Netflix came to Kazakhstan few days ago. So far I used torrents, because there were no legal services with good enough offerings for me. I'm using Netherlands VPN almost always, because Kazakhstan bans many sites. So I subscribed to Netflix and I liked that service, I would definitely continue that subscription. But I switched off my VPN once and suddenly everything I watched just disappeared. It's blocked for me. So probably back to torrents for now. I really liked Netflix interface, it's the best experience I've ever seen. But interface doesn't worth a penny without content.
Whereas if they continue to let you proxy content internationally they'll lose their licenses for said content and Netflix will be gone.
Netflix don't benefit from blocking you. This move is driven by content license negotiations. Someone has told them to stop letting people outside of the US access that content, and given the fact that content acquisition is Netflix's biggest cost I can understand why they're listening.
If going by the numbers of titles over at flixsearch.io, UK has 2983 titles whereas US has 5750 titles in its Netflix library. Which is roughly double. But I'm not sure how correct those numbers are.
Yep, also because I get most of that half content for "free" with Amazon Prime... If I quit netflix I'll save the netflix money and the vpn service money (or, at least, I can scale down to an anonymizer).
Unfortunately, this means that I will have to reconsider my membership. Their service in Germany is just not comprehensive enough. I hope that this is just a short term problem until they a) renegotiated their licensing contracts and then stop the blocking again (more likely) or b) they actually get global licenses (less likely).
Their original content is getting more and more interesting but its just not enough to justify the price, IMHO. Maybe they should consider a package with only Netflix Originals for 50% off or something.
I'm using the German Netflix without a VPN or proxy, so I'm unfamiliar with the differences between the German and US offerings? Would you care to tell me more? What are you watching on US Netflix that is not available on German Netflix?
This nationalization of the internet is ridiculous. Especially in the media business where you don't even have to torrent anymore. One-Click-Hosters or streams are all over the place. Popular shows can be found by googling.
I just can't understand how we can still move backwards facing all this. I have the feeling that the content providers just hope for the inability of their customers to google.
But hey, I taught a guy who last year didn't even use YouTube to find his favorite US shows from Germany and how to download them in 1080p without any risk. So please...wake up.
This has to do with licensing and rights more than anything else.. not just "the internet"
Just because you have rights to something in one country, does not mean you have rights to that same thing in another country and so on.
Content providers are up against an amazing amount of bureaucracy, and only have limited resources to deal with these things.. especially considering we're talking about different laws and systems for virtually every country on the planet.
I'm certain Netflix would like to offer you as much content as they can, but they also have to respect existing law.
The only "fair" thing they could do is have specific-country accounts. If you have a UK account then you get UK price and UK content everywhere in the world.
It would suck, because of course the US version is much better, but at least it would be fair.
I find it shocking that I can't access the content I'm paying them for if I'm traveling to a different country. I don't even know if it's legally sound...
That said, per-country licensing is simply stupid. However that's how the content industry works for historical reasons, and they are known to be 30 years behind in technological understanding...
Edited to add:
Ultimately, it's a war that the content providers can't win. In order to watch Star Trek via streaming from the UK, on line I have 3 options at the moment:
1) Use a VPN and Netflix USA
2) Use a VPN and torrents
If they kill the first, what options to they leave?
For people concerned, I asked the Smartflix team if it will impact their service. Here is their answer:
"Hello! Yes, we are aware about the recent statement that Netflix has published, and needless to say we are upset about it!
However this does not mean the end of Smartflix. We are constantly able to outsmart these systems, and we will continue to do so for as long as humanly possible - so fear not!"
As I understand it they intend to charge their users at some point? Doesn't look like a sound plan to me as Smartflix will probably have to constantly fight against whatever measures Netflix (or its licensing partners) comes up with.
I, as a potential user, certainly wouldn't rely on that service.
I can see a lot of people I know cancelling their subs. Also I wonder if this will result in a resurgence of torrents as people find other ways to watch their shows.
From a technical standpoint, how can they actually enforce this?
I can see how they can do this for publically advertised proxies used by many people, but what about individuals with their own cloud servers hosting their own proxy or VPN? (i.e. me!)
I'd image they'd just block access to anyone connecting from a Datacenter/Cloud Provider, using a dataset like this one https://github.com/client9/ipcat. I'm sure there are more complete paid for datasets out there - probably from someone like https://www.maxmind.com. That would likely block 95% or more of the VPN/proxies out there. It will probably be a bit of a whack a mole approach to the get the rest but you'll get pretty fed up signing up to some obscure and possibly slow/expensive vpn provider to find it blocked 2 days later.
What's actually interesting is that they are now openly admitting that they have been turning a blind eye to this before when 1. it's relatively simple and 2. it has always been a requirement of the content rights holders.
1.They don't need to stop you on sight, nor cur your connection every time you connected through VPN. But if they can eventually detect your pattern, then disrupt it, which will lead to great inconvenience for you, and it will be sufficient to stop most of the users from using VPN.
2.They can surely use your billing information for this purpose, as it is case with Google Play.
3.Another thing to be remind of, a international user might not always use VPN for Netflix, likely they will switch back for their local content at some point. If such traffic switch happens, it is easy to detect for further action.
4.Again, it is quite complicated process I believe, and like all softwares, there are loopholes. But I believe their goal is to stop MOST common users from using VPN for cross-regional content easily, not ALL of them. This is quite achievable.
Probably block the IP address of VPN services. Maybe even block IPs that are from hosting companies.
Yes, in theory, smart people can set up their own VPN and work around it. But they'd probably be happy if the average user can't access it. I doubt their goal is 100% coverage, they'd be happy with 90%.
How do they spot proxies? Do they have lists of known proxy IPs? Or do they have a way to tell from the incoming connection? I wouldn't be very hard to fire up a VM in a cloud service to watch a movie, switch it off when done. The cost should be fairly marginal, and you would come from a new unique IP every time.
If this is indeed forced by content creators, I think it is counter productive. They will just give more incentive to Netflix (and Amazon and others) to create they own content, as third part content lose them money.
Perssonal view: the "Original Netflix Content" sign already give me a more value perception. Between a recycled TV show and a new one by Netflix, I always chose the new on by Netflix. So far I watched all of: Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Making a Murderer, House of Cards, Narcos, Sense8, Bloodline, Orange is the new black, Master of None, Better Call Saul.
And I'll probably keep watching the next seasons of all of them.
Outside of Netflix, I only follow the very best ones (IMO): Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad (that's over) and Walking Dead.
What this means? I consume only the very best hits that these other content creators produce. For casual, day-to-day entertainment, that covers 90% of the time, I stay with Netflix.
So here's the thing -- vendors of DVDs used to constrain who could view (and when) the various cuts of their product based on where the viewers (or rather, purchasers) were located.
Someone [1] worked around this and subsequently the idea of region-locked DVD discs & players became a historical footnote.
Why is the same industry evidently repeating the same mistake?
It's a slightly different technology being dealt with here and to some degree I have sympathy for Netflix and other stream providers (mostly Amazon).
The difference between the DVD region locking and the stream region locking is that the powers that be never stood a chance at locking down the DVDs. It's like the old saying about physical access to a machine - all bets are pretty much off at that point. The DVD region locking cases were more just a desperate attempt to get some legal teeth to hit people with rather than actually stop the issue. After all, once the DVDs are in the wild and the crack is live, you can't really stop people from removing the region lock, you can just sue them after the fact.
With streamed content, it's a different ball-game since the providers technically can control the delivery and experience all the way through the content. If Netflix et. al. can create a successful means of blocking VPN and proxy access, then you sure bet that the rights-holders are going to double-down on the region blocking. The rights-holders already are getting their cut from Netflix et. al., so it's not like they're losing a huge chunk of change, and if people up and up ditch the streaming sites, that falls more in line with what the rights-holders likely want anyways.
I really enjoy Prime's video selection, and from what I've seen with Netflix, it's nice. I'm in Russia right now and I really wish that I could watch the shows I've paid for access to on Prime. But I don't really hold any disillusionment as to where the fault lies here. The rights-holders made dozens upon dozens of distribution agreements about what can be shown where and by who, and Netflix and its kin are pretty much just stuck.
Hopefully they can show that their model is more profitable as a global library rather than regional libraries, and the content holders will loosen their grip. Maybe I'll win the lottery.
My question is: how can they tell (and block) if a user is streaming through VPN? Do they systematically block all major VPN provider domains? Anyone know how this is done?
It does occur to me that this was probably a lot like Comedy Central's ridiculously easily circumvented geo-blocking. I suspect the sysadmins said "what's the laziest thing we can do?"
My parents recently moved to Turkey, and I set them up with NordVPN (good service and easy to use for non-technical people). All they really wanted to watch was Star Trek: TNG anyway, which, even after the big availability push, is not available via Turkish Netflix. Without being able to do that, they will certainly cancel that subscription.
I recently resubscribed, but I had forgotten the lack of content without proxies and since I'm mostly just streaming to Chromecast from my phone I'm not sure I can even use a proxy anymore. I probably should unsubscribe either way. I haven't really watched anything new since I resubscribed
This seems weird, it'll just increase piracy and lose them money? The people who are using proxies etc. really aren't doing anything wrong are they and they are paying for the service presumably in the locale they are proxying to?
Assuming that this is going to work by just blocking known proxy IPs, I suppose it can be worked-around simply by setting up your own VPN server, which really isn't that difficult.
[+] [-] jrnkntl|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vbezhenar|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CleanCoder|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GordonS|10 years ago|reply
When using a proxy to access US content I get about double the content. If I can't do this anymore, it's not worth the price and I will be gone.
[+] [-] onion2k|10 years ago|reply
Netflix don't benefit from blocking you. This move is driven by content license negotiations. Someone has told them to stop letting people outside of the US access that content, and given the fact that content acquisition is Netflix's biggest cost I can understand why they're listening.
[+] [-] realusername|10 years ago|reply
- The French and German Netflix have 3 times less content than the US
- The Italian one, almost 5 times less content.
- The Russian one, almost 8 times less.
(numbers taken from flixsearch.io, not sure how it's accurate)
There are vast difference in catalogue between the different countries.
[+] [-] temp|10 years ago|reply
South Korea apparently only has 672 titles.
[+] [-] yummybear|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sklivvz1971|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dr_faustus|10 years ago|reply
Their original content is getting more and more interesting but its just not enough to justify the price, IMHO. Maybe they should consider a package with only Netflix Originals for 50% off or something.
[+] [-] sveme|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aluhut|10 years ago|reply
I just can't understand how we can still move backwards facing all this. I have the feeling that the content providers just hope for the inability of their customers to google.
But hey, I taught a guy who last year didn't even use YouTube to find his favorite US shows from Germany and how to download them in 1080p without any risk. So please...wake up.
[+] [-] halviti|10 years ago|reply
Just because you have rights to something in one country, does not mean you have rights to that same thing in another country and so on.
Content providers are up against an amazing amount of bureaucracy, and only have limited resources to deal with these things.. especially considering we're talking about different laws and systems for virtually every country on the planet.
I'm certain Netflix would like to offer you as much content as they can, but they also have to respect existing law.
[+] [-] sklivvz1971|10 years ago|reply
It would suck, because of course the US version is much better, but at least it would be fair.
I find it shocking that I can't access the content I'm paying them for if I'm traveling to a different country. I don't even know if it's legally sound...
That said, per-country licensing is simply stupid. However that's how the content industry works for historical reasons, and they are known to be 30 years behind in technological understanding...
Edited to add:
Ultimately, it's a war that the content providers can't win. In order to watch Star Trek via streaming from the UK, on line I have 3 options at the moment:
1) Use a VPN and Netflix USA
2) Use a VPN and torrents
If they kill the first, what options to they leave?
[+] [-] k-mcgrady|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cocoggu|10 years ago|reply
"Hello! Yes, we are aware about the recent statement that Netflix has published, and needless to say we are upset about it!
However this does not mean the end of Smartflix. We are constantly able to outsmart these systems, and we will continue to do so for as long as humanly possible - so fear not!"
[+] [-] thirdsun|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BrockSamson|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GordonS|10 years ago|reply
I can see how they can do this for publically advertised proxies used by many people, but what about individuals with their own cloud servers hosting their own proxy or VPN? (i.e. me!)
[+] [-] snowwolf|10 years ago|reply
What's actually interesting is that they are now openly admitting that they have been turning a blind eye to this before when 1. it's relatively simple and 2. it has always been a requirement of the content rights holders.
[+] [-] eva1984|10 years ago|reply
1.They don't need to stop you on sight, nor cur your connection every time you connected through VPN. But if they can eventually detect your pattern, then disrupt it, which will lead to great inconvenience for you, and it will be sufficient to stop most of the users from using VPN.
2.They can surely use your billing information for this purpose, as it is case with Google Play.
3.Another thing to be remind of, a international user might not always use VPN for Netflix, likely they will switch back for their local content at some point. If such traffic switch happens, it is easy to detect for further action.
4.Again, it is quite complicated process I believe, and like all softwares, there are loopholes. But I believe their goal is to stop MOST common users from using VPN for cross-regional content easily, not ALL of them. This is quite achievable.
[+] [-] TeMPOraL|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rmc|10 years ago|reply
Yes, in theory, smart people can set up their own VPN and work around it. But they'd probably be happy if the average user can't access it. I doubt their goal is 100% coverage, they'd be happy with 90%.
[+] [-] jamespo|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cm2187|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] imglorp|10 years ago|reply
From NF's viewpoint however, nobody has their living room in Amazon or Azure, so any connections from cloud providers can be safely dropped also.
[+] [-] soneca|10 years ago|reply
Perssonal view: the "Original Netflix Content" sign already give me a more value perception. Between a recycled TV show and a new one by Netflix, I always chose the new on by Netflix. So far I watched all of: Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Making a Murderer, House of Cards, Narcos, Sense8, Bloodline, Orange is the new black, Master of None, Better Call Saul.
And I'll probably keep watching the next seasons of all of them.
Outside of Netflix, I only follow the very best ones (IMO): Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad (that's over) and Walking Dead.
What this means? I consume only the very best hits that these other content creators produce. For casual, day-to-day entertainment, that covers 90% of the time, I stay with Netflix.
[+] [-] Jedd|10 years ago|reply
Someone [1] worked around this and subsequently the idea of region-locked DVD discs & players became a historical footnote.
Why is the same industry evidently repeating the same mistake?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Lech_Johansen
[+] [-] csydas|10 years ago|reply
The difference between the DVD region locking and the stream region locking is that the powers that be never stood a chance at locking down the DVDs. It's like the old saying about physical access to a machine - all bets are pretty much off at that point. The DVD region locking cases were more just a desperate attempt to get some legal teeth to hit people with rather than actually stop the issue. After all, once the DVDs are in the wild and the crack is live, you can't really stop people from removing the region lock, you can just sue them after the fact.
With streamed content, it's a different ball-game since the providers technically can control the delivery and experience all the way through the content. If Netflix et. al. can create a successful means of blocking VPN and proxy access, then you sure bet that the rights-holders are going to double-down on the region blocking. The rights-holders already are getting their cut from Netflix et. al., so it's not like they're losing a huge chunk of change, and if people up and up ditch the streaming sites, that falls more in line with what the rights-holders likely want anyways.
I really enjoy Prime's video selection, and from what I've seen with Netflix, it's nice. I'm in Russia right now and I really wish that I could watch the shows I've paid for access to on Prime. But I don't really hold any disillusionment as to where the fault lies here. The rights-holders made dozens upon dozens of distribution agreements about what can be shown where and by who, and Netflix and its kin are pretty much just stuck.
Hopefully they can show that their model is more profitable as a global library rather than regional libraries, and the content holders will loosen their grip. Maybe I'll win the lottery.
[+] [-] x0|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kelvin0|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CleanCoder|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wintermute306|10 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] 746F7475|10 years ago|reply
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