There was an interesting documentary on the BBC a year or so ago following the CrossRail project. One segment in particular was fascinating - a manoeuvre they called "threading the eye of the needle". The Tunnel Boring Machine (TBM) had to go through an gap between an existing underground station at the bottom, and a tunnel for the down escalator at the top ... tolerances were razor thin, much less than 1m either end.
> "Because the TBMs are so large and unwieldy, two of them—named Phyllis and Ada—were left buried in the ground near the new Farringdon tunnels."
There's a movie plot in that, but I'm not sure if it's a "mad scientist destroys London with TBM" plot, or a "heroic genius saves London from zombies with TBM" plot, or a "Bruce Willis foils terrorists in London with TBM" plot.
I guarantee those machines get referenced in a movie / book in the next decade :-)
The latest William Gibson book features a sculpture made of diggers recovered from the basements of the super rich erected in a possible future London. Apparently the cost of retrieving them is a major driver in the small digger market!
I'm surprised no one mentioned the already existing (40 years old!) same project in Paris (called RER). It's full scaled train (even double decker) running underground in Paris and overground outside. The oldest line (A) is the most used line in the world expect Japan (>1 million person/worked day). Auber station was (is?) the biggest underground station in the world and Chatelet-Les Halles is the most used underground station in the world.
No one mentioned it because it is not the same, it is only comparable. RER is, like you said, of the same scale, but 40 years old and proven. You should be happy to bring things you like into the conversation, but not surprised that other people don't like the things you like.
I have to say I'm a bit weirded out by there being a conductor (according to the demo videos) on a brand new subway project. Do the platform door prefigure automation in the future?
Good thing on the large diameter though, IME many of the tube's older sub-surface lines are unfortunately (and uncomfortably for modern average heights) small.
A commenter further down said that these trains are supposed to also run on the normal train lines. This probably means that they have to comply with the regular train regulation, which are quite different from the subway regulations and make automatic driving a lot more difficult.
For something like a train I would think you'd want one or more humans babysitting it all the time no matter how automated it is. Thousands of people would ride it every day, all the time, even if it is 100% automated what would be the point in cutting that particular corner? Saving labor costs on conductors are probably not worth it for insurance reasons alone, even if the conductor sits around twiddling his thumbs all day long.
As i understand it, there's a rule that requires a member of staff on any train that's properly underground. Ostensibly for safety in emergencies, but possibly because the unions fancied the jobs.
On current tube and big railway trains, that member of staff is the driver. On the DLR, it's the train captain. On an automated Crossrail train, it could be a guard (it's buses that have conductors!).
For more big digs, see also New York City Water Tunnel No. 3, a 60-mile long tunnel that has been under continuous construction since 1970 and which will allow the city's two existing water supply tunnels to be closed for repairs for the first time in a century.
A friend of mine is the Innovation Project Manager for Crossrail (strictly speaking it won't be called the Elizabeth line until it opens). There's a good interview with him which I think would be of interest to HN readers, especially the approaches TFL has been taking to encourage innovation, and the new technologies they've been using for the project: http://digitalconstructionnews.com/2016/02/10/dcn-talks-to-w...
So does the new name ("Elizabeth line") imply that this is an expansion of the Underground - rather than a separate system? I know it sound like just semantics, but the DLR system for example is definitely quite distinct from the Underground, and I would like to know whether Crossrail will be too.
It's "normal" railway. Big trains, which continue onto the national railway network after leaving the tunnel.
Visitors to London especially don't need to care about this, and the name tells then to treat it like the other underground lines: there will be trains every two minutes, and a special ticket isn't required.
Crossrail seems to be original name for the Elizabeth Line, in case anyone else was confused by this comment. I'm guessing it will be part of the system, by sharing stations with the existing lines, but the platforms will be at different levels.
As far as I know, Crossrail is the name of the project whilst the Elizabeth line is the name of the actual line. The Elizabeth line seems to be not quite an extension of the underground.
It has interrunning with GEML and GWML, so a separate system. As TfL basically owns most of it, it is co-branded the same way Overground and DLR are too.
There are tons of videos available about Crossrail. It's a full sized (for the UK) electrified railway, with trains running above ground out to London's eastern and western suburbs.
> Before I was allowed down into the building site, I had to be shown what to do in case of emergency. Basically, "run away from the smoke if you can."
I met a guy at an after work thing a few years back, somewhere in the city, who said he worked with contingency planning for TfL. I asked him, what's the plan if there's a fire in the tube, one of the older lines where you're deep, deep underground, and there's heavy smoke development? His answer wasn't very re-assuring: "we pray."
Since that day I very rarely, if ever, take the tube anywhere. If I do I make sure it's on off hours when there aren't as many people on board or in the stations. Irrational fear, for sure, but coupled with the extreme amounts of people you may find, with people literally jammed up against the walls, I figure I'd rather spend a few more bucks on a cab, or just spend more time walking.
(Also the signs in various stations, King's Cross for instance, commemorating the victims of accidents and/or attacks aren't really re-assuring.)
That seems especially irrational if your alternative is road transport. People die every day from that. No passenger has died since 1987 on the Underground, except with the terrorist attacks. Even those didn't cause fires.
Crossrail is the 4th most costly 'megaproject' involving transport both under construction and 4th including all completed projects. There isn't any way to look at it where it isn't one of the world's largest construction projects unless you start looking at space stations and if cities were 'megaprojects'
[+] [-] philjohn|9 years ago|reply
Image that shows what they did here: http://s3files.core77.com/blog/images/2015/01/Crossrail_Plan...
[+] [-] jsingleton|9 years ago|reply
Not on iPlayer any more but you can buy it on DVD if your don't think tunnelling is boring. :)
http://www.londonreconnections.com is also a detailed resource.
[+] [-] Intermernet|9 years ago|reply
There's a movie plot in that, but I'm not sure if it's a "mad scientist destroys London with TBM" plot, or a "heroic genius saves London from zombies with TBM" plot, or a "Bruce Willis foils terrorists in London with TBM" plot.
I guarantee those machines get referenced in a movie / book in the next decade :-)
[+] [-] sgt101|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chiph|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MaysonL|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] twic|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maattdd|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nattofriends|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] masklinn|9 years ago|reply
Good thing on the large diameter though, IME many of the tube's older sub-surface lines are unfortunately (and uncomfortably for modern average heights) small.
[+] [-] adrianN|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mwfunk|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] twic|9 years ago|reply
On current tube and big railway trains, that member of staff is the driver. On the DLR, it's the train captain. On an automated Crossrail train, it could be a guard (it's buses that have conductors!).
[+] [-] blowski|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kibwen|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Symbiote|9 years ago|reply
It's to be 25km / 16mi long, and mostly run under the river, and should take 9 years in total to build.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Tideway_Scheme
[+] [-] maxerickson|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Twirrim|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] billforsternz|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Symbiote|9 years ago|reply
Visitors to London especially don't need to care about this, and the name tells then to treat it like the other underground lines: there will be trains every two minutes, and a special ticket isn't required.
Also, Crossrail 2 is being planned.
[+] [-] kristianp|9 years ago|reply
http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-to-become...
[+] [-] kieranhunt|9 years ago|reply
This video clears it up somewhat [1].
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaBBg6Cyv9Q
[+] [-] nattofriends|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Animats|9 years ago|reply
Main site: [1]
[1] http://www.crossrail.co.uk/
[+] [-] spdegabrielle|9 years ago|reply
Your city may be different but wheelchair accessible stations are a rarity in London.
[+] [-] peterburkimsher|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] calebsurfs|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomc1985|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mstade|9 years ago|reply
I met a guy at an after work thing a few years back, somewhere in the city, who said he worked with contingency planning for TfL. I asked him, what's the plan if there's a fire in the tube, one of the older lines where you're deep, deep underground, and there's heavy smoke development? His answer wasn't very re-assuring: "we pray."
Since that day I very rarely, if ever, take the tube anywhere. If I do I make sure it's on off hours when there aren't as many people on board or in the stations. Irrational fear, for sure, but coupled with the extreme amounts of people you may find, with people literally jammed up against the walls, I figure I'd rather spend a few more bucks on a cab, or just spend more time walking.
(Also the signs in various stations, King's Cross for instance, commemorating the victims of accidents and/or attacks aren't really re-assuring.)
[+] [-] peteretep|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Symbiote|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] panste|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neximo4|9 years ago|reply
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transport_megaprojects
[+] [-] Symbiote|9 years ago|reply