> "Think about the time that you're living in, right, like Don Knuth, who's considered the father of computer science, is still alive and he's in this department. It's sort of like you're geometers and you're living in the time of Euclid."
The department likes to make use of this. When I was visiting Stanford after being accepted to their phd program, knuth sat with me and some fellow prospective students at one of the lunches. It was quite convincing :)
I'm utterly terrified of any CS curriculum that allows a student to graduate having taken only one year (three quarter-long classes) that require programming. What are those students going to do when they graduate? Manage? I guess it's Stanford, so they can always just join a startup...
The point of a top-tier university education in CS is much more the theoretical side of things (lambda calculus, graphics theory, np-completeness, algorithms, discrete math, etc.), which most people are less likely or able to pick up on their own. Programming as a skill requires constant practice for years, just like writing, and isn't something you can teach as easily in a 10- or 15-week course.
I would say that especially at higher-end universities, there's also an assumption that you'll figure out the programming part on your own. The rather brutal CS 248 class at Stanford, for example, requires you (or at least used to) write a 3D game using OpenGL, while the class itself is solely concerned with graphics theory, techniques, and algorithms: it doesn't cover OpenGL in the least, and the students are expected to learn it, along with whatever other technologies they need to write the game (input, sound, etc.) on their own.
That means that, yes, you can graduate with a BSCS without being a good programmer. You can also get an MS or Ph.D. in CS without being a great programmer. As a general rule, theoretical computer science and programming are very different skills, and knowledge of one aspect does not confer knowledge of the other. From all the interviewing I've done over the years, I think I can safely say that those rules apply to graduates of pretty much any college, not just Stanford.
Huh? If your track is something like Systems or Graphics you're going to be taking A LOT of programming. But even if your track is something like Human-Computer Interaction (HCI), you still have to take CS106A, CS106B, CS107, CS110 (all programming classes), plus at least one of (CS 108, 124, 140, 142, 221, 229, or 249A) which are all classes that have programming assignments.
In all likelihood you would also take a programming class for your Track B requirement.
This is in addition to at least 4 math classes, 4 science classes, and 2 engineering classes, which may not involve programming but are certainly good foundations for any programmer to have.
You know, just once -- not because of politics or practical value, just for the sheer gut-busting absurdity of it -- I'd like to see a department try to make itself more appealing to white men.
"Yep, we were concerned that the elementary education majors were 80% women, so we took a look around to see what factors we could eliminate. We started by looking at the break room, which had sort of a feminine vibe to it, filled with pastel colors, magazines featuring small children, and other things that might make a white man feel out of place or subtly unwelcome. Then we put up pictures of monster trucks, math formula posters, and pictures of successful white man teacher role models. Arnold Swartzenegger? Teacher in Kindergarten Cop. Harry Smith? Much beloved teacher in Lincoln Nebraska. This guy we found on iStockPhoto? Certainly looks like he could be a teacher.
We redesigned our curricula, too, which previously focused on "soft" subjects like how to interact with children and parents. These female-typed skills, while they can certainly be performed by your typical white man, might subtly discourage him from applying. So we broadened the curriculum to include other things teachers might need to know, such as How To Roughhouse With The Kids. And, just between you and me, because you get an A practically for showing up, rather than requiring you to demonstrate expertise in material core to this profession, it helped keep the grade averages of white men up so that they didn't wash out into easier subjects like, you know, physics or computer science or whatever it is white men are actually majoring in.
Previously all students had been required to student teach for six weeks in a room full of small children. We didn't want to give anyone the impression that that was the only thing you could do with an elementary education degree, so we have broadened the practicum requirement to allow alternatives such as "debating pedagogy on the Internet" and "writing edutainment games".
Finally, we had a panel discussion between the two white men we could find -- we were hoping to have a third but he couldn't make it, scheduling conflict because he had a diversity workshop to lead -- where they kvetched for a few hours about how difficult it is to make it as a white man in this industry and how important it was to have more panel discussions. One of them sells a book about the topic. We bought 100 copies and have added it to the mandatory reading list.
We're thinking of doing something about the tragic underrepresentation of Asian men next week. Maybe a Elementary Education Starcraft tournament? The girls come up with such good ideas."
Hey, that's my video! I cropped it out of the online video for the final lecture of CS 103B (automata)... it's pretty funny that it's the most inspirational CS-related video on Youtube (that the NYT blogger could find.)
[+] [-] jsomers|16 years ago|reply
> "Think about the time that you're living in, right, like Don Knuth, who's considered the father of computer science, is still alive and he's in this department. It's sort of like you're geometers and you're living in the time of Euclid."
[+] [-] neilc|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnswamps|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] larsberg|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] akeefer|16 years ago|reply
I would say that especially at higher-end universities, there's also an assumption that you'll figure out the programming part on your own. The rather brutal CS 248 class at Stanford, for example, requires you (or at least used to) write a 3D game using OpenGL, while the class itself is solely concerned with graphics theory, techniques, and algorithms: it doesn't cover OpenGL in the least, and the students are expected to learn it, along with whatever other technologies they need to write the game (input, sound, etc.) on their own.
That means that, yes, you can graduate with a BSCS without being a good programmer. You can also get an MS or Ph.D. in CS without being a great programmer. As a general rule, theoretical computer science and programming are very different skills, and knowledge of one aspect does not confer knowledge of the other. From all the interviewing I've done over the years, I think I can safely say that those rules apply to graduates of pretty much any college, not just Stanford.
[+] [-] jorgeortiz85|16 years ago|reply
In all likelihood you would also take a programming class for your Track B requirement.
This is in addition to at least 4 math classes, 4 science classes, and 2 engineering classes, which may not involve programming but are certainly good foundations for any programmer to have.
Source: http://ughb.stanford.edu/OSA/handbook/handbookfiles/ps09.htm...
[+] [-] defen|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] patio11|16 years ago|reply
"Yep, we were concerned that the elementary education majors were 80% women, so we took a look around to see what factors we could eliminate. We started by looking at the break room, which had sort of a feminine vibe to it, filled with pastel colors, magazines featuring small children, and other things that might make a white man feel out of place or subtly unwelcome. Then we put up pictures of monster trucks, math formula posters, and pictures of successful white man teacher role models. Arnold Swartzenegger? Teacher in Kindergarten Cop. Harry Smith? Much beloved teacher in Lincoln Nebraska. This guy we found on iStockPhoto? Certainly looks like he could be a teacher.
We redesigned our curricula, too, which previously focused on "soft" subjects like how to interact with children and parents. These female-typed skills, while they can certainly be performed by your typical white man, might subtly discourage him from applying. So we broadened the curriculum to include other things teachers might need to know, such as How To Roughhouse With The Kids. And, just between you and me, because you get an A practically for showing up, rather than requiring you to demonstrate expertise in material core to this profession, it helped keep the grade averages of white men up so that they didn't wash out into easier subjects like, you know, physics or computer science or whatever it is white men are actually majoring in.
Previously all students had been required to student teach for six weeks in a room full of small children. We didn't want to give anyone the impression that that was the only thing you could do with an elementary education degree, so we have broadened the practicum requirement to allow alternatives such as "debating pedagogy on the Internet" and "writing edutainment games".
Finally, we had a panel discussion between the two white men we could find -- we were hoping to have a third but he couldn't make it, scheduling conflict because he had a diversity workshop to lead -- where they kvetched for a few hours about how difficult it is to make it as a white man in this industry and how important it was to have more panel discussions. One of them sells a book about the topic. We bought 100 copies and have added it to the mandatory reading list.
We're thinking of doing something about the tragic underrepresentation of Asian men next week. Maybe a Elementary Education Starcraft tournament? The girls come up with such good ideas."
[+] [-] kalvin|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] code0|16 years ago|reply