I was going to critique her for taking on an unsustainable living situation. But by the end of that post, just wow.
Yelp is a large company with a lot of resources, the way they treated this woman is despicable, especially after a family tragedy like that. It's not like they'll be going out of business if she took some time off to be a human being and care for her family.
I don't use Yelp as I've heard many other negative things about them and don't see a need to, but after reading this, I'll actively avoid them and tell others to.
Not to distract from the content of the piece, but she took a 300% loan? THREE HUNDRED PERCENT? Could she have gotten a better loan? I'm under the impression that most banks offer loans at more reasonable rates.
Also, how is Yelp able to retain salespeople in the Bay Area if they pay only $2k/month? The salary is clearly under the cost of living.
On topic: please don't let all the particularities of this case distract you. The fundamental issue is that she was fired over a short absence due to a serious family emergency, all while ostensibly performing well at her job. That's not acceptable.
Quoting: "I do not rely on the state to care for my son."
Not being from the USA and seeign the place this human being is in, it hurt me reading that justification.
Goddamm, that is what state is for! You have been fed all that capitalist bullshit for so long that don't see that another way of living is possible?
Are people waiting for private companies to help them in moments of need? That's what a welfare state is for. Just look at Europe, for all the jokes about french-strikes, taxes, corruption and whatelse we are not as fucked as this.
> while being pitched ads for my brand new vocal studio in the South Bay
> took out a loan with 300% interest to move to SF to begin training December 1st at Yelp
> pays $2500 in rent (I make 2k a month so YES, my family has to help and I am so sorry to burden them), pays $1200 a month in daycare
I do not understand.
Why would someone take a loan (at a ridiculous interest rate) to move to a situation with higher rent (let alone cost of living) than salary, especially with kids in tow, especially in a country with at-will employment, especially having just started a new business? What was the upside that would be worth so much stress and risk?
For similar reasons people take out tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands in loans to go to college: a promise of a better future, a little bit of risk and debt now for a life-changing career, and a better future for her children.
It's quite possible she was sold the position on the basis of "well, in 3-6 months time, we'll reevaluate and get you up the ladder".
She may have seen it as a life-changing opportunity with some risk for a few months.
It annoys me that you are focusing on the things she did "wrong" rather than asking whether Yelp is culpable for some of the blame here.
Is it acceptable for somebody to be fired for wanting to take three days unpaid leave to deal with a loved one in ICU? Never mind the other points she raises: this alone is terrible behaviour.
> I am the single mother who closed 17K in month one and 19K in month two.
This needs more context. Is this amount of sales considered incredible, very good, average, below average or significantly below average in Yelp world?
It's one thing if the author was a top-notch performer terminated for family circumstances beyond her control, it would be a different story if she was under-performing, perhaps on internal probation, and termination coincided with a series of tragic family events.
Some companies are known to stack-rank and trim their sales force en masse.
If she was a top-notch performer Yelp would have bent over backwards to keep her around.
The fact that they didn't would imply that the trouble of keeping her is less than the cost of firing her, which says a lot about the performance of an employee.
It's stories like this that cause everyone in Europe except the blind SV worshippers and libertarian fundamentalists to just shrug and shake their heads every time a rant comes up about how the US is so much better for startups and entrepreneurs.
And this thread is just full of sociopaths blaming the victim. SV culture disgusts me.
>And this thread is just full of sociopaths blaming the victim.
It's better to not think of it as blaming the victim, but rather offering advice on how to avoid that problem in the future. Even if the tone of the advice is rather negative...
How can you take a job where you make 2k/month and pay rent of 2.5k + 1.2k daycare. That sounds unsustainable. And a 300% loan...what?
Company culture at Yelp sounds horrible. Tell someone they can come in or get fired over the phone while they are in the ICU is pretty bad. The other stuff mentioned is also bad.
> I am the single mother who closed 17K in month one and 19K in month two. I am the single mother who gets to see her son for a few hours a night, pays $2500 in rent (I make 2k a month so YES, my family has to help and I am so sorry to burden them), pays $1200 a month in daycare (#yelpcares — no subsidy there)
I'm not experienced in sales...but how is this a good deal for the author, nevermind tenable? This, plus the 300% loan she mentions...I wonder what the Yelp recruiting pitch was to her? To give her the benefit of the doubt, it'd have to be that Yelp overpromised on commissions for her to take such a risk.
But Yelp or no Yelp, this is just a difficult situation overall, and one that continues to increase the admiration I have for women who can deal with pregnancy/motherhood and go for a high-pace job, tech or anywhere (how the F did Ada Lovelace manage 3 pregnancies in her day?)...I'd love to hear from other companies -- whether it be traditional ones or established tech companies like Google/Facebook -- about how they've dealt with similar extreme situations, if ever? My conception of Yelp is that it's not doing so hot financially and so, malice or not, has just poorly prepared itself to deal with the author's situation, such that a manager/CEO can justify being abrupt because "it's her, or the overall company". Whereas a much more stable company with all the tech amenities has more flexibility in practicing "humaneness"
Yelp: So here's how it's going to play out. We'll start you on $2k/month base, and then after 3 months your target bonuses kick in.
You: OK, what could those be?
Yelp: Well, if you work hard, you could be looking at 25% of sales you book, and we'd be expecting you to be doing $15k-$30k of sales a month, so let's take the lower end of that, and assume an additional $45k a year bringing you up to near $70k/year. Whilst you're here you're gaining great experience at a great company
You: Well, currently my life is utter crap and this seems like a good way to provide for my kid given I can't afford to go to school, so, OK...
I haven't seen this mentioned in comments before: we really need the other guy's POV in this. The most common scenarios in which you'd fire somebody for failing to show up at work is if:
- you want to fire them anyways and are just looking for an excuse
- there are recurring issues and this is just the last drop in a bucket - in which case the firing incident could very well be relatively trivial
> I am the single mother who was the top of my class in training for you Jeremy
It does not make financial sense for a company to fire a top employee for missing a day, evil or not.
Currently in the process of moving the family back to the US from Sweden, and this is one of the things that scares me the most about life in US. At most workplaces, managers treat you like cattle, and people in IT are still so blessed when I compare to the crap my wife had to go through working hospitality/restaurants and hospitals.. The situation is unacceptable.
Still, sure there are great companies in the US that emulate perks and benefits that you take for granted in the rest of the western world, but for the most part, I have always felt I've needed to start my own business to rid myself of this craziness and be able to afford myself some basic measure of work/life balance.
And of course the fundamental fact that she chose to work here and that a slave did not have a choice, except to not obey his master and be beaten or murdered.
Boyfriend in hospital doesn't qualify as 'sick leave.' FMLA is very narrow. I've been down a similar hole once in my life before. I was sickened and shocked. One emergency in my whole life. Nominal top employer. Senior position there. Zero support.
Surely this isn't worth it in the long run for Yelp. I understand if someone was constantly absent in a way that looked like they were abusing goodwill.
Surely though, the loss of morale from fellow employees over an incident like this is not worth it, unless you want to reinforce some kind of authoritarian workplace where people better keep quiet and stay in line if they want to continue being employed.
Isn't that what a lot of sales environments are like? High pressure to perform, constant turnover, management who only care about the quarterly numbers?
Hey everyone can I just make the point that comments supporting either the mother or Yelp bring value to the discussion especially if they reflect the true opinion of the reader (and likely reflect the opinion of many other readers).
Sounds like yelp is probably a shitty place to work, but on an unrelated note you're not supposed to have your phone on in the ICU. At least not where I live.
[+] [-] moonshinefe|10 years ago|reply
Yelp is a large company with a lot of resources, the way they treated this woman is despicable, especially after a family tragedy like that. It's not like they'll be going out of business if she took some time off to be a human being and care for her family.
I don't use Yelp as I've heard many other negative things about them and don't see a need to, but after reading this, I'll actively avoid them and tell others to.
[+] [-] diskcat|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] johnloeber|10 years ago|reply
Also, how is Yelp able to retain salespeople in the Bay Area if they pay only $2k/month? The salary is clearly under the cost of living.
On topic: please don't let all the particularities of this case distract you. The fundamental issue is that she was fired over a short absence due to a serious family emergency, all while ostensibly performing well at her job. That's not acceptable.
[+] [-] darkr|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lagadu|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ktRolster|10 years ago|reply
Brutal.
[+] [-] koder2016|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] prawn|10 years ago|reply
The bulk of your comment was about a loan she took out and a low salary!
[+] [-] Tiksi|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yomism|10 years ago|reply
Quoting: "I do not rely on the state to care for my son."
Not being from the USA and seeign the place this human being is in, it hurt me reading that justification.
Goddamm, that is what state is for! You have been fed all that capitalist bullshit for so long that don't see that another way of living is possible?
Are people waiting for private companies to help them in moments of need? That's what a welfare state is for. Just look at Europe, for all the jokes about french-strikes, taxes, corruption and whatelse we are not as fucked as this.
[+] [-] crdb|10 years ago|reply
> took out a loan with 300% interest to move to SF to begin training December 1st at Yelp
> pays $2500 in rent (I make 2k a month so YES, my family has to help and I am so sorry to burden them), pays $1200 a month in daycare
I do not understand.
Why would someone take a loan (at a ridiculous interest rate) to move to a situation with higher rent (let alone cost of living) than salary, especially with kids in tow, especially in a country with at-will employment, especially having just started a new business? What was the upside that would be worth so much stress and risk?
[+] [-] PaulRobinson|10 years ago|reply
It's quite possible she was sold the position on the basis of "well, in 3-6 months time, we'll reevaluate and get you up the ladder".
She may have seen it as a life-changing opportunity with some risk for a few months.
It annoys me that you are focusing on the things she did "wrong" rather than asking whether Yelp is culpable for some of the blame here.
Is it acceptable for somebody to be fired for wanting to take three days unpaid leave to deal with a loved one in ICU? Never mind the other points she raises: this alone is terrible behaviour.
[+] [-] stegosaurus|10 years ago|reply
In Britain it's basically the hallmark of being middle class - politeness, stiff upper lip.
This article does read badly, it sounds irrational, crazy, angry. And that's rational and makes sense.
[+] [-] prostoalex|10 years ago|reply
This needs more context. Is this amount of sales considered incredible, very good, average, below average or significantly below average in Yelp world?
It's one thing if the author was a top-notch performer terminated for family circumstances beyond her control, it would be a different story if she was under-performing, perhaps on internal probation, and termination coincided with a series of tragic family events.
Some companies are known to stack-rank and trim their sales force en masse.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] diskcat|10 years ago|reply
The fact that they didn't would imply that the trouble of keeping her is less than the cost of firing her, which says a lot about the performance of an employee.
[+] [-] nudpiedo|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] makeitsuckless|10 years ago|reply
And this thread is just full of sociopaths blaming the victim. SV culture disgusts me.
[+] [-] ktRolster|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kriro|10 years ago|reply
Company culture at Yelp sounds horrible. Tell someone they can come in or get fired over the phone while they are in the ICU is pretty bad. The other stuff mentioned is also bad.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] danso|10 years ago|reply
I'm not experienced in sales...but how is this a good deal for the author, nevermind tenable? This, plus the 300% loan she mentions...I wonder what the Yelp recruiting pitch was to her? To give her the benefit of the doubt, it'd have to be that Yelp overpromised on commissions for her to take such a risk.
But Yelp or no Yelp, this is just a difficult situation overall, and one that continues to increase the admiration I have for women who can deal with pregnancy/motherhood and go for a high-pace job, tech or anywhere (how the F did Ada Lovelace manage 3 pregnancies in her day?)...I'd love to hear from other companies -- whether it be traditional ones or established tech companies like Google/Facebook -- about how they've dealt with similar extreme situations, if ever? My conception of Yelp is that it's not doing so hot financially and so, malice or not, has just poorly prepared itself to deal with the author's situation, such that a manager/CEO can justify being abrupt because "it's her, or the overall company". Whereas a much more stable company with all the tech amenities has more flexibility in practicing "humaneness"
[+] [-] PaulRobinson|10 years ago|reply
You: OK, what could those be?
Yelp: Well, if you work hard, you could be looking at 25% of sales you book, and we'd be expecting you to be doing $15k-$30k of sales a month, so let's take the lower end of that, and assume an additional $45k a year bringing you up to near $70k/year. Whilst you're here you're gaining great experience at a great company
You: Well, currently my life is utter crap and this seems like a good way to provide for my kid given I can't afford to go to school, so, OK...
Now can't you see how this might play out?
[+] [-] josh_fyi|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] josh_fyi|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] radu_floricica|10 years ago|reply
- you want to fire them anyways and are just looking for an excuse
- there are recurring issues and this is just the last drop in a bucket - in which case the firing incident could very well be relatively trivial
> I am the single mother who was the top of my class in training for you Jeremy
It does not make financial sense for a company to fire a top employee for missing a day, evil or not.
[+] [-] scandox|10 years ago|reply
Real efficiency on Yelp's part would be controlled flexibility. If what we read is accurate then they are losing out because of excessive rigidity.
We can't make employment a zero sum game. Humans are too valuable.
[+] [-] dev360|10 years ago|reply
Still, sure there are great companies in the US that emulate perks and benefits that you take for granted in the rest of the western world, but for the most part, I have always felt I've needed to start my own business to rid myself of this craziness and be able to afford myself some basic measure of work/life balance.
[+] [-] raarts|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] b6|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] diskcat|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] clockwerx|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cpks|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] haffla|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] robryan|10 years ago|reply
Surely though, the loss of morale from fellow employees over an incident like this is not worth it, unless you want to reinforce some kind of authoritarian workplace where people better keep quiet and stay in line if they want to continue being employed.
[+] [-] jonesb6|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jonesb6|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] purpleidea|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] free2rhyme214|10 years ago|reply