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Quiet naval hero who rescued Enigma machine dies aged 95

160 points| CarolineW | 10 years ago |royalnavy.mod.uk | reply

44 comments

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[+] SEJeff|10 years ago|reply
FWIW, there is another captured german Uboat at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago, U505, where they also captured an Enigma machine. This mission was also secret, and this was actually captured by American sailors, not british ones.

http://www.msichicago.org/whats-here/exhibits/u-505/

The tours are absolutely fascinating. Anyone visiting Chicago who is a history buff should check it out.

[+] drzaiusapelord|10 years ago|reply
Actually they captured two. I posted about this in this thread earlier only to find my comment at -2. Not sure why the sudden downvotes, especially considering I posted about the U505 before you did. Regardless, here is the link:

http://www.msichicago.org/whats-here/exhibits/u-505/the-exhi...

Yes, MSI has one of the Enigmas on-premises and can be viewed if you pay for the tour (U505 tour is not part of standard admissions and sells out everyday). I'm something of an MSI junkie and can't recommend this enough. Its an incredibly under-appreciated museum. If it was in LA or NYC it would probably be world famous. Being 25 minutes south of Chicago's downtown seems to have hurt its prestige. Its too far for tourists to go without a car unless they really want to hoof it via public trans, which takes almost an hour from downtown.

Interestingly enough, its on the site and housed in a building (The Palace of Fine Arts) built for Chicago's infamous Columbian World's Fair from 1893 where guys like Edison, General Electric, Tesla, Westinghouse, and others showed off the new technology of various electrical innovations (neon light, long distance power transmission, powerful electric motors, etc) for home and industry.

[+] egroat|10 years ago|reply
It is a shame Hollywood has a tendency to portray the successes of the Allies in general as being conducted purely by American citizens.

Of course it doesn't help that the other nations don't actively promote their forces in the same manner the Americans do - perhaps good, perhaps bad.

[+] coldcode|10 years ago|reply
While he was still alive, a crew member of U505 actually did the tours. Talk about surreal...
[+] TrevorJ|10 years ago|reply
the story of how they got the craft indoors is pretty neat too.
[+] Stolpe|10 years ago|reply
"The story of the seizure of the machine by Balme and his shipmates was kept secret until the mid-1970s". I've always been intrigued by this fact. Does anyone know why this was kept a secret for so long?
[+] ptha|10 years ago|reply
Interestingly from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_machine#History

"An estimated 100,000 Enigma machines were constructed. After the end of World War II, the Allies sold captured Enigma machines, still widely considered secure, to developing countries".

I'm sure they were quite happy to sell Enigma and also decrypt their communications for nearly another 30 years.

[+] bendykstra|10 years ago|reply
Just as during WWII, during WWI, the British had a very sophisticated interception and decryption program[1]. Its capabilities were also kept secret for long after the war and the Germans remained largely ignorant of how thoroughly their codes had been broken. I think if the work during WWI had been revealed earlier, the Germans would have been more careful and would have avoided repeating some of the mistakes of WWI. It was shown to be a wise policy after WWI, so I'm not surprised that they continued it after WWII, especially with the start of the Cold War.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_40

[+] bboreham|10 years ago|reply
Many countries used Enigma and its derivatives after the war; the UK and US did not want those countries to know they could read their messages.
[+] pjc50|10 years ago|reply
That sounds like the 30 year rule in action. At the time it was done, it would have been extremely secret, and secrecy was not abandoned simply because the war was over.

Bletchley was kept secret for even longer.

[+] DanBC|10 years ago|reply
England keeps secrets for a long time. GCHQ have only just recently released stuff that Turing wrote.
[+] branchless|10 years ago|reply
Amazing bravery. How many lives did his action save? This is the kind of person that makes you proud to be British. Selfless.
[+] moogleii|10 years ago|reply
So did Allen Long get anything?

"Telegraphist Allen Long quickly located the coding device which looked like a typewriter. Long “pressed the keys and. finding results peculiar, sent it up the hatch”."

[+] chiph|10 years ago|reply
I avoided watching "U571" because of the fictionalization. Should I go back and watch it?
[+] arethuza|10 years ago|reply
If you want a fictional account of an American obtaining crypto material from a sinking U-boat I'd recommend the one included in Cryptonomicon....
[+] balls187|10 years ago|reply
Do you like WWII based movies? It's decent enough.
[+] richieb|10 years ago|reply
The story of the Enigma is quite complex. But by 1941 the Allies knew how the machine worked (there were commercial Enigmas sold before the war). The Naval Enigma was somewhat more secure (more rotors to choose from) and obtaining the daily setting book would be the most important thing, not the machine itself.

Polish mathematicians broke the early Enigma in the late 1930s (http://www.codesandciphers.org.uk/virtualbp/poles/poles.htm), they passed their information to the British in 1939 and that was used as a starting point of the work at Blechley Park.

If you are interested in the details, check out the book "The Hut 6 Story" by Gordon Welchman. He was a peer of Turing who worked on the Army and Air Force Enigma, while Turing worked on the Naval version.

Of course Turing's biography by Andrew Hodges also has a lot of details how the Engima was broken.

[+] yoodenvranx|10 years ago|reply
I was always wondering if Neal Stephensons "Cryptonomicon" is historically accurate when he writes about the enigma and its background.
[+] vic-traill|10 years ago|reply
In an interview in the BBC Special about Bletchley Park 'The Goose That Laid the Golden Eggs' David Balme is interviewed and the focus is on the bigram tables that he captured intact. There is no mention of actually capturing an Enigma machine. This is not to say that one wasn't included in the capture of U110.

Rather, I get the sense that the capture of the bigram tables was a Big Thing, possibly more important than the acquisition of a physical Enigma in the breaking of the Naval Enigma code, as Turing had engineered much of the machine conceptually.

N.B. Would post the link to the BBC special - it's part 2 of 4, and quite interesting - but I don't have a strong enough sense of what is netiquette in the posting of links yet.

[+] rurounijones|10 years ago|reply
A sad loss, so many people made so many silent sacrifices for Engima.

Worth mentioning the other pretty unsung sacrifices made by crew members of HMS Petard; which can be read in the book "Fighting Destroyer".

[+] bliaxiong|10 years ago|reply
They should at least posthumously bump his DSC to something higher.