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saucetenuto | 10 years ago

I think this is my favorite Underhanded C submission ever. One simple ambiguity, applied with breathtaking precision and effectiveness. Puts me in mind of an old essay of Zed's: http://zedshaw.com/archive/the-master-the-expert-the-program...

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teddyh|10 years ago

From the essay:

> In contrast there are masters in the martial arts who learned their art as a means of survival and became masters in a realistic and hostile environment. We don’t have anyone like this in the programming profession, or at least I haven’t met any.

Charles H. Moore springs to mind.

mabbo|10 years ago

> learned their art as a means of survival

A friend of mine posted this a couple years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7950190

It's fantastic meeting people who learned to program because they had to. They have a totally different perspective on it.

pavel_lishin|10 years ago

> Charles H. Moore springs to mind.

Can you expand on this?

nickpsecurity|10 years ago

I have a background in system design, programming, and martial arts. That was a great essay. Really enjoyed it. So thanks for linking it. I'm glad I've finally gotten into the Master phase in the sense of philosophy rather than claiming a certain talent level.

I'm sick of all the needless complexity in what people push. I'm old enough to have seen it repeat in many fads over time. I've seen designs that beautifully and simply (for user/developer) handled their requirements. I've even seen the master programmers he thinks don't exist that write maintainable, good code under deadlines. I've seen amateurs following good principles come close enough. So, I'd like to see more people emulating the principles of mastery he espouses using any proven method to get there and avoiding common pitfalls.

A significant rise in amateurs on that path would itself deliver a better baseline than what today's experts are pushing. I'll take a well-trained amateur that hates complexity over an expert any day. 80/20 rule says I don't need many experts anyway for most jobs.

sarciszewski|10 years ago

> I'll take a well-trained amateur that hates complexity over an expert any day.

I would consider someone sufficiently well-trained, yet wise enough to understand the value in simplicity, humble enough to listen to the ideas of others and keep learning, and curious enough to actively consult others for dissenting ideas to be one of tomorrow's experts.

In other words, I agree. :P

saganus|10 years ago

> In contrast there are masters in the martial arts who learned their art as a means of survival and became masters in a realistic and hostile environment. We don’t have anyone like this in the programming profession, or at least I haven’t met any.

I'm wondering if Zed would consider say Carmack for example, such a master coder?