How cancer cells fuel their growth

[andy_ppp]

Dom D’Agostino on various things about Ketosis and Cancer fighting.

http://fourhourworkweek.com/2015/11/03/dominic-dagostino/

Ted Talk here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fM9o72ykww

I'm going to try the Bullet Proof Coffee recipe I think!

[rhinoceraptor]

Make sure you blend it. If you don't blend it, it will not taste good. No amount of hand stirring will cause the oil and water to mix well.

I use one of these gadgets [1] for this task.

1: http://www.amazon.com/Ikea-Milk-Frother-303-011-67-Black/dp/...

[petegrif]

It can scarcely be described as coffee. To my taste it is an unspeakably vile tasting concoction.

[barney54]

For much more information on this argument about sugar and cancer, see the book Cancer as a Metabolic Disease. http://www.amazon.com/Cancer-Metabolic-Disease-Management-Pr...

[joveian]

Here is a good article on the fermentation aspect of cancer that seems to have not appeared on HN: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-fermentation-g...

Dispite what the title could sound like, the article is not linking any food with cancer, but talking about how cancer cells use fermentation for energy.

[garyclarke27]

A low carb diet has been proven to inhibit the development of most cancers, because of their huge requirement for glucose. The obvious conclusion from this research is that low carb AND low protein diet is the best option to inhibit cancer. Kind of also supports leading bio hackers such as Dave Asprey creator of Bulletproof coffee. His podcasts are brilliant, they have made a big impression on me - as a result I've switched to a higher fat less protein less carbs diet and feel much better for it and i have far more energy.

[_0w8t]

This does not explain how people in rural China that eat mostly carbs with very little fat and consume 25% calories more per body mass than westerners have noticeably less rates of most cancers. Only their rate for stomach cancer is significantly elevated compared with Western levels.

[agumonkey]

This guy advocates for keto by cutting sugar http://quantifiedself.com/2015/12/effects-year-ketosis-jim-m...

He measures a lot of molecules in his blood streams and noticed reduced inflammation amongts other benefits.

I find his short talk nice and detailed although I'm a total newcomer.

[belorn]

I would be very careful in making such judgment. If you have a cancer which is stealing the available protein from other cells, reducing the total amount of protein might reduce the cancer growth or it might just reduce the already declining supply for the healthy cells.

[atomical]

Bulletproof coffee is a scam.

[_Wintermute]

And yet in this week's nature is an article linking high dietary fat to intestinal and colorectal cancers. Don't base your diet on someone's podcast, especially if they're trying to sell you something.

[trhway]

>The obvious conclusion from this research is that low carb AND low protein diet is the best option to inhibit cancer.

another obvious related conclusion is to couple it with good oxygenation (ie. physical workout, etc..) as low carb/glucose with good oxygenation would provide enough energy for healthy cells where is cancer cells would be starving.

[biomcgary]

There are at least two reasons that cancer prefer energy from fermenting glucose and using glutamine. First, both molecules provide readily available energy that is easy to import quickly. Second, fermentation avoids using the mitochondria, which, in addition to being the cell's powerhouse, is also its executioner by way of apoptosis.

[tosseraccount]

"A low carb diet has been proven to inhibit the development of most cancers"

I am curious. Do you have a link to this proof?

[noondip]

Citation, please. Not from someone who sells products, either. A low-carb diet makes no sense, because cancer-fighting fruits and vegetables, for example, are mostly carbs, whereas foods typically associated with high-fat eating (namely: meat, dairy) are proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be a major catalyst of various cancers.

Bottom line: the healthiest diets are those that revolve around whole plant foods.

[CommanderData]

Very interesting. What does this mean for low carb, high protein diets heavily promoted these days (Keto)?

Reminds me of this talk on TED - William Li, Anti-Angiogenesis therapy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjkzfeJz66o

Does this research mean these diets and therapies are less effective than previously thought?

[jtmarmon]

Keto is not low carb, high protein. It's high fat, low carb, moderate protein. On keto you eat the standard recommended amount of protein (depending on your athleticism, it'll be around .69-1.2g per lb of LBM). Most of your calories come from fat.

My breakfast this morning was coffee with butter and MCT oil

[KayEss]

The Warburg effect is a metabolic pathway involving anaerobic burning of glucose. When cells consume fats instead of sugar it must be aerobically. Burning glucose aerobically is much more efficient than doing so without O2.

The belief is that this means that low carb diets should be a good preventative for cancers as they remove the metabolic pathway needed by the cancer cells as there isn't enough glucose for them.

EDIT: Here is an article that goes into this in a bit more depth: http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/way-exploit-metabolic-qui...

[erkkie]

I believe most of these diets promote low carb, high fat, moderate protein. In general consuming more protein than needed for cellular maintenance does little good and gets converted to energy through additional steps; since it's easier to get energy from carbs or fat it makes sense to consume only enough protein, not less, not more.

[rhinoceraptor]

A ketogenic diet can't be high protein. A ketogenic diet is one where the body enters nutritional ketosis, and to do that it has to be somewhere around 60% fat, or more.

[raverbashing]

The effect is probably small

The body is very efficient at turning protein and fat into energy

However the issue with proteins/amino-acids is that the body actually needs them and can't convert carbs or fats into them (you actually need some of the amino-acids).

Maybe the cure is to limit your protein intake but that poses other problems

[jwdunne]

No to high protein. Too much protein gets converted into glucose, kinda defeating the purpose.

[venomsnake]

Not much - they use amino acids as building blocks. Still ferment glucose for energy.

[nkozyra]

This is not my area of expertise by any means, but wouldn't this assume that cancer would grow proportional to the amount of fuel available? Normal cells certainly don't operate this way.

[tosseraccount]

Two words. Clinical Trials.

Link to real paper is here : http://www.cell.com/developmental-cell/fulltext/S1534-5807%2...

("please login")

[loopdedoo]

Here it is: http://sci-hub.bz/10.1016/j.devcel.2016.02.012

Pay walls are pretty annoying, but quite easy to get around these days due to several community efforts:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Scholar

https://www.researchgate.net (you can "Request full text" from a researcher)

I'm sure there are others.

[jasonkolb]

I became really interested in this a while back after watching a fascinating BBC documentary about fasting. It stated that cancer could not grow in the absence of IGF-1 (a growth hormone secreted in response to protein ingestion). I did a bunch of research and found barely anything out there about it, but the little I found did seem to back it up.

I recommend anyone interested in this topic watch this film, it's great: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvdbtt_eat-fast-live-longer...

[signa11]

kind of tangential to the topic, but, if someone is interested in knowing about the history of the disease etc. the book "the emperor of all maladies" is an excellent introduction.

[DanielBMarkham]

I wonder how effective the following strategy would be:

As soon as you are diagnosed with any type of cancer, begin an immediate fast (duration TBD). The reasoning is that it hurts the cancer more than you, plus it provides a temporary boost in your immune system.

It probably wouldn't provide a huge advantage, but heck, even if it only improves overall survival 1-3%? It'd be worth it.

[rubicon33]

I like the idea. An immediate fast, though for how long I'm not sure.

Follow that with a raw vegan diet, with lots of avocados and cilantro.

Add traditional cancer treatment methods.

[koevet]

Does it mean that protein intake should be lowered to reduce cancer risk?

[signa11]

> Does it mean that protein intake should be lowered to reduce cancer risk?

without having any clue about the topic, i just googled around, and apparently, this paper from NIH : http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3988204/ seem to suggest that it (Low Protein Intake) does help, up to some degree.

[ekianjo]

Not cancer risk, cancer growth. i.e. angiogenesis. And that does not say that at all since amino acids are the building blocks of every cell in your body anyway.

[roadnottaken]

No.

[noondip]

Yes, of course. The World Health Organization and pretty much every other respectable, not-for-profit medical authority in the world recommends fewer than 10% of calories from protein in a healthy diet. Especially limiting animal protein, and preferring plant-based protein, is important for avoiding cancers.

[timrpeterson]

It's a good study from high quality researchers, but to be fair there is a study almost every week for the last 50 years saying something like this.

[fordarnold]

References please?

[qtb1137]

thought the answer to the headline was going to be -- "with venture capitalist dollar"

[qtb1137]

thought the answer to the headline was going to be -- "with venture capitalist dollars"

[dschiptsov]

This is rather ironic. Anyone in a developing world would tell you that malnutrition is exactly what happen due to lack of proteins. But there is no life outside biology departments of top US universities.