Somewhat related: I have this fantasy where I actually make a living working a non-technical job that is relatively simple to do but where I'm able to read and think about what I would build when I get back to the keyboard all day long.
I'd spend the days thinking about building and how you would do it for 90% of the time but only spend 5-10% of my time executing. The rest of the time is thinking, planning, and re-thinking things I've done, imagining the tweaks and enhancements I'd get to pump out when I have the chance.
The best code I write is when I have it all figured out ahead of time, the problem is paged-in, and my fingers are merely transcribing the stream of consciousness. I just need a couple of moments to get it out.
Dissimilarly, I would imagine that, being deployed in Iraq, this guy doesn't have much time to think about his startup when doing his non-technical job (as it IS a demanding one) but imagine being a sniper spending your time hiding in the brush thinking about what you would build when you could build it. I'm romanticizing war now though...
Taleb talks about these types of scenarios in Antifragile, where actually many of his predecessors took jobs with the Lebanese Civil Service in order to put bread on the table, and then were sort of philosophes in their spare time, writing and reading.
That's pretty much the route I'm taking, save for the non-technical part.
I'm writing a SaaS for biomedical data analysis, while completing a graduate degree in Experimental Medicine. I don't anticipate graduating any time soon, but I see it as an opportunity to develop the foundation of a start-up while supporting myself.
It's sort of a way to avoid having to go the fundraising route (at least for now), and can potentially allow me to onboard large clients without even talking to VCs.
I was happy to find that PG wrote about this sort of thing (albeit fairely indirectly):
"Another way to fund a startup is to get a job. The best sort of job is a consulting project in which you can build whatever software you wanted to sell as a startup. Then you can gradually transform yourself from a consulting company into a product company, and have your clients pay your development expenses."
There's a guy in my suburb that runs a local shop. It doesn't have great trade and cant be making much in the way of profit. I also know he is quite wealthy with numerous side ventures and investments. He must just like standing behind that counter, chatting to locals and having a routine no-pressure job. You'd never know he's more than a small store owner unless you were told.
So not sure the point here... but maybe you dont need to find the job, you can create your own fantasy?
I have about a 25 minute walk to work, which I, unfortunately, rarely set aside the time to do. But when I do, I swear I get more work and side project stuff done in that time than in hours of staring at a laptop.
This is very similar to what Rich Hickey (creator of Clojure) talks about when he talks about Hammock Driven Development, I recommend watching him talking about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f84n5oFoZBc
I wrote my first few video games this way. I'd bring reams of fanfold to high school and then to my job at the very quiet rural gas station back in the 80s.
This is basically what I do. I'm a supervisor for a county government, and spend a lot of my day at a desk waiting for the phone to ring. I'm still learning to code, so it helps to actually do something other than think sometimes.
To this end, because I can't install a programming environment on my work computer, I installed Linux on my 15 year-old Dell and use the secure shell extension for Chrome to connect. Being forced to do everything in a terminal has really sharpened my Emacs skills. I typically spend a good portion of my day secretly hacking away.
How about fruit picking. I did some of my best thinking when I was picking watermelons in Australia. Plenty of thinking time, lots of exercise and being away from a screen all day means that when you sit down at one it doesn't feel like you have been there all day.
So just don't code all day. I spend half the day on customer support and marketing where problems swirl around in the background so that when the second half of the day comes around, I'm good to go.
...or you could do an Albert Einstein, who worked as a patent officer. He could finish the job in 2 hours and spend the next 6 hours working on his theories.
It doesn't work that well. You can think about a problem for like 20 minutes, but then you're going to hit a wall. For most endeavors, you actually need to be sitting there with the relevant tools of thinking / recording to get anywhere.
Hey all - author and longtime HackerNews user here. It's a nice surprise coming back from an evening away from the computer and finding this at the top of front page. Whatever success I've had with Lean Domain Search is due in large part to what I've learned from this community.
How did you managed to switch context so cleanly between working about your side project and on your day job? I would imagine that you day job would be quite stressful, and getting 45mins may not be possible every day.
Hey Matt,
so you launched the site 4 years ago and very top comment on that old HN thread was: .."There are no margins in the domain industry."..
So, years passed by :) how much income the site generates monthly?
The title should probably read "Doing a Side Project Website in 45 Minutes per Day While Deployed in Iraq," or "How to test the market for viability of an idea in 45 minutes per day," etc. Maybe "startup" has become meaningless...
I don't mean to diminish the accomplishments of the author, Lean Domain Search is a nice tool he built, and may even be a good way to test a market. Doing so while distracted by military service / a full time job certainly shows impressive drive/willpower. However, to build a company that might (someday) involve more than a 1 man show requires more than 45 minutes per day of attention, especially if other people's livelihoods are(/will be) dependent on you.
Since he was an officer (where you are generally treated much, much better than an enlisted person)and in the Air Force, and only spending 5 months in Iraq, I can believe he did all of this. Though certainly not representative of the average solider/marine who was deployed to Iraq.
Actually given the 80/20 support-to-operator ratio throughout the wars, I would say this is actually quite representative of what most people's experience in the recent wars.
That begs the question, can we define once and for all what is the difference between startup and side/pet projects?
There was no mention about revenues or even users. I found the story very inspiring but the terms need to be clarified else startup is going to be used very loosely. We might as well all call ourselves founders/ceo's/entrepreneurs in which case.
> what is the difference between startup and side/pet projects
It's a very large and fluid boundary. Lots of startups take less time than "side" projects, lots of side projects turn into incorporated startups, etc. If in doubt, just say you're working on a project.
> We might as well all call ourselves founders/ceo's/entrepreneurs
Lots of people do that. I would suggest not so much focusing on your title, but rather focusing on your work, and bringing it to the point at which you can proudly call yourself by whatever title you deserve.
One of our students at Bloc was on active duty in Qatar while learning Ruby on Rails from us. It's interesting to see the new lifestyles and opportunities that are created when accessibility is unlocked by the Internet.
I ran into a lot of NG/RC people (especially, but even some full time active duty people) in Iraq/Afghanistan 2004-2010 who were doing a pretty good job keeping businesses running back home. (I was selling Internet access, and while a lot of people were worried about $25/mo, if you ran a business you'd often be happy spending $500/mo to ensure you had good access -- this was before NIPR, base-wide wifi, etc.)
Great product, btw -- I've seen it on here before I think. And thank you for you service.
I'm in a similar situation where I'm working full time whilst trying to finish off a game in my spare time.
I find what helps is to have a clear goal for each work session. Even if it's tiny like 'fix this bug' or 'update this text', you finish working and feel like you've made progress. Too many times in the past I've just started working, lost focus and ended up trying to look at several things on the game and finishing none of them.
I learned to program on a warship heading to Iraq in 2003. From a book, with no internet. It's amazing what constraint's will do for you - I'm not sure I'd achieve that feat now in the presence of constant distraction!
This is also not the only project Matt was working on while deployed because I remember talking to him via email about some other pretty ambitious stuff. Kudos to Matt for really taking away the excuse of not being able to try something on the side even when you're fully employed.
I had the opportunity to meet Matt at MicroConf in 2013--hell of a guy. We hit it off since we were both active duty at the time and had similar stories. He's one of the most well-rounded guys I know in terms of dev and product chops.
The tool he built (Lean Domain Search) is great for finding hidden gems if you're looking for a new name for a project with the .com available.
It's inspiring to be able to start something from anywhere and in any situation, but I would reconsider how easy is to follow up with that and how much time you have to put in.
Even the author of 4 hour work week in the end had to work an incredible amount of hours between marketing and networking. Getting to the point of break even is not a piece of cake.
[+] [-] tbrock|10 years ago|reply
I'd spend the days thinking about building and how you would do it for 90% of the time but only spend 5-10% of my time executing. The rest of the time is thinking, planning, and re-thinking things I've done, imagining the tweaks and enhancements I'd get to pump out when I have the chance.
The best code I write is when I have it all figured out ahead of time, the problem is paged-in, and my fingers are merely transcribing the stream of consciousness. I just need a couple of moments to get it out.
Dissimilarly, I would imagine that, being deployed in Iraq, this guy doesn't have much time to think about his startup when doing his non-technical job (as it IS a demanding one) but imagine being a sniper spending your time hiding in the brush thinking about what you would build when you could build it. I'm romanticizing war now though...
[+] [-] SocksCanClose|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jszymborski|10 years ago|reply
I'm writing a SaaS for biomedical data analysis, while completing a graduate degree in Experimental Medicine. I don't anticipate graduating any time soon, but I see it as an opportunity to develop the foundation of a start-up while supporting myself.
It's sort of a way to avoid having to go the fundraising route (at least for now), and can potentially allow me to onboard large clients without even talking to VCs.
I was happy to find that PG wrote about this sort of thing (albeit fairely indirectly):
"Another way to fund a startup is to get a job. The best sort of job is a consulting project in which you can build whatever software you wanted to sell as a startup. Then you can gradually transform yourself from a consulting company into a product company, and have your clients pay your development expenses."
http://paulgraham.com/startupfunding.html
[+] [-] Gustomaximus|10 years ago|reply
So not sure the point here... but maybe you dont need to find the job, you can create your own fantasy?
[+] [-] Swizec|10 years ago|reply
Even just a 1 hour run is amazing for thinking things.
The longest I've done was a 5 hour run ... after running out of things to think about, I was mostly just in pain.
[+] [-] munificent|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dyadic|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aswanson|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bryanlarsen|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] paradigmshiv|10 years ago|reply
To this end, because I can't install a programming environment on my work computer, I installed Linux on my 15 year-old Dell and use the secure shell extension for Chrome to connect. Being forced to do everything in a terminal has really sharpened my Emacs skills. I typically spend a good portion of my day secretly hacking away.
[+] [-] IndianAstronaut|10 years ago|reply
I come up with ideas and debug when I step away from the computer. Ass in chair is not a good measure of productivity.
[+] [-] celticninja|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adanto6840|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cheez|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hyperpallium|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SuperChihuahua|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bbcbasic|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joshkpeterson|10 years ago|reply
Source: I used to work in a factory.
[+] [-] matt1|10 years ago|reply
Here's the original HackerNews launch post from 4 years back for context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3470977.
I'm happy to answer any questions about Lean Domain Search, the deployment, etc.
[+] [-] yitchelle|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xytop|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lsllc|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Outdoorsman|10 years ago|reply
And thanks for your service...!
[+] [-] jkchu|10 years ago|reply
Now that you are working full time as a developer, how much time do you spend on your side projects usually?
[+] [-] edpichler|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] idorosen|10 years ago|reply
I don't mean to diminish the accomplishments of the author, Lean Domain Search is a nice tool he built, and may even be a good way to test a market. Doing so while distracted by military service / a full time job certainly shows impressive drive/willpower. However, to build a company that might (someday) involve more than a 1 man show requires more than 45 minutes per day of attention, especially if other people's livelihoods are(/will be) dependent on you.
[+] [-] ZanyProgrammer|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SocksCanClose|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hudibras|10 years ago|reply
http://mattmazur.com/category/poker-bot/
Didn't know that he was active duty in the military at the time, though...
[+] [-] yitchelle|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] suyash|10 years ago|reply
There was no mention about revenues or even users. I found the story very inspiring but the terms need to be clarified else startup is going to be used very loosely. We might as well all call ourselves founders/ceo's/entrepreneurs in which case.
[+] [-] johnloeber|10 years ago|reply
Begging the question is an informal logical fallacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question). You mean this raises the question.
> what is the difference between startup and side/pet projects
It's a very large and fluid boundary. Lots of startups take less time than "side" projects, lots of side projects turn into incorporated startups, etc. If in doubt, just say you're working on a project.
> We might as well all call ourselves founders/ceo's/entrepreneurs
Lots of people do that. I would suggest not so much focusing on your title, but rather focusing on your work, and bringing it to the point at which you can proudly call yourself by whatever title you deserve.
[+] [-] choxi|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rdl|10 years ago|reply
Great product, btw -- I've seen it on here before I think. And thank you for you service.
[+] [-] chatwinra|10 years ago|reply
I'm in a similar situation where I'm working full time whilst trying to finish off a game in my spare time.
I find what helps is to have a clear goal for each work session. Even if it's tiny like 'fix this bug' or 'update this text', you finish working and feel like you've made progress. Too many times in the past I've just started working, lost focus and ended up trying to look at several things on the game and finishing none of them.
[+] [-] boothead|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wdewind|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] austinhutch|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] itsthisjustin|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] glossyscr|10 years ago|reply
I used LeanDomainSearch many, many times and this proves that a single guy with so little time can accomplish great things.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] gmays|10 years ago|reply
The tool he built (Lean Domain Search) is great for finding hidden gems if you're looking for a new name for a project with the .com available.
[+] [-] aledalgrande|10 years ago|reply
Even the author of 4 hour work week in the end had to work an incredible amount of hours between marketing and networking. Getting to the point of break even is not a piece of cake.
[+] [-] sireat|10 years ago|reply
It is still an inspirational story somewhat similar to path taken by patio11.
Are there any side projects which actually have turned into sustainable lifestyle businesses or better?
[+] [-] Chris2048|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jcampbell1|10 years ago|reply
You were shooting bad guys, I was typing code for hackathons. Guess we both won?