskarekar|10 years ago|reply
Hope the displays are better than their past models.
T450s is supposed to have a good display in terms of PWM flicker.
[+] [-] creshal|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iamthepieman|10 years ago|reply
The rest of the time my laptop sits in its docking station connected to a couple of external monitors and input devices. The only reason I even leave my laptop open is because I think it helps with cooling.
I don't even know what the resolution is on my laptop and I don't really care.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] riskable|10 years ago|reply
Honestly, Windows-only hardware or features are a big warning sign for me as those will be the first things to cause trouble--even in Windows! Microsoft will push an update to Windows and then, say, your power management stops working, the screen starts flickering when playing videos, the special laptop buttons no longer work, etc etc.
If everything works with Linux out-of-the-box though then it's unlikely you're going to experience problems in Windows either.
[+] [-] frik|10 years ago|reply
Compare that specs with 2010 Intel notebook CPUs ("Westmere") max 2.8 GHz - very little has changed for notebooks. see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_micropro...
Where are the 3-4GHz CPUs for notebooks? Where are 6 or 8 core CPUs for notebooks?
[+] [-] vox_mollis|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ismavis|10 years ago|reply
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/01/lenovo-x1-carbon-adds...
[+] [-] freehunter|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ericfrenkiel|10 years ago|reply
In the same way that 8 GB is ubiquitous today for the low-end, 16 GB will soon become the standard.
[+] [-] chisleu|10 years ago|reply
They were suppose to come out last year, but were delayed for some reason.
[+] [-] rwmj|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vox_mollis|10 years ago|reply
Edit: thanks for the responses. I can definitely see how the trackpoint could be more accurate, but my experience is that the workflow is MUCH slower. As basically a joystick device, you must wait for the pointer to move to the desired location. One could compensate for this by pushing harder, but this results in overshoot of the intended target, which requires compensating with slow, precise reversal movement. The whole process is just very, very tedious in my experience using them. That's what I meant, specifically. How do you trackpoint users manage to get around this?
[+] [-] JoshTriplett|10 years ago|reply
With the sensitivity set well, a trackpoint can move the mouse all the way across the screen with a strong push, yet have pixel-accurate precision with a light touch. And it sits on home row, making it trivial to switch between keyboard and mouse without a major hand position change.
I only use the touchpad to scroll. Even for that, some people configure the trackpoint to scroll while holding the middle mouse button, but that configuration doesn't work for me as I rely on a functional three-button mouse (middle-click to open a link in a tab, and middle-click to paste in a terminal).
[+] [-] vetinari|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] noir_lord|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rsgoheen|10 years ago|reply
It's definitely less accurate, but I can do quite a bit while only lifting one finger off the keyboard, which is a big productivity boost, and the biggest argument for having it on your computer. Especially for shorter, simpler movements.
I will always reach for another tool (generally a trackball, if I'm at my desk) if I'm trying to do something more accurate or complex.
[+] [-] creshal|10 years ago|reply
Aiming takes a while to get used to, though, especially in Windows with its useless mouse acceleration settings. Those take far too much tweaking.
[+] [-] Redoubts|10 years ago|reply
Thinkpad trackpoints have a third button, which is good for middle click for me (as well as great scrolling). Touchpads require me to adjust my hand to button+tap or something equally awkward. That's much slower.
Plus, your hands never leave the keyboard with a trackpoint.
>As basically a joystick device, you must wait for the pointer to move to the desired location
In my experience, this is no slower than mouse movement.
> One could compensate for this by pushing harder, but this results in overshoot of the intended target, which requires compensating with slow, precise reversal movement.
I don't have trouble with fast, precise movement with a trackpoint.
> How do you trackpoint users manage to get around this?
I really have to turn this around and ask, how do non-mac touchpad users manage to endure the crap they use? I found them far inferior to mice and trackpads for years.
[+] [-] mikestew|10 years ago|reply
I found them to not be precise, and I believe your use of the word "tedious" is spot on. Always chasing the damned thing around, trying to get it to go exactly where I want. So to each their own, but I'm in the camp that just doesn't get it.
[+] [-] fps|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] binarycrusader|10 years ago|reply
Otherwise, I can't stand them.
[+] [-] tertius|10 years ago|reply
I have an old Lenovo X200s and a new-ish Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro.
The trackpoint is A LOT more * accurate than the pad. And particularly so for business applications like spreadsheets, word processors etc. Also much easier when you're slumped back on a couch.
I use it for coding, but then I barely need the mouse.
* Now doing things like drawing (even just a polygon in design apps) is easier with a pad.
[+] [-] stephen|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JanezStupar|10 years ago|reply
I'd have a Mac long time ago if they would offer a Trackpoint.
[+] [-] thomasjudge|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] creshal|10 years ago|reply
• Running multiple VMs to debug IE 8-10
• Chrome
[+] [-] vardump|10 years ago|reply
But Lenovo included unerasable spyware in BIOS that reinstalls itself after a clean reinstall of non-OEM, original Windows DVD, I think I'll pass. Maybe it doesn't affect Lenovo's business range, but I don't want to take any chances.
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/lenovo...
Lenovo did remove the crapware in question afterwards. It doesn't inspire confidence when they do same spyware/crapware deal multiple times and only remove such software after getting caught.
[+] [-] yuhong|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ericfrenkiel|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yuhong|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 5h|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] creshal|10 years ago|reply
Still waiting for a worthy replacement. The X260 clearly isn't one.
[+] [-] frik|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AceyMan|10 years ago|reply
But every day since my x201s died—replaced by an x230 tablet—I miss the seventh row. ScrollLock and Pause|Break are not legacy controls, and I get blocked every day when I reach for those keys, and as they say, "There they were: gone![1]"
Oh, and I see no reason why all the pro-line Thinkpads (X,T) don't support 32GB, minimum.
Lenovo seems to be getting the Thinkpad brand back on track, but for my money it's not happening quickly enough.
[1] Possibly from character, Ed, on Northern Exposure
[+] [-] mixmastamyk|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PaulHoule|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] peter303|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bfrog|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] auvi|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] et2o|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mtgx|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alrs|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] scw|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] josteink|10 years ago|reply
The X1 comes with an (included) external ethernet dongle which runs at full speed. That is to say: it's not a BW-limited USB-based adapter.
I agree it's a bit silly to need a dongle, it seems to be quite a popular sacrifice (ref Macbook air) to help make laptops thinner.
As this trend increased, I suspect we will start seeing USB-C (3.x) type networking kits becoming the standard for ethernet. Maybe some day even without the RJ45 connector.
[+] [-] elcct|10 years ago|reply