[raesene2]

But surely they're not closing off the pc platform, just potentially restricting what can happen on their OS. You can still use PCs with linux without any lock in. Long gone are the days when Microsoft was a monopoly on client computing devices, these days we have linux, Mac osx, chrome OS, Android, steamOS and iOS.

Several of these other platforms are already closed to one degree on another, with iOS probably being the most restrictive, so I'm not sure I see Microsoft as being dominent enough to warrant a claim of monopoly power any more

[speeder]

I needed to buy a computer some years ago.

My favourite OS is Fedora.

First thing, is I find out that all manufacturers only were selling non-Windows machines at a significant markup, the only way this made sense to me is if Microsoft is actively bribing them (ie: "selling" windows for a negative price).

So I thought, I would just buy this cool Windows 8 laptop, and remove Windows 8, since it is crap anyway.

Well... no, I am still using that Windows 8 (now 8.1, after it forcefully upgraded itself), because for some reason (maybe a UEFI bug) I can't make anything that ins't Windows that came installed to boot, not even Windows install discs boot, much less Linux discs, and yes, I did disabled SecureBoot, but it still blocks everything except Windows 8 itself from booting (this mean I can't use Memtestx86 either)

If that ins't closed, I dunno what is.

[SloopJon]

> First thing, is I find out that all manufacturers only were selling non-Windows machines at a significant markup, the only way this made sense to me is if Microsoft is actively bribing them (ie: "selling" windows for a negative price).

It's not Microsoft bribing them, it's the crapware vendors.

[raesene2]

So your pc or fedora has a bug which prevents you changing os and it then follows that Microsoft have a monopoly power in PCs... Sorry I don't quite think that follows

[pistle]

The vendor knows that if someone WANTS a non-windows PC, they are going to be willing to pay more, so the price goes up. They also are implementing a whole new process for a small set of customers which increases their costs. They pass those directly on to the consumers with the need/want. It's the special flower luxury tax.

[frik]

They are, PC manufacturer have to lock down the hardware for Win10. Good luck trying to install Linux/FreeBSD/etc on a new notebook. Microsoft is using their desktop monopoly and OEM cartel to lock down the platform.

reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Extensible_Firmware_In...

[raesene2]

I have bought and installed linux on laptops from hp and Lenovo with no problems at all. Also you can buy laptops from Dell with linux pre-installed.

Can you provide any citations for the assertion that Microsoft are currently (2016) forcing hardware companies to tie their products to Windows?

[obsurveyor]

I think it's a different story when it's been there from the beginning and developers choose to join your platform versus leveraging your huge already captured market.

[raesene2]

So a company who doesn't have a monopoly should be restricted from changing their product because it didn't use to be that way....

Seems a bit harsh to me... if Microsoft still occupied the same kind of dominent position they did 15 years ago it would be a different story, but now there are a lot more viable alternatives