Commenting on this post while I'm at a coffee shop myself.
If I had to pick one city for having the best coffee shops, it would probably be Tel Aviv.
The coffee is great, all coffee shops are laptop friendly (and gladly provide you with the wifi password), and people are very open to social interaction with strangers.
At any given moment you'll find a designer working on a logo, an architecture student reading a post blasting gentrification, entrepreneurs discussing their new startup, or freelancers looking for a break from working at home.
Tel Aviv coffee shops are also very dog friendly, and that's always a great conversation starter.
I often find that "could you watch my laptop while i go to the bathroom?" followed by "hey, what are you working on?" is usually the best way to get to know new people.
I even find that I'm a lot more productive when I work at a coffee shop instead of an office. A coffee shop provides with just enough distraction and people watching when you need to take a break, but not enough that you completely lose concentration and focus.
Admittedly I've never been to Israel, but I'd argue that Ho Chi Minh City (and Vietnam in general) has by far the best cafe culture of any city in the world. Vietnam is the 2nd leading coffee producer in the world, and the past French colonial rule has deeply ingrained coffee (as well as baguettes) in the Viet culture.
HCMC has more cafes than any other city in the world, basically 2-3 cafes per block. While most cafes are quite simple, there are hundreds that are just as hip and modern (if not more so) as anything that you'd find in the western world. You also get unique types of cafes such as garden cafes with huge trees and waterfalls and pet cafes with fuzzy cats/exotic birds lounging about. Many open 24 hours as well.
Best part about it is from ordering a single coffee (for about $1), you get free tea refills all day. No one ever pressures you to leave and everywhere has very good quality, free wifi.
This link is pretty out of date (and mostly focuses on city center) [0] but shows some of the places available. You can also use Google translate on Vietnam's version of Yelp and click on some of the cafe collections to get a more thorough idea. [1]
> A coffee shop provides with just enough distraction and people watching when you need to take a break, but not enough that you completely lose concentration and focus.
This right here is why I get so much done in coffee shops. It's almost like white noise that keeps you focused without day dreaming.
When I lived in Denver I was 100% remote worker and would work every afternoon in one of three coffee shops. One shop was a chain, but they were very friendly and eventually I knew all the people who worked there. The other 2 were local.
One of them was owned and run by this guy who literally loved coffee. He would talk about new beans he got that 'spoke' to him. His coffee is still some of the best I ever had. He also just let me run a tab and I would pay him every month.
The final place was more of a cafe. It was large, and would sometimes have live music starting in the late afternoon. It also had a lot of people who worked from there that I got to know. I asked the owner once if hanging out there all day bothered her and she said if people bought something once every hour or two she was coming out ahead. So I made sure to do that anytime I was there.
I miss working in random places, since they really led me to focus for some reason.
So what you're saying is Tel Aviv coffee shops are ideal for tech workers? Got to remember most of the world could care less about the logo designer, the architect, the programmer, etc. It worries me that tech is becoming a social club where you're either in it it completely or out of it. What's it like to be a low-wage blue collar worker in SF outside of the tech industry? This post would make it seems like they have nothing to talk about.
I tend to agree with you. I haven't been to Tel Aviv in a while... could you recommend 2-3 places that are worth checking out? I will be back there for a week in September.
> I love looking in through the outside window and seeing everyone on MacBooks, it’s busy, it’s exciting and yet you’ll get someone walking passed saying ‘Oh my god, look in there, everyone is on a laptop! What’s wrong with them! Why don’t they talk to each other!?’
This is funny, because it perfectly describes the difference in attitude between me and my father. He gets annoyed when he walks into a coffee shop and sees everyone on their phones and laptops. On the other hand, I think the atmosphere is quite cozy, and love taking my own stuff to work on to that kind of cheerful environment. I almost never start a conversation, but I do enjoy being around other people.
> I think the atmosphere is quite cozy, and love taking my own stuff to work on
I can remember a time (1980's and earlier) when the modern version of the coffee shop didn't exist.
The nearest equivalent was a bar: Dimly lit, filled with smoke, loud annoying music, aggressive people, and a waiter coming around every 10 minutes to ask/demand if you want another drink. If you dared bring in some papers or a book to read, you'd get dirty looks, rude comments, or worse.
Thank god for the modern coffee shop and the shift in attitude.
My father used to blast me for years for being on my laptop all the time. Today he actually spends more time with his laptop at coffee shops than I do.
"what everyone hates about urban change and gentrification – first come the creatives and their coffee shops, then the young professionals, then the luxury high-rises and corporate chains that push out original residents"
I personally have no problem with it. And if we're talking about crappy and dangerous neighborhoods that are becoming upscale - I love it.
If anything I think it's the sort of process that benefits majority of population while extracting a cost on a minority. If we look at total effect, it's certainly net positive.
I can't help interpreting your opinion as, "it's ok to kick the poor people out, as long as the upper classes, government and businesses prosper." People aren't numbers to throw into a mean function. That "net positive" argument is what has been used to excuse globalization's "there have to be some losers" philosophy, which disproportionately affects those already in poverty.
A sense of community is one of the few things poor neighborhoods can offer their inhabitants. When those impoverished people are elbowed out and away from each other to make way for another coffee shop, it becomes hard to sympathize with the moneyed class's desire for late-night gourmet poke.
Edit: Taking a look at TulliusCicero's WaPo link is making me reconsider my position.
"...the California Legislative Analyst’s Office recently released some positive data backing up this point: Particularly in the Bay Area since 2000, the researchers found, low-income neighborhoods with a lot of new construction have witnessed about half the displacement of similar neighborhoods that haven’t added much new housing."
> "what everyone hates about urban change and gentrification..."
I don't mean to be inflammatory, but I've never understood exactly what "everybody" sees as the desired state.
When white people move out of urban centers, it is "white flight"... a negative phenomenon. When white people move into urban centers, it is "gentrification"... also a negative phenomenon.
Are white people just considered inherently evil, and their existence a negative phenomenon? Short of total income redistribution, and mandatory relocation (as ethnic groups tend to coalesce even without gaps in income)... what exactly is the inequality and diversity solution that "everyone" wants?
> If anything I think it's the sort of process that benefits majority of population while extracting a cost on a minority. If we look at total effect, it's certainly net positive.
Absolutely. Otherwise we'd all be still living in wooden shacks tilling the fields. Change inevitably effects some people negatively, but without it things can't, on average, get better.
> "what everyone hates about urban change and gentrification – first come the creatives and their coffee shops, then the young professionals, then the luxury high-rises and corporate chains that push out original residents"
> I personally have no problem with it. And if we're talking about crappy and dangerous neighborhoods that are becoming upscale - I love it.
"everyone" in this context meaning "everyone who holds the views of the author"
Here in PGH, "everyone" would mean student activists who are busy decrying the tearing down of several high rise projects in a part of town that had been on a downward slope since the late 70's. Neighborhoods that only a few years ago "closed at dark" (literally) due to pervasive criminality are now economic hubs.
At least in this case, most people seem to be quite happy with economic development in what used to be no-go areas. Nonetheless, there's a vocal minority of affluent art students who are busy putting up graffiti about "preserving culture". You can't ever make everyone happy, but the author's "everyone" isn't in fact everyone.
Why is the author so quick to assume that everyone sees gentrification as something bad? There's been vocal opposition to it, but it doesn't mean that everybody feels that way.
When they don't have it people want it, and when they get it, they don't want it. Run down cities, rust belt cities wish for gentrification, people who live in places going down hill wish for it too, it brings safer neighborhoods, better stores, more jobs, on the other hand people decry rising rents and "changing the character" of the neighborhood, as if unemployment and the transients didn't also"change the character" of the neighborhood.
Basically people want it both ways. Have their cakes and eat them too.
It's the Guardian. That's their thing. That paper employs an admitted KGB spy (after his spying was revealed.) Same paper that supported Stalin. The Guardian has a deep rooted history in the 'class' struggle. Not a condemnation, just context. It's the American Left equivalent of MSNBC or analogous to the right wing Washington Times.
It's a bit tongue in cheek. Also property / rent prices are a major problem in London. All sorts of people are trying to move here and there's an approximately fixed supply.
I love myself some fine light roasted filter coffee as much as the next person. My biggest concern with these places, however is IT security. Anyone who hasn't played around with their laptops once receiving the wifi password, running their chosen network analysis tools/penetration suite and messing with people whose screen you might even see from two tables away, hands up in the air.
I will not be first in line, mind you. Thus, I advise people to use their own connection or ssh to their home network when using even protected wifi in coffee shops. The burglar already has the keys to the house, and you are a willing guest to the table. Who will take responsibility for your safety if not you?
>Anyone who hasn't played around with their laptops once receiving the wifi password, running their chosen network analysis tools/penetration suite and messing with people
I don't "mess with people" going about their business for fun.
>Anyone who hasn't played around with their laptops once receiving the wifi password, running their chosen network analysis tools/penetration suite and messing with people whose screen you might even see from two tables away, hands up in the air.
That's not ethical, and depending on exactly what you're doing, possibly not legal either. There's very clearly an implicit assumption that coffee shop wifi is for your own personal (and relatively light use). If you want to do anything else, you should get the permission of the owners.
Any Macbook has a default ignore all inbound traffic setting on their firewall - provided reasonable use of SSL services (Gmail, Google Apps, Dropbox, etc) and good web hygiene you would be totally safe surfing random insecure public wifi all day long.
Because they are not essential (like a bodega or gas station would be), and most are tied to a more laid-back, more bohemian lifestyle -- which means enough non-poor people are coming in the neighborhood to make them viable.
Of course talking about "coffee shops" proper -- the poor just make do with Dunkin Doughnuts and the like...
> the poor just make do with Dunkin Doughnuts and the like
Oh brother, HN's insulation from the real world is showing... If you can afford $2 for a cup of Dunkin Donuts coffee on a regular basis, you probably are't poor. Most of them "make do" with a cup of Folgers/Maxwell House/etc brewed at home in a Mr. Coffee.
What's a "bodega"? I'm surprised to see this word in English, also considered as a basic service (not a wine cellar then?). In Spanish it's one of the two evolutions of Greek "apotheke", the other one being "botica" (farmacy).
Interesting; tomorrow I'm going to ask five people this exact question just to see what happens.
EDIT: Obviously if you've read the article, it states this is like asking "do you know what time it is?" - that is it's an known excuse to start a conversation. Personally, I don't believe this, hence my experiment.
The coffee shops also served tea, and both were exotic novelties when the shops first opened. But tea became affordable as an everday drink for the common man much earlier because the British empire had access to so much of it.
For all our famed fondness for tea, we make the top 50 for per capita coffee consumption ahead of some of the countries we import it from too.
Well the insurance industry was somewhat born on the back of coffee with the formation of reinsurance for ships by a group of people who used to meet in a coffee shop that went on to form Llyods of London, and the World of reinsurance and insurance grew from there.
One indeed wonders, how much business is done in a coffee shop's today in relation to the past compared to todays times.
[+] [-] dkopi|10 years ago|reply
If I had to pick one city for having the best coffee shops, it would probably be Tel Aviv. The coffee is great, all coffee shops are laptop friendly (and gladly provide you with the wifi password), and people are very open to social interaction with strangers. At any given moment you'll find a designer working on a logo, an architecture student reading a post blasting gentrification, entrepreneurs discussing their new startup, or freelancers looking for a break from working at home. Tel Aviv coffee shops are also very dog friendly, and that's always a great conversation starter.
I often find that "could you watch my laptop while i go to the bathroom?" followed by "hey, what are you working on?" is usually the best way to get to know new people.
I even find that I'm a lot more productive when I work at a coffee shop instead of an office. A coffee shop provides with just enough distraction and people watching when you need to take a break, but not enough that you completely lose concentration and focus.
[+] [-] samtp|10 years ago|reply
HCMC has more cafes than any other city in the world, basically 2-3 cafes per block. While most cafes are quite simple, there are hundreds that are just as hip and modern (if not more so) as anything that you'd find in the western world. You also get unique types of cafes such as garden cafes with huge trees and waterfalls and pet cafes with fuzzy cats/exotic birds lounging about. Many open 24 hours as well.
Best part about it is from ordering a single coffee (for about $1), you get free tea refills all day. No one ever pressures you to leave and everywhere has very good quality, free wifi.
This link is pretty out of date (and mostly focuses on city center) [0] but shows some of the places available. You can also use Google translate on Vietnam's version of Yelp and click on some of the cafe collections to get a more thorough idea. [1]
[0] http://www.nomadicnotes.com/travel-blog/ho-chi-minh-city-caf... [1] http://www.foody.vn/ho-chi-minh/bo-suu-tap
[+] [-] matwood|10 years ago|reply
This right here is why I get so much done in coffee shops. It's almost like white noise that keeps you focused without day dreaming.
When I lived in Denver I was 100% remote worker and would work every afternoon in one of three coffee shops. One shop was a chain, but they were very friendly and eventually I knew all the people who worked there. The other 2 were local.
One of them was owned and run by this guy who literally loved coffee. He would talk about new beans he got that 'spoke' to him. His coffee is still some of the best I ever had. He also just let me run a tab and I would pay him every month.
The final place was more of a cafe. It was large, and would sometimes have live music starting in the late afternoon. It also had a lot of people who worked from there that I got to know. I asked the owner once if hanging out there all day bothered her and she said if people bought something once every hour or two she was coming out ahead. So I made sure to do that anytime I was there.
I miss working in random places, since they really led me to focus for some reason.
[+] [-] cylinder|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cardine|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] abledon|10 years ago|reply
Do you find it easy to block out the peripheral perception that 3-4 people are just staring at you from across the room?
[+] [-] ben_jones|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tim333|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] simonebrunozzi|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Xcelerate|10 years ago|reply
This is funny, because it perfectly describes the difference in attitude between me and my father. He gets annoyed when he walks into a coffee shop and sees everyone on their phones and laptops. On the other hand, I think the atmosphere is quite cozy, and love taking my own stuff to work on to that kind of cheerful environment. I almost never start a conversation, but I do enjoy being around other people.
[+] [-] mysterypie|10 years ago|reply
I can remember a time (1980's and earlier) when the modern version of the coffee shop didn't exist.
The nearest equivalent was a bar: Dimly lit, filled with smoke, loud annoying music, aggressive people, and a waiter coming around every 10 minutes to ask/demand if you want another drink. If you dared bring in some papers or a book to read, you'd get dirty looks, rude comments, or worse.
Thank god for the modern coffee shop and the shift in attitude.
[+] [-] dkopi|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nxzero|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RyanMcGreal|10 years ago|reply
https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*U36hBj8i-C7JJJxS4M...
[+] [-] justifier|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] omonra|10 years ago|reply
I personally have no problem with it. And if we're talking about crappy and dangerous neighborhoods that are becoming upscale - I love it.
If anything I think it's the sort of process that benefits majority of population while extracting a cost on a minority. If we look at total effect, it's certainly net positive.
[+] [-] nefitty|10 years ago|reply
A sense of community is one of the few things poor neighborhoods can offer their inhabitants. When those impoverished people are elbowed out and away from each other to make way for another coffee shop, it becomes hard to sympathize with the moneyed class's desire for late-night gourmet poke.
Edit: Taking a look at TulliusCicero's WaPo link is making me reconsider my position.
[+] [-] TulliusCicero|10 years ago|reply
"...the California Legislative Analyst’s Office recently released some positive data backing up this point: Particularly in the Bay Area since 2000, the researchers found, low-income neighborhoods with a lot of new construction have witnessed about half the displacement of similar neighborhoods that haven’t added much new housing."
[+] [-] StevePerkins|10 years ago|reply
I don't mean to be inflammatory, but I've never understood exactly what "everybody" sees as the desired state.
When white people move out of urban centers, it is "white flight"... a negative phenomenon. When white people move into urban centers, it is "gentrification"... also a negative phenomenon.
Are white people just considered inherently evil, and their existence a negative phenomenon? Short of total income redistribution, and mandatory relocation (as ethnic groups tend to coalesce even without gaps in income)... what exactly is the inequality and diversity solution that "everyone" wants?
[+] [-] retube|10 years ago|reply
Absolutely. Otherwise we'd all be still living in wooden shacks tilling the fields. Change inevitably effects some people negatively, but without it things can't, on average, get better.
[+] [-] doktrin|10 years ago|reply
> I personally have no problem with it. And if we're talking about crappy and dangerous neighborhoods that are becoming upscale - I love it.
"everyone" in this context meaning "everyone who holds the views of the author"
Here in PGH, "everyone" would mean student activists who are busy decrying the tearing down of several high rise projects in a part of town that had been on a downward slope since the late 70's. Neighborhoods that only a few years ago "closed at dark" (literally) due to pervasive criminality are now economic hubs.
At least in this case, most people seem to be quite happy with economic development in what used to be no-go areas. Nonetheless, there's a vocal minority of affluent art students who are busy putting up graffiti about "preserving culture". You can't ever make everyone happy, but the author's "everyone" isn't in fact everyone.
[+] [-] johnmarinelli|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] golergka|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mc32|10 years ago|reply
Basically people want it both ways. Have their cakes and eat them too.
[+] [-] nxzero|10 years ago|reply
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/gentrifi...
[+] [-] briandear|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lamby|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] venomsnake|10 years ago|reply
It plays very nicely into current economic, racial and so on divides in the cultural war.
[+] [-] tim333|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oska|10 years ago|reply
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Look_at_Life_%28film_series%29
[+] [-] Zelmor|10 years ago|reply
I will not be first in line, mind you. Thus, I advise people to use their own connection or ssh to their home network when using even protected wifi in coffee shops. The burglar already has the keys to the house, and you are a willing guest to the table. Who will take responsibility for your safety if not you?
[+] [-] forgetsusername|10 years ago|reply
I don't "mess with people" going about their business for fun.
[+] [-] foldr|10 years ago|reply
That's not ethical, and depending on exactly what you're doing, possibly not legal either. There's very clearly an implicit assumption that coffee shop wifi is for your own personal (and relatively light use). If you want to do anything else, you should get the permission of the owners.
[+] [-] illumin8|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coldtea|10 years ago|reply
Of course talking about "coffee shops" proper -- the poor just make do with Dunkin Doughnuts and the like...
[+] [-] Merad|10 years ago|reply
Oh brother, HN's insulation from the real world is showing... If you can afford $2 for a cup of Dunkin Donuts coffee on a regular basis, you probably are't poor. Most of them "make do" with a cup of Folgers/Maxwell House/etc brewed at home in a Mr. Coffee.
[+] [-] narag|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nxzero|10 years ago|reply
Interesting; tomorrow I'm going to ask five people this exact question just to see what happens.
EDIT: Obviously if you've read the article, it states this is like asking "do you know what time it is?" - that is it's an known excuse to start a conversation. Personally, I don't believe this, hence my experiment.
[+] [-] WalterBright|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] groundCode|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] test1235|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notahacker|10 years ago|reply
For all our famed fondness for tea, we make the top 50 for per capita coffee consumption ahead of some of the countries we import it from too.
[+] [-] PascLeRasc|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zenst|10 years ago|reply
One indeed wonders, how much business is done in a coffee shop's today in relation to the past compared to todays times.
[+] [-] jkot|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lamby|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] k-mcgrady|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ewanvalentine|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jackfoxy|10 years ago|reply