A cave in Romania that was sealed for 5.5M years

[tomp]

Some interesting takeaways::

- The cave is called "Movile".

- 3 species of spider, a centipede, 4 species of isopod (the group that includes woodlice), a leech never seen anywhere else in the world, and an unusual-looking insect called a waterscorpion

- Movile's only snail [probably the only snail species] suggested that it has been down there for just over 2 million years.

- Many animals are born without eyes, which would be useless in the dark. Almost all are translucent as they have lost pigment in their skin.

- The cave seems to have no contact with the surface; Chernobyl accident had released lots of radioactive metals, which had found their way into the soils and lakes surrounding Movile Cave. However, a 1996 study found no traces of them inside the cave.

- The ecosystem seems to be supported by chemosynthesis; bacteria oxidise methane, sulphide and ammonia, generating energy and organic matter.

[Someone1234]

The sad irony is that by opening it and discovered it, we've ruined the entire ecosystem. But by not discovering it we never would have known about it, and it is an educational opportunity lost.

Really cannot win either way. Just have to hope there are other, undiscovered, caves like this around the globe.

[zeotroph]

The part about "The bacteria's ability to oxidise methane and carbon dioxide is of particular interest." -- which seems to mean "ability to oxidise carbon dioxide" -- can't be right. Maybe the meaning is methane to CO2?

How can you still extract energy from a O=C=O molecule without using something like flourine? On the other hand, how does the CO2 get back into the carbon cycle? Do the organisms use an endothermic process to get the carbon back?

And has the 10% oxygen content been there since the cave was opened? Or was this the first mass extinction? While the water does not reach the cave, is there a way for air to make it through? I would expect no oxygen otherwise.

[nefitty]

Here are two cool food cycle charts of Movile cave from other websites: https://pullinghabitsoutofrats.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/m...

http://apassionforscience.pbworks.com/f/1364093168/foodv.jpg

[mtarnovan]

Movila (plura: movile) means mound in romanian

[samirm]

>The cave is called "Movile" I don't know if I would call this an interesting takeaway lol, more like just a fact you need to know when talking about this.

[ucaetano]

"in pitch darkness and temperatures of 25 °C"

Is this supposed to be terrifying? Anyone who woke up at night and walked to the bathroom faced pitch darkness and temperatures of 25 °C!

[ygra]

The title is a bit misleading. The cave was discovered in 1986. It's just that this article is a bit more recent.

[qaq]

What's 30 years compared to 5.5M :)

[pvg]

That's because the title was made up by the poster and not the original.

[fma]

The OP probably saw this posted in the TIL subreddit. This article is 9 months old, posted on reddit 12 hours ago, posted on HN 7 hours ago.

[jgrahamc]

Fewer than 100 people have been allowed inside Movile, a number comparable to those who have been to the Moon.

BBC reporting is really kind of crappy. 12 people walked on the Moon; 22 people orbited the Moon.

[nkrisc]

12, 22, and the number of people who have been in the cave are all fewer than 100. Same order of magnitude.

[arbuge]

Technically 100 and 32 are comparable numbers.

[octagonal]

33 people: 0.00000045810% of the earth's population

100 people: 0.00000134736% of the earth's population

Seems fairly comparable to me.

[bonzini]

It was 29 in 2010. Sounds like it's much smaller than 100.

[webXL]

And it's just a tad bit more expensive to get to the moon than this cave, and by tad, I mean it's probably more expensive than any other activity a single human being has ever done, so I'm not sure why they use this comparison.

[raldi]

And two more went around the moon but never entered orbit.

[mh-cx]

Maybe I've missed it, but how exactly do they know it was cut off for 5.5M years?

[joemi]

Good question. I've read a bunch of articles about it (haven't delved into the research papers), and none of what I've read ever mentions that.

That said, I suspect it's based on the location and composition of the cave and it's surroundings.

[beefok]

I would like to know this too! I'm trying to think it must be some radioisotope dating, but I don't see what they would be comparing or sampling. It would also be interesting to do some DNA dating differential method between species.

[carlesfe]

I find this fascinating! Googling a bit, it seems there is a documentary on the Movile cave: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1qpffb_the-secret-underwor...

[txutxu]

> Strangely, the worse the air gets the more animals there

> are. It's not at all obvious why that should be, or how

> the animals survive at all.

Mmmm I think it's the opposite: On more animals using the same static air balloons, less Oxygen will be there.

[Normal_gaussian]

Almost like concentrations of humans

[dc2]

A walk-through of the cave:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tOghHmhQKI

It gets more interesting starting on the third video.

[amasad]

Goes to show how resilient life is. Which makes it all the more unlikely that life is all that rare.

[Evgeny]

Resilience is probably not that closely linked to the probability of arising. Maybe once it exists, it is resilient, but when it is absent, chances of it arising are still very low.

[startling]

This is like, textbook survivorship bias.

[dredmorbius]

Both HN and BBC titles are rather clickbaity. Pity for what turns out to be an interesting article on non-photosynthesis-based food webs, communities, and metabolism.

[_asummers]

I believe the protocol here is to not complain about the title without suggesting a better alternative for the mods.

[amorphid]

Are animals in a cave like this considered endangered species?

[samstave]

Well, they are now that we found them.

[Scarblac]

Probably not, because their situation has been stable for 5,5 million years. You wouldn't expect them to go extinct unless something changes (like a major collapse of the cave).

[ommunist]

This is fascinating. Life is everywhere. This is real "pitch black", just with smaller monsters.

[csours]

Perhaps the Andromeda Strain will be found in a cave, not in space...

[pavel_lishin]

You might like Peter Watts' Starfish.

[x2398dh1]

What I'm reading is that the cave is like a 5-million year old micro brewing process, and as with many microbrews there are some nightmarish scorpions and spiders and scary creatures associated with the cave's brand. If that allegory is correct, then by exploring that cave we have essentially opened the cork and stuck our finger in, haven't we?

[CodinM]

Holy shit my city is #1 on HackerNews.

[sengork]

Those creatures have evolved on their own tangent. Quite interesting to see how different they are compared to the creatures outside of the cave.

On another note an well hidden cave like that would be great for preserving man made historical artefacts.

[ensiferum]

... and then humans came along and filled it with coke bottles, plastic bags, old car tyres and other rubbish.

[censhin]

So in summary, life, ahh, finds a way.

[hinkley]

Cenozoic Park just doesn't have the same ring to it. Especially since all parks are technically Cenozoic Park.

[OJFord]

    > became roughly the 29th person to enter

Roughly?

[hinkley]

"We don't know for sure how many of his girlfriends Steve has snuck into the cave over the years, and frankly we're afraid to ask."