I think it's really impressive what Dell has put together here. As my old Thinkpad T430 is nearing it's fourth anniversary I have been looking for an upgrade for a while and compared different options with a focus on lightweight, powerful laptops with good Linux support. And so far the XPS 13 seems way more attractive than the new Lenovo Skylake laptops (e.g. the 460s), which have lower resolution displays (some models still start with a 1.366 x 768 (!) display, which is just ridiculous in 2016), less and slower RAM, smaller hard drives and -as far as I can tell from the specs- less battery life as compared to the XPS 13 but are actually 300 - 400 $ more expensive, even when choosing three year guarantee for the XPS. The only thing I don't like about the XPS is Dell's guarantee, which is "send in", meaning that I probably won't see my laptop for a few weeks if it has to be repaired, whereas Lenovo will send a service technician to me who will usually be able to repair the laptop immediately (I already had to make use of this service twice, once to exchange a noisy fan and once to replace a broken display bezel).
I guess I'll wait for Apple to reveal the new MB Pro line before making a decision, but it seems that for the first time in 10 years my next laptop will not be a Lenovo/IBM.
> And so far the XPS 13 seems way more attractive than the new Lenovo Skylake laptops (e.g. the 460s), which have lower resolution displays (some models still start with a 1.366 x 768 (!) display,
Laptop shopping is so frustrating because almost all of the manufacturers are clearly segmenting the market into two groups: shit and non-shit. In the shit group, you get painfully slow HDDs and painfully low res displays that would feel right at home on a laptop from a decade ago. In the non-shit group, you get SSDs, good displays, and prices that are two to three times higher even though the actual cost of the components hasn't gone up by nearly that much.
It's infuriating, not so much for myself (I end up wanting the high-end anyway), but when trying to give recommendations to friends and family on more limited budgets, because the entire lower end of the market is unnecessarily terrible. I just end up recommending Chromebooks because, hey, at least a lot of them have SSDs, and they're cheap. The screens typically suck, but when you're paying so little it doesn't feel like getting ripped off. Buying a mainstream $600 laptop feels like getting ripped off.
I'm pretty sure Dell sells 'premium support' as a paid add-on, and that it covers on-site hardware repairs. I've used this service myself, albeit many years ago, to have a laptop motherboard replaced.
If you add this option, then the two laptops you're comparing may be closer in terms of price and support. Then it's just about the other factors you mention.
The XPS13 appears to have a junk trackpad (no buttons, no middle button) and a messed up keyboard (I don't always use the arrows but when I do, those tiny ones suck.) And no trackpoint? Despite better other specs, poor basic human interaction devices are a showstopper. ThinkPads are the only ones I've seen with fairly good keyboards (even after Lenovo's "redesign").
Dell does have on call service, and in some countries it's better than Lenovo by far. I've had Dell send a guy into a village up a mountain in a 3rd world country, next day (!) whereas I couldn't even figure out how to make a claim with Lenovo in that country (and friends that work for the relevant company there confirm there is no inventory).
I really like my new puri.sm laptop (the librem 13") ... especially the fact that it doesn't require any non-free bits in the distribution (in my case, debian stretch). I know some folks have issues with the fact that there are non-free bits under the hood (bios, etc...) but if what you're looking for is a solid, compact laptop with modern internals (I'm looking at you, my beloved Thinkpad x200) that can run a "pure" OS sans non-free components it fits the bill.
I should also note there was a recent price drop for the 13" model. I also love the hardware wifi/bluetooth and camera/mic on/off switches.
> Lenovo will send a service technician to me who will usually be able to repair the laptop immediately
What is this guarantee called and where is it available?
Here in Russia, I've had experience of giving away my ThinkPad to the service company for 2 months; they didn't call and the call center girl could not provide further information than "it's being worked on" (the law here requires service centers to complete repairs of such equipment in 3 months,). When I finally had enough and went to the service center for the explainations, or to retrieve my laptop back, and asked them what took them so long, they said they have "emailed IBM but they didn't answer back" (it was a while back and my ThinkPad was X60s, from IBM). It even was working, I just had some issues I wanted them to work through (e.g. the cooling system became noisier and hotter, apparently having been clogged with dust; etc.)
The Dell Latitude E7250 works pretty well, Debian Jessie is missing some drivers and things (eg for Wifi) but Linux Mint (ugh, I know...) works wonderfully well. I haven't tried Ubuntu but I would expect the same experience or better. I was worried about the trackpad being horrible, but I'm actually quite impressed. It's not an Apple trackpad but it's actually pretty decent. (The Disable-Trackpad-While-typing option is almost a requirement though)
Edit: I would emphasize though, if you're going to purchase with Dell, do it as a business (Just pretend you are a business, dont buy it through work). Dell consumer customer support is f#$&ing atrocious. I'm still fighting with them to rectify a problem from an order back in Nov 2015 that I never received. I can't overstate this enough, Dell consumer support is f$#&ing HORRIBLE.
I've an XPS 13, and I like it a lot. I use i3 as my window manager which, due to being keyboard driven, is quite infuriating on this device. The trackpad is incredibly sensitive and the heel of my hand being within 2" or so will trigger a contact. I've attempted to lessen the sensitivity to no avail. Most of the time this isn't an issue because I'm using an external keyboard and mouse, but when I'm on the road it drives me nuts. Enough so that I now remote work on an mbp, and desk work on the XPS.
If you're looking for lightweight, high spec, go for the ThinkPad X1 Carbon. It's a gorgeous machine. Leaps and bounds better than MBPs. The XPS15 is about on par with the X1C
Honest question: I am a bit concerned about 1080p resolution on a 13" screen. Isn't too small to read ? Or do most people just increase the rendering quality (à la retina) ?
While thinkpad has removed BIOS whitelist...Ubuntu has introduced charger whitelist. The forums are replete with people having a conked out charger and the replacement charger causing the laptop to run slower.
But I agree with you - the current crop of thinkpad are unworthy. I'm planning to hold on to my t430s for another year.
The killer feature in the Thinkpad line for me is the military-grade sturdiness. Does Dell have the same kind of resistance to spills, drops, heat, etc.?
I thought the "Microsoft tax" was effectively negative these days, i.e that Microsoft wanted Dell to sell Windows machines so OEM licenses are very cheap, but more importantly that the crapware bundlers were also paying the manufacturers to have the trial of their particular AV software pre installed.
That's why I'm surprised the Ubuntu isn't more expensive than the Windows version even if a Windows license itself would add to the cost.
I was surprised to notice that the XPS 15 comes also with quad core CPUs and supports 32GB max memory. Interesting option for those looking for desktop level performance in reasonably sized package.
Anyone know how thermal management is on high-end laptop-version Skylakes? I have a three-year-old Dell Precision 15" with a quad core i7 (Sandy Bridge) at work. If I throw work at all the cores simultaneously, it takes about 60 seconds before it starts throttling the CPU to avoid thermal overload... Which makes it a bit useless IMO. Has this improved recently?
Any info on when this (or the XPS 15 with linux) will be available in the UK? I just had a look on Dell's website, and as expected it's still a shower of shit WRT finding what you want.
I bought one of the first or 2nd gen XPS 13s and loved it. However the experience of buying from Dell was awful and customer service was so intractable as to be useless too.
I've oft wondered if these would sell better without the Dell branding. Put a nondescript logo on the back (no word), remove all "Dell".
This really annoyed me years ago when I spent a small fortune on a beautiful TV that had "COMPANY" in white letters on the otherwise perfect dark bezel.
Why would the branding matter? Any halfway serious person knows that Dell makes decent (if slightly boring and enterprisy) stuff, and that it's about what you do with it that matters, anyway. The hipsters are going to see that it's not a Macbook from a mile away, Dell logo or not. If anything, I myself would be likely to assume that an unbranded laptop is something dodgy picked out of a supermarket clearance bin.
> a beautiful TV that had "COMPANY" in white letters on the otherwise perfect dark bezel
That distracts from watching the screen and so actually affects the primary operation of the TV. I'd argue that's a very different matter than the presence of a logo on a laptop lid that you can't even see when using the computer.
Love it, thought I would not use it, but actually, when typing, if it's a pop up window, touch is quicker then trackpoint or pad to tap away, swiping windows to lock them to the sides is good, swipe to go forward and back in a browser, sure, it's not viable to hold your arm up and do anything intensive, but for single location taps, I like it!
There will be a non-touch option (a matte 1080p screen): "The i5 configuration will come with 8GB RAM, a 256GB SSD and FHD NT. The timing of the i5 config is dependent on the depletion of the current inventory on hand." From the project lead's blog: http://bartongeorge.net/2016/03/10/xps-13-developer-edition-...
Its useless. Hopefully doesn't get in your way. I had it disabled for a while, until some update overwrite my settings. I perhaps didn't realize this for quite some time, and later just didn't care to re-edit the config.
Otherwise, it good laptop. I'm happy with my decision.
I have a 'Dell precision m3800' and it has a touchscreen. Never touched it. It came with ubuntu preinstalled, and the first thing I did was a full reinstall: these manufacturers tend to just have 1 partition for everything, while I prefer another scheme ( /home really needs to be a separate partition IMNSHO)
XPS13 / QHD / Touch user here (last years model). I've used it rarely but it works without flaws. (Well, firefox can't really handle multitouch on X11, but that's a whole different story).
Only problem is that it's incompatible with kids.
"Hey, what's that? TAP"
I have a different 13" laptop with a touchscreen (also Dell, but not XPS), and while I don't use it a huge amount I do quite like being able to quickly tap at stuff now and then. Personally I wouldn't pay more than a very small amount to upgrade to a touchscreen, but I don't mind having it there, and I've not had any issues caused by it at all.
(Disclaimer: I used to work on marketing - Dell was my client, not my employer - for the brand I'm using, which is Alienware. Currently I have no connection to Dell/Alienware other than friends working there and trying to decide whether to keep using my Alienware 13 or to switch to an XPS 13...)
I use a Microsoft Surface, and don't use the touchscreen most of the time (type cover + USB mouse are almost always connected). It is nice to have though - some things (like zooming into a certain section of a webpage) are more convenient with the touch screen (I've actually caught myself about to reach out and touch my non-touch desktop monitor a couple of times...)
I am running Arch on the non-developer edition XPS 15 (late 2015 edition). Initially the touchpad was occasionally not recognised, then having a touchscreen is really useful :) Other than that, I got it because there was no HiDPi screen without touch. And HiDPi is definitely worth it.
Bought a used first or second gen Developer Edition XPS13 last year, installed Mint 17.2 on it and have been very pleasantly surprised. Pretty much just as functional as my old MBP for half the price :)
Did sth similar here with a XPS15 (9530). Installed Ubuntu 15.10 on it, most of it works pretty smooth. A second screen is a bit of a hassle if you don't get a 3200x1800-one. Besides that I didn't really have issues. Touch also works fine ;)
I have ordered a few midline desktops from dell for testing their Ubuntu setup. In the end I wiped and installed my own, and the eula that pops up on first boot was fucking ridiculous, I mean I know they like tonpush the boundaries for self protection, and I understand things like wanted to keep any issues in their jurisdiction and stuff like that, but clauses in the eula stated you waved all rights including constitutional ones (yes, the word constitutional was used in the actual eula,) agreed to forfeit any trial by jury or anybother legal procedure except private arbitration in Dells jurisdiction, and some other stuff that really bothered me to see as the first thing that popped up on first boot.
Lots of it is obviously totally unenforceable and wouldnt stand in court, but they put it in there anyway just because they can get away with it.
If you're not looking for an ultra book. I've got a 7510 Dell Precision Laptop base. i7-6820HQ supports upto 64gb of ram in the laptop, 2 ram slots above keyboard, 2 below. Supports 1 m.2 epci nvme, 1 sata3. I've Samsung 950 Pro NVME 512gb ssd, 1 2tb Samsung Evo 850. I don't believe the NVME works w/o AHCI booting. My experience with linux on this laptop was bar none one of the best. I did have to install ubuntu 15.10, but everything worked without a hitch. This laptop also worked with optimus graphics chip switching. Quadro 4gb DDR4 M2002 chip. Battery is really impressive. Monitor is 4k matted. It's probably the best laptop I've ever owned. Since I purchased it, it now comes with usb type-c w/ thunderbolt 40gbit support. So you can get a really nice fancy docking port for it. Also I've a 2014 macbook pro fully loaded and this is only 1lb heavier than that was. You can also get a xeon chip on this platform. http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m7510-workstatio...
History repeats: the Dell Inspiron that just crapped out on me (somewhat) after years of use was their first Linux model. It also had Ubuntu by default. Great laptop. Interesting enough, after all the updates, I'm having trouble finding something that works out of the box that's not Ubuntu. It's running Fedora fine right now but software management is totally different from my Debian-based experience. Might ditch it. ;)
The previous models didn't support DFS in wifi 5ghz making them unable to work in high density wifi environments. Actually what's worse is that they randomically lose connection on a DFS AP (when the channel gets into one of the DFS-reserved ones they can't access). So you basically have to force them on 2.4 or disable DFS on the APs.
This applied to both the Broadcom and Intel wifi. Any chance these models are better in this regard?
It's nice to see Dell beginning to actually adopt Linux and Ubuntu. I always kind of figured part of the strategy of going private was to be able to move away from the status quo of being just another Windows vendor... By offering choice and eliminating lock-in, they can go after techie types and serious users who otherwise would have probably just bought a ThinkPad or MBP.
This is great, but Thinkpads have always had good Linux support. I have a friend who bought the previous XPS 13 Ubuntu edition and it had all kinds of problems which are only being worked out now, problems that aren't present on most Thinkpads.
I got the X1 Yoga one month after it came out, installed an alpha version of Ubuntu 16.04 on it and everything just works, including the touch screen.
I've had great luck with Dells for Linux support. Lubuntu on Latitudes has run flawlessly over the years.
It is unfortunate that Dell chose to use small arrow keys and at the same time overload the arrow keys with the 'Home-End-PgUp-PgDown'. Hard to believe this layout was chosen for their Latitude and Precision lines too.
I’ve been running Arch Linux on the non-developer edition XPS 15, and I’ve experienced very little problems. Occasionally the touchpad does not work, and sometimes headphone audio is silent. Other than that, everything works like a charm, even the Broadcom WiFi adapter.
[+] [-] ThePhysicist|10 years ago|reply
I guess I'll wait for Apple to reveal the new MB Pro line before making a decision, but it seems that for the first time in 10 years my next laptop will not be a Lenovo/IBM.
[+] [-] CydeWeys|10 years ago|reply
Laptop shopping is so frustrating because almost all of the manufacturers are clearly segmenting the market into two groups: shit and non-shit. In the shit group, you get painfully slow HDDs and painfully low res displays that would feel right at home on a laptop from a decade ago. In the non-shit group, you get SSDs, good displays, and prices that are two to three times higher even though the actual cost of the components hasn't gone up by nearly that much.
It's infuriating, not so much for myself (I end up wanting the high-end anyway), but when trying to give recommendations to friends and family on more limited budgets, because the entire lower end of the market is unnecessarily terrible. I just end up recommending Chromebooks because, hey, at least a lot of them have SSDs, and they're cheap. The screens typically suck, but when you're paying so little it doesn't feel like getting ripped off. Buying a mainstream $600 laptop feels like getting ripped off.
[+] [-] rahimnathwani|10 years ago|reply
If you add this option, then the two laptops you're comparing may be closer in terms of price and support. Then it's just about the other factors you mention.
[+] [-] MichaelGG|10 years ago|reply
Dell does have on call service, and in some countries it's better than Lenovo by far. I've had Dell send a guy into a village up a mountain in a 3rd world country, next day (!) whereas I couldn't even figure out how to make a claim with Lenovo in that country (and friends that work for the relevant company there confirm there is no inventory).
[+] [-] berkeleynerd|10 years ago|reply
I should also note there was a recent price drop for the 13" model. I also love the hardware wifi/bluetooth and camera/mic on/off switches.
[+] [-] listic|10 years ago|reply
What is this guarantee called and where is it available?
Here in Russia, I've had experience of giving away my ThinkPad to the service company for 2 months; they didn't call and the call center girl could not provide further information than "it's being worked on" (the law here requires service centers to complete repairs of such equipment in 3 months,). When I finally had enough and went to the service center for the explainations, or to retrieve my laptop back, and asked them what took them so long, they said they have "emailed IBM but they didn't answer back" (it was a while back and my ThinkPad was X60s, from IBM). It even was working, I just had some issues I wanted them to work through (e.g. the cooling system became noisier and hotter, apparently having been clogged with dust; etc.)
[+] [-] click170|10 years ago|reply
Edit: I would emphasize though, if you're going to purchase with Dell, do it as a business (Just pretend you are a business, dont buy it through work). Dell consumer customer support is f#$&ing atrocious. I'm still fighting with them to rectify a problem from an order back in Nov 2015 that I never received. I can't overstate this enough, Dell consumer support is f$#&ing HORRIBLE.
[+] [-] dayjah|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sergiosgc|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnchristopher|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sandGorgon|10 years ago|reply
But I agree with you - the current crop of thinkpad are unworthy. I'm planning to hold on to my t430s for another year.
[+] [-] obvio171|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaseemabid|10 years ago|reply
How awesome!
[+] [-] alkonaut|10 years ago|reply
That's why I'm surprised the Ubuntu isn't more expensive than the Windows version even if a Windows license itself would add to the cost.
[+] [-] Luyt|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jpalomaki|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] semi-extrinsic|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] radicalbyte|10 years ago|reply
The only real downside is battery life - it's better than a MBP 13 with Bootcamp but not even close to the MBP with OSX.
[+] [-] boothead|10 years ago|reply
I bought one of the first or 2nd gen XPS 13s and loved it. However the experience of buying from Dell was awful and customer service was so intractable as to be useless too.
[+] [-] abrowne|10 years ago|reply
†: http://bartongeorge.net/2016/03/10/xps-13-developer-edition-...
[+] [-] storrgie|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] latch|10 years ago|reply
This really annoyed me years ago when I spent a small fortune on a beautiful TV that had "COMPANY" in white letters on the otherwise perfect dark bezel.
[+] [-] mseebach|10 years ago|reply
> a beautiful TV that had "COMPANY" in white letters on the otherwise perfect dark bezel
That distracts from watching the screen and so actually affects the primary operation of the TV. I'd argue that's a very different matter than the presence of a logo on a laptop lid that you can't even see when using the computer.
[+] [-] benevol|10 years ago|reply
Of course it would be nice, but you can't seriously ask a commercial company to remove its identity from its products.
[+] [-] siscia|10 years ago|reply
Anyway the extra complexity that come with it doesn't makes me comfortable...
Any experiences so far ?
[+] [-] tudorw|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] abrowne|10 years ago|reply
I'm personally looking forward to this model!
[+] [-] truncate|10 years ago|reply
Otherwise, it good laptop. I'm happy with my decision.
[+] [-] toolslive|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] treffer|10 years ago|reply
Only problem is that it's incompatible with kids. "Hey, what's that? TAP"
Oh, let me press reply on the screen :-)
[+] [-] corin_|10 years ago|reply
(Disclaimer: I used to work on marketing - Dell was my client, not my employer - for the brand I'm using, which is Alienware. Currently I have no connection to Dell/Alienware other than friends working there and trying to decide whether to keep using my Alienware 13 or to switch to an XPS 13...)
[+] [-] stordoff|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Ruud-v-A|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JL2010|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kylec|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mamon|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tholford|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maartenpi_|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] forgotpwtomain|10 years ago|reply
Also slight physical tremors can cause complete system crashes. I would stay away from it.
[+] [-] davidw|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] arca_vorago|10 years ago|reply
Lots of it is obviously totally unenforceable and wouldnt stand in court, but they put it in there anyway just because they can get away with it.
Does no one do reasonable eulas/tos?
[+] [-] krob|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nickpsecurity|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] giovannibajo1|10 years ago|reply
This applied to both the Broadcom and Intel wifi. Any chance these models are better in this regard?
[+] [-] mistat|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mikeb85|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davidy123|10 years ago|reply
I got the X1 Yoga one month after it came out, installed an alpha version of Ubuntu 16.04 on it and everything just works, including the touch screen.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] manaskarekar|10 years ago|reply
It is unfortunate that Dell chose to use small arrow keys and at the same time overload the arrow keys with the 'Home-End-PgUp-PgDown'. Hard to believe this layout was chosen for their Latitude and Precision lines too.
[+] [-] Ruud-v-A|10 years ago|reply