That founder seems so tenaciously determined to promote his new iteration of the same old failed startup but keeps getting called out over and over again on his shadiness.
This is just some feedback on the availability form--
It's uncomfortable to have to give you my email on it, and it becomes irritating to only be told there are no service providers in my area. I'm not sure why you're collecting it there, care to illuminate that for me? Or at least reassure me I won't be spammed?
I'm genuinely interested in your service for a multitude of reasons... So please, see this as an attempt at constructive feedback/questioning.
Also, the form doesn't remember your choice for flexibility. It'd be a nicer experience if it did.
I thought the same thing; they probably collect the email to notify you once they actually do have cleaners available. However, a much more frictionless approach would be to only ask for an email after the search, like "Would you like us to notify you once cleaners are available in your area?" That's more genuine.
I don't have any affiliation with the site but this is something that messes with me as a dev because I hate spam.
You have expressed interest in the service. Maybe they don't serve your area, or maybe you aren't ready to use the service this month or next month but might 6 months from now. So how does this service get your business, a business that in theory you want?
Is the business supposed to simply wait for you to re-find it when you need it, or continue to come back and search again for when it's available in your area?
Isn't the whole point of LEAN and MVP to do this process so you know where demand is coming from?
I'm wondering how they fixed the problem with cleaners that take the client away and get paid directly instead of going through Homejoy platform. It's similar to Upwork I guess, where the same possibility exists, but still works. Focusing on the cleaner profile is interesting as the cleaner will only get more number of jobs done when they're realized through the platform. I don't have the details about this change from Homejoy to Homeaglow, but I would like to know :) At least the Business Insider's article didn't mention or I didn't get it.
Yes, this is an interesting question. Watching PathJoy become HomeJoy and then close, I assumed (wrongly I guess) that they had moved from the match making concept into an actual cleaning company that owned the whole process. This BTW is how traditional companies keep employees from stealing clients. The employment has greater value than the single client. At any rate, it's more obvious in this latest iteration that they think there is a platform play here.
So after their last business failed, they shut it down, exported all the data out of it, started a new business, imported all the data, and are now operating sans all the original investors?
How do they make money? The cleaners can set their own hourly rate and get to keep the tips. If Homeaglow simply takes a cut, say 10%, then the cleaners don't really get their requested hourly rate though...
In that line art picture slider it looks like they will bring me more books and a new plant? That's a service I might pay for. After the cleaner comes your house has more cool stuff in it.
I noted that they look to repoint your brick work also.
Also, I have a cleaner but prefer them to leave some of the spiders in my house. Those spiders hopefully deter the more dangerous ones (redbacks, white-tailed, etc) and their webs hopefully frustrate mosquitoes.
Honest question -- Is anyone at YC still in regular contact with the Cheungs? They seem to be embarrassing themselves with these repeated attempts. When Homejoy shut down, I still had a lot of respect for what they built. Now, if I were a prospective investor in one of their future ventures, I would have serious doubts about their judgment.
It indirectly was a feature. Instead of always going through HomeJoy customers would start going directly to the cleaners cutting HomeJoy out completely. This was on top of HomeJoy offering coupons that made the service so cheap they would lose money until the customer stopped going through them and directly through the cleaner.
Did they solve their untenable business model of assuming that cleaners are interchangeable service workers AND assuming that cleaners aren't smart enough to cut out the middle-man who literally does nothing after the initial introduction?
In case there is any confusion on the matter, Homeaglow is the operating name of ABAP Holdings, incorporated in Delaware in August 2015. The company has two employees, and Mr. Aaron Chueng is listed as a co-founder and principal contact.
The art of pivoting - Homejoy in its current concept was literally the 13th idea we fully built out and tried to execute on and tried to get customers for. And so a lot of the questions I get are," How do you even get to that 13th idea, and how did you decide when to move on?" The best guidance that I can give on that is the kind of look at these three criteria, which is once you realize that you can't grow, and despite building out all of these great features and talking to all of these users none of them stick, or the economics of the business just don't make sense - then once you make that realization you just need to move on.
Adora Cheung, How to Start a Startup; Lecture 4
They worked hard, but at the end of the day this is really hard to execute on because it is a luxury item, not very sticky, has no urgency and the barriers to entry are virtually non-existent. Uber is a good market maker in an analogous indutry, however they have some pretty key differences.
* Extreme urgency. If I need to get to point B, it is likely important that the quicker and easier I can get there from point A is important to me. I can probably wait to have my room cleaned, but I definitely need to be at work by 9 all the times it is a weekday or I have to be there.
* Bigger market. There are more people who, at some point during the day, find themselves needing to go somewhere that isn't where they are. Probably more people travel over a mile a day than need their house cleaned.
* Cheaper and more efficient. Uber is much cheaper than Taxis in many situations, and often a higher value prop. You can save money taking a subway and a bus to many locations, but of these things do not go to the destination in an acceptable schedule, Uber will, and it will do it cheaply and there aren't too many options although there are certainly some. If you need your house cleaned, you can google like 10-4000 providers.
* Labour is more attractive. This one is big, maybe biggest. While Uber has been slashing prices, and not offering a great value prop to drivers in many cases (based on conversations with a few drivers) they are still held in relatively high esteem by society, and the work itself is of (for many) more desirable than cleaning houses. Given the option for equivalent wages, I would rather drive around and pick people up than clean someones house.
At the end of the day Uber and Homejoy are information arbatrageurs. The delta between knowing where all cars that would be willing to take a fare are as well as where all the people who need to travel are, is a lot more valuable than knowing how to contact all the people who are willing to clean houses is.
editII: unpredicatability. I can't predict that fucking bank of america would cancel my credit card at 5:00am in the morning when I was leaving the bar to get a cab. I needed a ride and 10 minutes prior had no idea. I can however, pretty regularly predict when I need my house cleaned making it quite easy to evaluate options and make those arrangements.
* difficulty to complete by user. I could, if I was some sort of heathen or proletariat type punter, clean my own house. However, it would be more difficult for me to travel somewhere far away. Granted, cleaning a dirty house would take a long time, but if we just assume an average uber is like 4 miles, most people would pay like 6.00 to not walk 4 miles which would be about an hour. However, many people would spend an hour cleaning their house rather than have a complete stranger come over and do it for them for >6.00 while they waited.
I think another fundamental difference between cleaning and cab rides is that with cab rides you're essentially buying a different product each time (because you are going to/from different points) so the value of a marketplace is much higher. With cleaning services, you're buying the same product again and again (same house, same procedure, etc.) so the marketplace is just a useless middleman.
While I can agree with your points, but it is only possible to analyze N reasons when it is established that the business failed. Had they not, we would be applauding the sheer effort that went into the startup.
The way I see it, if you are not building something that businesses will pay for (B2B), you are making a huge bet akin to a lottery.
[+] [-] ricardobeat|10 years ago|reply
Previous HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10466888
[+] [-] OJFord|10 years ago|reply
At best, it was neutral-meaning and _awfully_-executed.
[+] [-] randycupertino|10 years ago|reply
That founder seems so tenaciously determined to promote his new iteration of the same old failed startup but keeps getting called out over and over again on his shadiness.
[+] [-] rubyn00bie|10 years ago|reply
It's uncomfortable to have to give you my email on it, and it becomes irritating to only be told there are no service providers in my area. I'm not sure why you're collecting it there, care to illuminate that for me? Or at least reassure me I won't be spammed?
I'm genuinely interested in your service for a multitude of reasons... So please, see this as an attempt at constructive feedback/questioning.
Also, the form doesn't remember your choice for flexibility. It'd be a nicer experience if it did.
[+] [-] moonlighter|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AndrewKemendo|10 years ago|reply
You have expressed interest in the service. Maybe they don't serve your area, or maybe you aren't ready to use the service this month or next month but might 6 months from now. So how does this service get your business, a business that in theory you want?
Is the business supposed to simply wait for you to re-find it when you need it, or continue to come back and search again for when it's available in your area?
Isn't the whole point of LEAN and MVP to do this process so you know where demand is coming from?
[+] [-] andersonmvd|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tvjunky|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pdq|10 years ago|reply
https://medium.com/@johnsalzarulo/didn-t-homejoy-shut-down-e...
[+] [-] ryporter|10 years ago|reply
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10466888
[+] [-] sparky_|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cglace|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] the_common_man|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ryporter|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Jeb_Bush|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] moonlighter|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaelmior|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nitrogen|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sib|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] prawn|10 years ago|reply
Also, I have a cleaner but prefer them to leave some of the spiders in my house. Those spiders hopefully deter the more dangerous ones (redbacks, white-tailed, etc) and their webs hopefully frustrate mosquitoes.
[+] [-] beachstartup|10 years ago|reply
laundry, on the other hand, i will gladly outsource.
edit: only because i don't have in-unit laundry.
[+] [-] mintplant|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CatDevURandom|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ryporter|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] giarc|10 years ago|reply
Never used Homejoy, was the above always a feature?
[+] [-] BinaryIdiot|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Dr_tldr|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] escape_goat|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brogrammer90|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] perks|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kdamken|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mintplant|10 years ago|reply
(aglow: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aglow)
[+] [-] prawn|10 years ago|reply
Aglow is a word: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aglow
[+] [-] vonklaus|10 years ago|reply
Adora Cheung, How to Start a Startup; Lecture 4
They worked hard, but at the end of the day this is really hard to execute on because it is a luxury item, not very sticky, has no urgency and the barriers to entry are virtually non-existent. Uber is a good market maker in an analogous indutry, however they have some pretty key differences.
* Extreme urgency. If I need to get to point B, it is likely important that the quicker and easier I can get there from point A is important to me. I can probably wait to have my room cleaned, but I definitely need to be at work by 9 all the times it is a weekday or I have to be there.
* Bigger market. There are more people who, at some point during the day, find themselves needing to go somewhere that isn't where they are. Probably more people travel over a mile a day than need their house cleaned.
* Cheaper and more efficient. Uber is much cheaper than Taxis in many situations, and often a higher value prop. You can save money taking a subway and a bus to many locations, but of these things do not go to the destination in an acceptable schedule, Uber will, and it will do it cheaply and there aren't too many options although there are certainly some. If you need your house cleaned, you can google like 10-4000 providers.
* Labour is more attractive. This one is big, maybe biggest. While Uber has been slashing prices, and not offering a great value prop to drivers in many cases (based on conversations with a few drivers) they are still held in relatively high esteem by society, and the work itself is of (for many) more desirable than cleaning houses. Given the option for equivalent wages, I would rather drive around and pick people up than clean someones house.
At the end of the day Uber and Homejoy are information arbatrageurs. The delta between knowing where all cars that would be willing to take a fare are as well as where all the people who need to travel are, is a lot more valuable than knowing how to contact all the people who are willing to clean houses is.
editII: unpredicatability. I can't predict that fucking bank of america would cancel my credit card at 5:00am in the morning when I was leaving the bar to get a cab. I needed a ride and 10 minutes prior had no idea. I can however, pretty regularly predict when I need my house cleaned making it quite easy to evaluate options and make those arrangements.
* difficulty to complete by user. I could, if I was some sort of heathen or proletariat type punter, clean my own house. However, it would be more difficult for me to travel somewhere far away. Granted, cleaning a dirty house would take a long time, but if we just assume an average uber is like 4 miles, most people would pay like 6.00 to not walk 4 miles which would be about an hour. However, many people would spend an hour cleaning their house rather than have a complete stranger come over and do it for them for >6.00 while they waited.
[+] [-] boreas|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shubhamjain|10 years ago|reply
The way I see it, if you are not building something that businesses will pay for (B2B), you are making a huge bet akin to a lottery.
[+] [-] godzillabrennus|10 years ago|reply