Reasonable person standard. A civilian does not typically get that close to a police. If I got that close to a traffic cop, I would probably be in jail.
Police are civilians. Some people see this as hair-splitting, but it's a very important distinction.
> If I got that close to a traffic cop, I would probably be in jail.
In the US, if you're jailed just for being in close proximity to a police officer, then you've been jailed illegally. (If, however, you refuse to give the guy some room when he asks for it, then you can be detained and (maybe) jailed.)
> Police are civilians ... it's a very important distinction.
The misuse of the word is a symptom of the real problem, it is deeply ingrained in police culture that they are fundamentally different. I think it was one of Dave Grossman's books, an author that enjoys a military and LEO following, that put forward the idea that they are sheepdogs - protecting the flock from the wolves. So that is a big problem, as the idea has gotten picked up in popular culture.
I don't really mind cops insisting that they aren't civilians, because I agree with them to a point - the root word doesn't seem to apply anymore. That is unlikely to change without a major overhaul in the standard escalation of force model, where the officer is taught to control a situation by being one level of force above everybody else - making them aggressors by default.
> Police are civilians. Some people see this as hair-splitting, but it's a very important distinction.
I've heard that before, but never seen any good support for it. I checked several dictionaries, and they say that police are not civilians. Here are the definitions of "civilian" they give.
New Oxford American Dictionary: "a person not in the armed services or the police force".
Merriam-Webster: "one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force".
Cambridge English Dictionary: "a person who is not a member of the police, the armed forces, or a fire department".
Dictionary.com (which uses Random House, I believe): "a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization"
Macmillan: "someone who does not belong to the military or the police".
There are some contexts in which "civilian" means anyone not in the military, but those are generally situations dealing with international laws of war or military law.
simoncion|10 years ago
...do you live in the US?
> A civilian...
Police are civilians. Some people see this as hair-splitting, but it's a very important distinction.
> If I got that close to a traffic cop, I would probably be in jail.
In the US, if you're jailed just for being in close proximity to a police officer, then you've been jailed illegally. (If, however, you refuse to give the guy some room when he asks for it, then you can be detained and (maybe) jailed.)
woodman|10 years ago
The misuse of the word is a symptom of the real problem, it is deeply ingrained in police culture that they are fundamentally different. I think it was one of Dave Grossman's books, an author that enjoys a military and LEO following, that put forward the idea that they are sheepdogs - protecting the flock from the wolves. So that is a big problem, as the idea has gotten picked up in popular culture.
I don't really mind cops insisting that they aren't civilians, because I agree with them to a point - the root word doesn't seem to apply anymore. That is unlikely to change without a major overhaul in the standard escalation of force model, where the officer is taught to control a situation by being one level of force above everybody else - making them aggressors by default.
tzs|10 years ago
I've heard that before, but never seen any good support for it. I checked several dictionaries, and they say that police are not civilians. Here are the definitions of "civilian" they give.
New Oxford American Dictionary: "a person not in the armed services or the police force".
Merriam-Webster: "one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force".
Cambridge English Dictionary: "a person who is not a member of the police, the armed forces, or a fire department".
Dictionary.com (which uses Random House, I believe): "a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval, police, or fire fighting organization"
Macmillan: "someone who does not belong to the military or the police".
There are some contexts in which "civilian" means anyone not in the military, but those are generally situations dealing with international laws of war or military law.