It's pretty well known that tees made using 1920s-era loopwheeling machines don't suffer from size changes, and age really well. But sadly these are now super expensive, and only offered by Japanese niche brands who bought machinery from American corps.
I have been thinking the same for a long time. Clothing these days are just branding, marketing as such. I don't want any of that. I want quality, decent materials.
Like the article suggested, materials in clothing these days cost very little. I used to own two Ralf Lauren Polo Cotton T-Shirt. One Cost $200 the other $100, both were a sensation to wear. I still have them today and i love them. The problem is i got them as gift. I could never afford to buy them myself. I just wanted simple styling and plain colour, nothing fancy, and decent quality materials like those Polo Shirt i have. I tried a few Start up who claim they uses premium quality but they surely dont match those.
For now i continue to stick to Uniqlo for pretty much everything. They sure are not the best, but I do find them value for money, at least comparative speaking.
I remember visiting a Japanese clothes shop here in Dubai and I noticed their shirts were quite different in texture than anything else I'd seen. It was expensive too. I think it's called Superdry? Could that be one of the niche brands you're talking about or are they just using a unique blend of textiles?
In any case, it's quite fascinating how sometimes old tech is simply better than what we have today.
> While hot water may cause shrinkage in wool garments, for cotton and polyester t-shirts, the washer settings don't make a big difference.
This is also more or less true of wool, in fact. It's not the hot water that shrinks a wool sweater, it's getting it damp and agitating it. The hotter it is while agitating, the faster it will shrink; being fully wet (as opposed to damp) mitigates the felting process somewhat. It appears that cotton is the same way (although its shrinkage is less extreme and less permanent than shrinking a wool sweater!). You can certainly get a wool sweater wet with hot water without shrinking it at all. If you're careful, you can wash it in hot water and agitate it to wash it properly, as long as you don't overdo it, without shrinking it. With some treated wools you can tumble dry on no heat, although I wouldn't recommend it; but under no circumstances should you wash a wool garment (in whatever heat of water) and then put it in a dryer with any heat at all. That will shrink it.
I knit, so I have extra awareness of how many people just don't know what to do with wool these days, and I have to educate them if I want to give them something I made. :)
I'm the founder of threadbase. Thanks everyone for your kind words. I'd love to hear any comments or suggestions for what you'd like to see next or how we can improve the user experience. We're also looking for front-end/design help, as well as help with computer vision tech. Feel free to email me [email protected].
I understand the desire for adults to have a shirt that fits, but I think that falls squarely in the bucket of "nice to have". As a parent of a child that doesn't fit any of the sizing charts, being able to predict what size of what brand will fit my kid would be a "must have"! Kids also tend to go through clothes a lot faster than adults, making the potential savings of getting a good fit far greater.
I organize an annual conference [1]. All of our attendees get a free tshirt. We purchase all of our tees from a single manufacturer (say American Apparel) and let the attendee tell us the size they want before we finalize the order.
The problem is that attendees often don't know what size will fit them, and sometimes guess wrong and end up with a poor fit. Anything you could offer us to help here?
Excellent work and presentation! I'd love to see a similar treatment on jeans. For instance, I wear Levi's, and always default to 501 32/32, and the 5 pairs I have range from baggy to painted-on. I'd be interested to see the manufacturing variance within/between countries of origin–I have pairs from 3 different countries, and like I said, very different fits.
This is great for comparing cotton or cotton blend shirts. I'd love to see the same data for shirts that don't use any cotton. We make fabrics for our own brand and usually stay away from cotton partly due to the problem of fit variance after wash.
Threadbase is a really cool project. I'd definitely use something like this if it were available in my country. Good luck, I hope you succeed and go global.
Then you finally find a shirt which is just the "right" length at the store, and three washes later and it is too short... But you cannot buy the next size up since you need more LENGTH not shoulder width.
Very few brands make t-shirts which are 2x-tall (as opposed to 2x-large, where both the length AND width increases). A medium-2xtall would be like the unicorn of t-shirts.
The sizes should be: S, M, L, 2x, 3x, etc & S-T, S-2xT, S-3xT, M-T, M-2xT, etc.
I feel obliged to share a lifehack my mother taught me regarding the laundry.
After removing the laundry, take your t-shirts and stretch them yourself, one by one, when they're still slightly wet. Grab them with two hands symmetrically, stretch horizontally, moving your hands down along the shirt. Do the same vertically, and with the sleeves.
Do not use a machine dryer, just a regular standing dryer like [1].
Put your t-shirts carefully, symmetrically on the dryer, and once dry, put them on a hanger. If you follow this, you will not have to iron them at all.
Source: been doing this for 4 years and I didn't touch the iron since. I have all t-shirts 100% cotton (though I buy only high-grammage ones) and they all seem brand new and ironed (the only exception being one particular brand whose collar looks bad unless ironed, I stopped buying that brand). YMMV of course.
Just before hanging them, while they are still wet:
Grab each t-shirt from the top with both hands, then do a couple of violent whip-like movements. This has the same effect of stretching the fabric so that no ironing is needed.
> I feel obliged to share a lifehack my mother taught me regarding the laundry. After removing the laundry, take your t-shirts and stretch them yourself, one by one, when they're still slightly wet. Grab them with two hands symmetrically, stretch horizontally, moving your hands down along the shirt. Do the same vertically, and with the sleeves.
Interesting, I never considered this a hack. Noone told me this, but I always do it. Ironing is never needed. I do it with pants too.
The trick I was taught was to dry the light clothes (shirts, underwear, socks) separately from the heavy clothes (jeans, hoodies). Then hang the shirts up immediately after pulling them out of the dryer while they are still hot. Then you won't need to iron your shirts. It may not work really well for some dress shirts though.
My wife has a similar trick that we've been using successfully.
After removing the laundry, we fold everything neatly, and leave them stacked on top of each other for 30-60 mins. Than we dry them with a standing dryer.
Haven't ironed t-shirts or jeans since we got married.
I've been using the same technique for a while and it's working quite well. Unfortunately, it's only for tee-shirts and not shirts, so the iron is still required from times to times.
Great to have this data. But wouldn't the extent of dryer-induced shrinkage be driven by the amount of time in the dryer, as much or more than temperature?
While most modern dryers offer a choice of temperatures, the big knob mostly controls a humidistat-based target. I personally equate the "very dry" setting with "shrink beyond usability".
I'd expect that removing clothes while still damp would be more important to avoiding shrinkage than reducing the heat, but I'm no T-shirt scientist. (T-shirtician? T-shirtologist?)
"The biggest determinant of shrinkage is whether the shirt went in the dryer or not. (We wash and dry all t-shirts using a warm wash and normal/warm dry cycle)."
Good stuff. I'm interested to see data on other cotton garments, particularly buttondown shirts.
Cotton is just a lousy fiber. On the other hand, wool is a strong and resilient fiber. It also never needs to be washed provided it isn't stained.
My wife knit a wool sweater for a close friend of mine who spent 6 months as a bosun on the tallship the Lady Washington (the Interceptor in the Pirates of the Caribbean). Fresh water is scarce on a tallship so showers were infrequent. He came home during Christmas and I smelled the sweater which he claims he never washed and it smelled fresh. Surprisingly, it also kept him warm and dry on the open ocean. I later learned that Irish fishermen have been wearing wool sweaters at sea for generations.
The "manufacturing variance" chart jumped out at me as looking fairly unnatural: there's a variation in width or variation in length but very little points that mix. Then I noticed that we're talking about just over half an inch in each direction.
How much of this effect is variation in your measurement?
This is excellent. Independent, consumer-empowering size analysis, especially measured over extended wear and washing. I'll be following you.
I wonder if there are any companies that sell inexpensive custom t-shirts? Provide your measurements, specify desired fit, neck type, color, and fabric, and order exactly what you want.
As someone very hard to fit for pants (28" waist and cyclist thighs), I would be thrilled if you also do this for jeans and shorts.
We've thought about doing made-to-order tees before, but at the end of the day, since we sew in Los Angeles, they'd end up being like $75 each for a custom pattern.
There are some companies that have done tees and polos though - Polos - VASTRM. Button ups - Blank Label, Pacific Issue, Proper Cloth. Tees - SonofaTailor, Threadmason.
I've standardized my shirts on the Uniqlo Crew Shirts and they seem to have very little change from wash to wash compared to my Banana Shirts.
The Uniqlo shirts are a cotton/polyester blend while the BR shirts are 100% cotton, which explains the help that durability of the synthetic materials provide.
It would be great if we could get some data on which brands have the most and least variance and which brands expand and shrink the most over their lifetime.
I don't have a dryer, but I've still had cotton shirts (not t-shirts) shrink in the washing machine. This usually happens the first time (or first few times) they are washed at the temperature recommended on the label: 40°C (104°F). However, at 30°C (86°F) I've never encountered any shrinkage. So this purely anecdotal experience makes me believe that the temperature of water can affect some cotton garments.
This is a cool analysis, although I think every t-shirt I own is from Target (Merona and Mossimo brands) so I didn't have a single point of reference for the width and length charts. Those charts seemed like by far the most useful part of this post.
Edit: I'm curious about the downvotes. Are people appalled at my lack of taste in t-shirts? :)
[+] [-] nextos|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xaybey|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ksec|10 years ago|reply
Like the article suggested, materials in clothing these days cost very little. I used to own two Ralf Lauren Polo Cotton T-Shirt. One Cost $200 the other $100, both were a sensation to wear. I still have them today and i love them. The problem is i got them as gift. I could never afford to buy them myself. I just wanted simple styling and plain colour, nothing fancy, and decent quality materials like those Polo Shirt i have. I tried a few Start up who claim they uses premium quality but they surely dont match those.
For now i continue to stick to Uniqlo for pretty much everything. They sure are not the best, but I do find them value for money, at least comparative speaking.
[+] [-] ralfruns|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Cyph0n|10 years ago|reply
In any case, it's quite fascinating how sometimes old tech is simply better than what we have today.
[+] [-] reviseddamage|10 years ago|reply
Well don't I feel stupid, I didn't know this pretty well known thing. Thanks for the share. :)
[+] [-] kazinator|10 years ago|reply
A search for ループウィール turns up some hits, like the Barns brand.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] blahedo|10 years ago|reply
This is also more or less true of wool, in fact. It's not the hot water that shrinks a wool sweater, it's getting it damp and agitating it. The hotter it is while agitating, the faster it will shrink; being fully wet (as opposed to damp) mitigates the felting process somewhat. It appears that cotton is the same way (although its shrinkage is less extreme and less permanent than shrinking a wool sweater!). You can certainly get a wool sweater wet with hot water without shrinking it at all. If you're careful, you can wash it in hot water and agitate it to wash it properly, as long as you don't overdo it, without shrinking it. With some treated wools you can tumble dry on no heat, although I wouldn't recommend it; but under no circumstances should you wash a wool garment (in whatever heat of water) and then put it in a dryer with any heat at all. That will shrink it.
I knit, so I have extra awareness of how many people just don't know what to do with wool these days, and I have to educate them if I want to give them something I made. :)
[+] [-] threadbase|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jballanc|10 years ago|reply
I understand the desire for adults to have a shirt that fits, but I think that falls squarely in the bucket of "nice to have". As a parent of a child that doesn't fit any of the sizing charts, being able to predict what size of what brand will fit my kid would be a "must have"! Kids also tend to go through clothes a lot faster than adults, making the potential savings of getting a good fit far greater.
[+] [-] crabasa|10 years ago|reply
I organize an annual conference [1]. All of our attendees get a free tshirt. We purchase all of our tees from a single manufacturer (say American Apparel) and let the attendee tell us the size they want before we finalize the order.
The problem is that attendees often don't know what size will fit them, and sometimes guess wrong and end up with a poor fit. Anything you could offer us to help here?
[1] http://2016.cascadiajs.com
[+] [-] sixstringtheory|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amelius|10 years ago|reply
PS. Could you include "stretch" t-shirts, like this one (just an example):
> http://www.iwantpants.com/polo-ralph-lauren-stretch-cotton-w...
[+] [-] dc2|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mazumdar|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] liadmat|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alexis|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MonadQueen|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] specialist|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] UnoriginalGuy|10 years ago|reply
Then you finally find a shirt which is just the "right" length at the store, and three washes later and it is too short... But you cannot buy the next size up since you need more LENGTH not shoulder width.
Very few brands make t-shirts which are 2x-tall (as opposed to 2x-large, where both the length AND width increases). A medium-2xtall would be like the unicorn of t-shirts.
The sizes should be: S, M, L, 2x, 3x, etc & S-T, S-2xT, S-3xT, M-T, M-2xT, etc.
[+] [-] jseliger|10 years ago|reply
Try RibbedTee.com. Esp. the Micro Modal shirts. Yes, they are expensive. But they last and fit.
[+] [-] jakub_g|10 years ago|reply
After removing the laundry, take your t-shirts and stretch them yourself, one by one, when they're still slightly wet. Grab them with two hands symmetrically, stretch horizontally, moving your hands down along the shirt. Do the same vertically, and with the sleeves.
Do not use a machine dryer, just a regular standing dryer like [1].
Put your t-shirts carefully, symmetrically on the dryer, and once dry, put them on a hanger. If you follow this, you will not have to iron them at all.
Source: been doing this for 4 years and I didn't touch the iron since. I have all t-shirts 100% cotton (though I buy only high-grammage ones) and they all seem brand new and ironed (the only exception being one particular brand whose collar looks bad unless ironed, I stopped buying that brand). YMMV of course.
[1] http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41oWjx2Q-mL._SY300_.jp...
[+] [-] phamilton|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johansch|10 years ago|reply
Just before hanging them, while they are still wet:
Grab each t-shirt from the top with both hands, then do a couple of violent whip-like movements. This has the same effect of stretching the fabric so that no ironing is needed.
[+] [-] josh_carterPDX|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unicornporn|10 years ago|reply
Interesting, I never considered this a hack. Noone told me this, but I always do it. Ironing is never needed. I do it with pants too.
[+] [-] markdown|10 years ago|reply
How does this contraption dry clothes? Looks like someone tried to take a clothesline indoors.
[+] [-] chris11|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hakanderyal|10 years ago|reply
After removing the laundry, we fold everything neatly, and leave them stacked on top of each other for 30-60 mins. Than we dry them with a standing dryer.
Haven't ironed t-shirts or jeans since we got married.
[+] [-] Fiahil|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] Dan_in_Brighton|10 years ago|reply
While most modern dryers offer a choice of temperatures, the big knob mostly controls a humidistat-based target. I personally equate the "very dry" setting with "shrink beyond usability".
I'd expect that removing clothes while still damp would be more important to avoiding shrinkage than reducing the heat, but I'm no T-shirt scientist. (T-shirtician? T-shirtologist?)
[+] [-] pizzasynthesis|10 years ago|reply
"The biggest determinant of shrinkage is whether the shirt went in the dryer or not. (We wash and dry all t-shirts using a warm wash and normal/warm dry cycle)."
[+] [-] tdaltonc|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sschueller|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jkereako|10 years ago|reply
Cotton is just a lousy fiber. On the other hand, wool is a strong and resilient fiber. It also never needs to be washed provided it isn't stained.
My wife knit a wool sweater for a close friend of mine who spent 6 months as a bosun on the tallship the Lady Washington (the Interceptor in the Pirates of the Caribbean). Fresh water is scarce on a tallship so showers were infrequent. He came home during Christmas and I smelled the sweater which he claims he never washed and it smelled fresh. Surprisingly, it also kept him warm and dry on the open ocean. I later learned that Irish fishermen have been wearing wool sweaters at sea for generations.
Wool is the fiber of the past and future.
[+] [-] flormmm|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] boulos|10 years ago|reply
The "manufacturing variance" chart jumped out at me as looking fairly unnatural: there's a variation in width or variation in length but very little points that mix. Then I noticed that we're talking about just over half an inch in each direction.
How much of this effect is variation in your measurement?
[+] [-] brad0|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smcl|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chrismartin|10 years ago|reply
I wonder if there are any companies that sell inexpensive custom t-shirts? Provide your measurements, specify desired fit, neck type, color, and fabric, and order exactly what you want.
As someone very hard to fit for pants (28" waist and cyclist thighs), I would be thrilled if you also do this for jeans and shorts.
[+] [-] wsul|10 years ago|reply
There are some companies that have done tees and polos though - Polos - VASTRM. Button ups - Blank Label, Pacific Issue, Proper Cloth. Tees - SonofaTailor, Threadmason.
[+] [-] itchyouch|10 years ago|reply
The Uniqlo shirts are a cotton/polyester blend while the BR shirts are 100% cotton, which explains the help that durability of the synthetic materials provide.
It would be great if we could get some data on which brands have the most and least variance and which brands expand and shrink the most over their lifetime.
[+] [-] vanilla-almond|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] carlob|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mojoe|10 years ago|reply
Edit: I'm curious about the downvotes. Are people appalled at my lack of taste in t-shirts? :)
[+] [-] samstave|10 years ago|reply
What if the fabric was rotated 90 degrees upon manufacture, wouldn't this eliminate this problem?
The shrink pattern is related to the orientation of the thread build of the fabric used is it not?
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]