Very excited to see this launch! The Internet Archive has been working with browsers to check (opt-in) the Wayback Machine whenever endusers click on a dead link. We're in the queue for the next round of Test Pilot tests!
FWIW, we're also working to make these things remove themselves cleanly - and if you uninstall the initial Test Pilot add-on, it pulls out all the experimental add-ons along with it and disables any metrics we might have enabled along with it. Bug reports very welcome if this doesn't work as expected
Honestly all I want from Firefox is better stability and performance - I don't care about almost anything else barring security. Firefox has become so unstable and slow (on OSX at least) that many people I know - myself included have switched to chromium. We don't want to use it but we have to because of all the crashes and massive slowdowns during long running sessions or when many tabs are open. This goes for stable, dev edition and nightly. It really saddens me and I'm sure others because of the great work that Mozilla does especially with regards to transparency, privacy and security.
Edit: I'm also in two minds about the plugin systems between the two browsers. The idea of all JavaScript plugins scares me to death, there really are no good download managers for chromium / chrome, on the other hand Firefox plugins I rely on like Evernote web clipper keep breaking and don't even work on dev/nightly when enforcing the new plugin system.
Test Pilot isn't happening at the cost of stability and performance improvements. It's a complementary program that helps us ship better features through data-driven iteration.
I hear your concerns, though. The platform and desktop teams are doing tons of great work on improving stability and performance--you might want to give Firefox another try sometime. If you do, maybe try out some Test Pilot experiments while you're at it, and let us know what you think.
Big fan of mozilla and firefox. I've been defending it for years, but now I'm having a hard time. It's slower in almost any case than the competition, from initial rendering to switching tabs. Some stuff hang the page completly. Watching too many videos or scrolling too much twitter slow down the browser to a crawl even after closing all tabs and require a restart.
I'm not using firefox out of sheer ideology and support for the FOSS community, but it's not the superior product I used to sell to everybody.
I don't even know how it's possible that the performance degrades over time as it does, but it has become bad, at least on Linux.
Opening the dev tools has such a huge performance impact these days (on an i7 with 16GB RAM and an SSD...) that I mostly don't bother to develop with Firefox anymore.
Let alone missing features like user agent spoofing, which still requires an addon, or the bug that messes up file associations with every update.
I hope they do less UI changes, get their shit together and improve the core.
Is the "Tab Center" feature a prototype for an official version of tree-style tabs, perhaps? I've seen that Servo/browser.html was experimenting with tabs-on-the-side, I'd love to see this graduate to more than just an experiment.
We don't know exactly what's going to happen with Tab Center--or any of these experiments--in the long run. Our goal here is to get feedback from our users to drive successive UX and engineering iterations.
Once experiments have incubated in Test Pilot for awhile, we will have a number of options depending on each experiment's overall success. We may push them over to AMO, or integrate them directly into the browser. If an experiment is really unsuccessful, we may simply cut our losses and walk away. Test Pilot should help us make these decisions more quickly and effectively.
We'll be blogging more about the overall Test Pilot pipeline in the weeks to come. Stay tuned!
The simple story is that the current tabbing model in was designed to save you from needing half a dozen browser window open. It just doesn't scale well past a dozen tabs or so, and we know that some users have dozens or even hundreds open at the same time. Tab Center is taking a fresh look at the problem with that in mind.
The side-tabs don't have any hierarchy, but already you can fit many more tabs and have them visible at once than the tabs-on-top.
I think the main thing that keeps tree tabs from happening is that it's an advanced concept for the everyday internet surfer, which is what Firefox has been trying to appeal to more and more lately.
They work for now. But these and future experiments are going to start talking more to the main Test Pilot site, and will possibly break / disable themselves without that connection. Going out-of-band to install these will likely lead to sadness eventually.
Also, I think you're pointing to older demo versions of some of those add-on and not the current Test Pilot releases. We're trying to work more in the open on this stuff, so you'll likely find things like this here and there.
Hey, that's actually the wrong link for the search add-on.
What you've downloaded is a deprecated earlier prototype that may not work at all--you're looking at the wrong github repo. (I just took down the built add-on, so other people don't make the same mistake.)
Test Pilot is about reconnecting desktop Firefox with its community; it's about more than just whatever add-ons are available today. We have feedback forms now, we'll have Discourse user forums integrated soon, and I hope we can eventually start building ideas that come from the community, with the help of the community. You should give it a try :-)
While this isn't integrated into the Test Pilot site UX for the time being, we have Discourse forums set up for all of the experiments in Test Pilot.* If you'd like to register questions or feedback ton Discourse, team members and community moderators will be monitoring the forum.
Why do we encourage users to override security protections? I click "get started now", and am presented with a warning message reminiscent of an ssl cert error. In general when users see the "this site is trying to install software" warning message I hope they become suspicious and do something else (certainly not override the warning dialog). I am not entirely sure why that should not be the case now. I am inclined to think that mozilla is an organization with "good" technology and principles. But if that is the case why cant they get the left hand to talk to the right hand and install test pilot in a manner that does not teach users that its okay to override the security warning dialogs?
Very nice! So far I'm liking this quite a bit, especially Tab Center.
On that note, one usability suggestion: having the tab sidebar run all the way to the top of the window means that the years (decades?) of muscle memory I've built up telling me to mouse to the top left of the window to hit the Back button now results in me hitting the New Tab button. It'd be better if the awesomebar area spanned the complete width of the window, and the tab center column started at the same height as the content area.
That's because a) we want to make it easier for folks to try these features out without switching to another release channel, and b) we want to get feedback on how they work in the browser that folks normally use day-to-day
I have to say I love the concept, and I'm very happy with my brand new tabs on the side.
That said I did find a bug and I have some performance problems to report, but it's not clear to me where I can report a bug for a particular experiment.
It looks like the feedback button wants me to fill out a whole satisfaction survey, and "File in issue" takes me to the test pilot github, which seems to be about the Test Pilot program in general.
This is a step in the right direction. No more should crap like Pocket land in FF without warning. Making new features, which might be controversial, go through a "preview" stage like this, should help restore a lot of faith in the development process, and show that Mozilla is again focusing on the browser rather than random me-too projects following the latest web-fad.
Yeah, I can't speak for everyone, but I think Test Pilot is in part a reaction to the Pocket thing. Even among Mozilla employees, there were folks who thought it was a great addition and there were folks who thought it was a huge mistake.
Either way, it was a surprise, and not entirely pleasant. Test Pilot will hopefully be a way to reduce surprises of this nature.
Firefox was once working on improving the Bookmarks Manager. I recall lengthy articles detailing the extensive study and research (sorry, do not have the link handy. No pun intended). Whatever happened to that project?
All the more power to introducing improvements to the Browser, but above does not give me confidence in signing up.
I was almost going to pass this up based on the HN discussion and the initial CTA[1] on the page. I'm still not sure this answers any of the many frustrations, and hopes, I have for browser development,[2][3] but it's of possible interest.
For the love of all that's holy: Put a compelling argument for a CTA on the page BEFORE the CTA.
And ... put a compelling argument there regardless. This lacks both.
The features mentioned, especially tabs management, strike me as useful. Tabs are a mistake. That's not my opinion, that's Adam Stiles' view -- and he invented them. Content management is a huge problem.
Web design isn't the solution, it's the problem. My standing recommendation now is that Pocket add a Web Intent to its Android app. If I could use it rather than Firefox or Chrome for browsing, I'd be vastly happier.
Streams, search, bookmarks, content, organisation, reputation (of authors, sites, publishers), fact-checking, influence-registries (Nature just had an item on this IIRC) are all other areas of issue.
Paying content providers is a concern. I'm notafan of micropayments, but building the system into the browser is one option. Broadband or content taxes with usage monitoring similar to music's mechanicals is another. Browsers could play a role in both.
I'm also not a fan of having to register for stuff. But might regardless.
[+] [-] greglindahl|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amjd|10 years ago|reply
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/resurrect-pag...
[+] [-] morinted|10 years ago|reply
It also doesn't hold Mozilla accountable to get these new features into Firefox's core without proving that they are viable and popular.
I'm impressed.
[+] [-] lmorchard|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrmondo|10 years ago|reply
Edit: I'm also in two minds about the plugin systems between the two browsers. The idea of all JavaScript plugins scares me to death, there really are no good download managers for chromium / chrome, on the other hand Firefox plugins I rely on like Evernote web clipper keep breaking and don't even work on dev/nightly when enforcing the new plugin system.
[+] [-] 6a68|10 years ago|reply
I hear your concerns, though. The platform and desktop teams are doing tons of great work on improving stability and performance--you might want to give Firefox another try sometime. If you do, maybe try out some Test Pilot experiments while you're at it, and let us know what you think.
[+] [-] sametmax|10 years ago|reply
I'm not using firefox out of sheer ideology and support for the FOSS community, but it's not the superior product I used to sell to everybody.
[+] [-] yAnonymous|10 years ago|reply
Opening the dev tools has such a huge performance impact these days (on an i7 with 16GB RAM and an SSD...) that I mostly don't bother to develop with Firefox anymore.
Let alone missing features like user agent spoofing, which still requires an addon, or the bug that messes up file associations with every update.
I hope they do less UI changes, get their shit together and improve the core.
[+] [-] kibwen|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jgruen|10 years ago|reply
Once experiments have incubated in Test Pilot for awhile, we will have a number of options depending on each experiment's overall success. We may push them over to AMO, or integrate them directly into the browser. If an experiment is really unsuccessful, we may simply cut our losses and walk away. Test Pilot should help us make these decisions more quickly and effectively.
We'll be blogging more about the overall Test Pilot pipeline in the weeks to come. Stay tuned!
[+] [-] chuckharmston|10 years ago|reply
The simple story is that the current tabbing model in was designed to save you from needing half a dozen browser window open. It just doesn't scale well past a dozen tabs or so, and we know that some users have dozens or even hundreds open at the same time. Tab Center is taking a fresh look at the problem with that in mind.
[+] [-] morinted|10 years ago|reply
I think the main thing that keeps tree tabs from happening is that it's an advanced concept for the everyday internet surfer, which is what Firefox has been trying to appeal to more and more lately.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] JupiterMoon|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] talmand|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lol768|10 years ago|reply
Tab Center appears to be available from http://people.mozilla.org/~bwinton/TabCenter/
Universal search: (edit: link here was incorrect)
Activity streams: https://moz-activity-streams.s3.amazonaws.com/dist/latest.ht...
[+] [-] lmorchard|10 years ago|reply
Also, I think you're pointing to older demo versions of some of those add-on and not the current Test Pilot releases. We're trying to work more in the open on this stuff, so you'll likely find things like this here and there.
[+] [-] 6a68|10 years ago|reply
What you've downloaded is a deprecated earlier prototype that may not work at all--you're looking at the wrong github repo. (I just took down the built add-on, so other people don't make the same mistake.)
Test Pilot is about reconnecting desktop Firefox with its community; it's about more than just whatever add-ons are available today. We have feedback forms now, we'll have Discourse user forums integrated soon, and I hope we can eventually start building ideas that come from the community, with the help of the community. You should give it a try :-)
[+] [-] morinted|10 years ago|reply
- Sync your experimental add-ons across browser instances
- Provide useful metrics for the TestPilot add-on
- Cleanly remove all add-ons and metrics when you uninstall it
[+] [-] jgruen|10 years ago|reply
https://discourse.mozilla-community.org/c/test-pilot
*Yes, you'll need to sign in with Persona ;)
[+] [-] dfc|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 6a68|10 years ago|reply
Firefox always shows a warning doorhanger if an add-on is installed from a website other than addons.mozilla.org.
What you're seeing is a Mozilla web property following the same rules as every other website. Nothing to worry about.
[+] [-] fiftyacorn|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cyberferret|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lmorchard|10 years ago|reply
(oh wait, no, we had to cancel that one for licensing reasons)
[+] [-] dingaling|10 years ago|reply
"You have google analytics blocked. We understand. Take a look at our privacy policy to see how we handle your data."
[+] [-] 6a68|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Blaaguuu|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smacktoward|10 years ago|reply
On that note, one usability suggestion: having the tab sidebar run all the way to the top of the window means that the years (decades?) of muscle memory I've built up telling me to mouse to the top left of the window to hit the Back button now results in me hitting the New Tab button. It'd be better if the awesomebar area spanned the complete width of the window, and the tab center column started at the same height as the content area.
[+] [-] chipperyman573|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lmorchard|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tux3|10 years ago|reply
That said I did find a bug and I have some performance problems to report, but it's not clear to me where I can report a bug for a particular experiment.
It looks like the feedback button wants me to fill out a whole satisfaction survey, and "File in issue" takes me to the test pilot github, which seems to be about the Test Pilot program in general.
Is there a better place to report bugs?
[+] [-] 6a68|10 years ago|reply
Our wiki has a list of bug trackers: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Test_Pilot#Found_a_bug.3F
You can also talk with us in #testpilot on Mozilla IRC.
[+] [-] dynofuz|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 6a68|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lmorchard|10 years ago|reply
That, or the atmosphere's just really thin up in the experimental altitudes.
[+] [-] jgruen|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] perilunar|10 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moller_M200G_Volantor
[+] [-] toyg|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lmorchard|10 years ago|reply
Either way, it was a surprise, and not entirely pleasant. Test Pilot will hopefully be a way to reduce surprises of this nature.
[+] [-] unknown|10 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] webwanderings|10 years ago|reply
All the more power to introducing improvements to the Browser, but above does not give me confidence in signing up.
[+] [-] brokentone|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cornedor|10 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tyoverby|10 years ago|reply
I'd like to help, but you need to make it easy :(
[+] [-] 6a68|10 years ago|reply
It's actually super easy, give it a try :-)
[+] [-] dredmorbius|10 years ago|reply
For the love of all that's holy: Put a compelling argument for a CTA on the page BEFORE the CTA.
And ... put a compelling argument there regardless. This lacks both.
The features mentioned, especially tabs management, strike me as useful. Tabs are a mistake. That's not my opinion, that's Adam Stiles' view -- and he invented them. Content management is a huge problem.
Web design isn't the solution, it's the problem. My standing recommendation now is that Pocket add a Web Intent to its Android app. If I could use it rather than Firefox or Chrome for browsing, I'd be vastly happier.
Streams, search, bookmarks, content, organisation, reputation (of authors, sites, publishers), fact-checking, influence-registries (Nature just had an item on this IIRC) are all other areas of issue.
Paying content providers is a concern. I'm notafan of micropayments, but building the system into the browser is one option. Broadband or content taxes with usage monitoring similar to music's mechanicals is another. Browsers could play a role in both.
I'm also not a fan of having to register for stuff. But might regardless.
________________________________
Notes:
1. Call to action.
2. Among my longer rants, with a future roadmap: https://www.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/256lxu/tabbed_...
3. Specific to Firefox: https://plus.google.com/104092656004159577193/posts/VX64KGmi...
[+] [-] owaislone|10 years ago|reply