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42 comes to Silicon Valley: free, non profit coding university

59 points| jpkenobi | 10 years ago |youtube.com | reply

70 comments

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[+] g123g|10 years ago|reply
What is the reason for having the age restriction of 30? Does it not implicitly contribute to the existing ageism issue in tech industry. Why can't a professional working in another industry learn something new at the age of 35 or a mother who wants to come back to the workforce after her kids start going to school?
[+] marcobooth|10 years ago|reply
I'm currently in the school in Paris and so thought I could help clarify. The main programme doesn't accept people above 30 but they do run a separate one which is tailored to those people - for example, it's not a given that they'll have to be here 24/7
[+] gamblor956|10 years ago|reply
The age restriction is also possibly illegal in the US, as age is a protected class under federal law.
[+] nappybrainiac|10 years ago|reply
Indeed they should be able to!

I'm a student at Holberton School in SF and we use the same methodology - project based, peer-learning - and our student body is made up of people who range in age from 17 to over 50. I'm 43.

Coding is for everyone.

[+] kalden_|10 years ago|reply
Here is all what the director seems to have said about the age limit (that is the same in the French school):

"I noticed in the past that we should not encourage too much age difference because it's harder then to form groups that work." (http://www.clubic.com/pro/emploi-informatique.clubic.com/act...)

"42 indeed focuses first on the 18-30. We think about other people with care, but we already initially have much to do." (http://www.vousnousils.fr/2013/04/12/nicolas-sadirac-l%E2%80...)

[+] pierre|10 years ago|reply
If I recall correctly they have 50k+ applications a year in France. You have to do some filtering.
[+] dmh2000|10 years ago|reply
i expect it would be illegal in the US. no sure since its private.
[+] melvinmt|10 years ago|reply
I'm guessing most people over 30 can not commit to a 3-year full time study, but it's weird indeed that they're not even allowed in.
[+] gravypod|10 years ago|reply
Why did they move to such an expensive area? If their goal is to provide services and help everyone why not build your university in an area like Detroit?

No one who is really interested won't go because of the location and it makes rent really cheap.

Hell, you could also have the Detroit government chip in and give you a great deal on land. What is bad for an economy about bringing some of our nations smartest programmers to a single location?

I'd love this if I could afford to go to it.

[+] stillworks|10 years ago|reply
So...start a coding school in a place in the world where you are likely to find a very dense population of people who already know how to write code ?
[+] pierre|10 years ago|reply
If you can't afford to live there they have a free dorm. There is only 164 rooms, don't know how they will distribute them.
[+] nappybrainiac|10 years ago|reply
San Francisco is unmatched when it comes to accessing mentors who have been entrenched in technology.

I'm a student at Holberton School, which is project based (like Ecole 42) and community driven. For example, one of our mentors in the Deep Learning track is none other than Louis Monier who founded Alta Vista.

[+] schmoll|10 years ago|reply
I hear they're not in San Francisco, but in Fremont, CA, which is somewhere around the Bay, but not technically in the Silicon Valley (it's about an hour away of public transportation from the interesting places), which explains why it's probably more affordable over there.
[+] fbucher|10 years ago|reply
If you have no money and from far away you can apply and ask for the dorm. They are Free also. Only expense will be the food and what you do outside the School.
[+] venomsnake|10 years ago|reply
So I am to strive to become a "very valuable asset for any company" ... I guess dehumanization is bad only when it is done by noncorporation people.

Also - can we stop with teaching to code already. Assume instead of literacy and writing in schools we thought people how to flip pages on books with green covers. Or we were teaching people how to multiply only by 8.

Without the broader body of IT literacy, coding is not that useful skill. Except for future corporate drones working on waterfall.

We need to give people basic IT literacy - the critical mass of knowledge that allows them to obtain more and diverse knowledge on their own - so when faced with a problem to know how to formulate a question and where to look for solution.

[+] volent|10 years ago|reply
It is not only teaching development, it's teaching UNIX, 3d, Security and much more [0].

In fact, the most important thing it's teaching is to learn by yourself. Most people just don't know how to learn without a teacher and that's the best skill you can learn if you wish to work in the industry.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42_(school)#Academics

[+] danso|10 years ago|reply
Coding is a pathway to IT literacy. Complaining about teaching code is analogous to complaining about teaching how to write.
[+] codingdave|10 years ago|reply
The age restrictions are odd. 3 years to learn a skill seems too much. Having to apply, so it is becomes an elitist programs, seems wrong. And their web site describes having to prove your worth in a 4 week 24x7 code fest before getting final acceptance into the program, which sounds like they do not understand the concept of burnout.

There are so many ways to learn to code... the only part these guys seem to have right is "free"

[+] louisrochal|10 years ago|reply
If you like coding and learning, the 24x7 coding period is a blast
[+] melvinmt|10 years ago|reply
> There are no school fees: running costs for the 10 first years (estimated at 20 to 50 million euros) have been personally funded by Xavier Niel. 42 will train each year one thousand students...

There are so many billionaires and millionaires in Silicon Valley who could easily fund a school like this, it simply baffles me that none of them have a tuition-free school of their own.

[+] pierre|10 years ago|reply
So Xavier Niel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xavier_Niel French entrepreneur, do not own any US interest) is committing millions from his personal fortune to open a FREE school to teach programming and computer science in the US to student regardless of their academic background and commenters critics the initiative because the school have an age limit.

I really love 42, and I'm happy that they open a new school in US. Their curriculum is great and previous iteration have give us technical talents like the docker team.

[+] gbersac|10 years ago|reply
He invested in more than 1000 startups, some of them in the US.
[+] stacywebb|10 years ago|reply
From their site:

WELCOME TO 42,THE MOST DARING CODING UNIVERSITY. DISRUPTIVE EDUCATION. TUITION FREE. NON-PROFIT. OPEN TO ALL.

False Advertising.

"OPEN TO ALL" "42 is open to anyone who is between the ages of 18 and 30"

Perhaps someone there should attend a class on demographics.

I suspect in the land of 42, you don't exist if you are <18 or >30. Such special little snowflakes they are.

[+] teh_klev|10 years ago|reply
I'm 49, mostly agree with your sentiment, but shouty all caps and the tiresome "snowflake" thing totally ruins your point. Sigh.
[+] msane|10 years ago|reply
Why not call it 30? 42 is 12 years too old apparently.
[+] karn09|10 years ago|reply
Why the 18-30 age limit? Seems a bit... ageist?
[+] WaBlueKey|10 years ago|reply
I couldn't agree more with you. This seems like an old model of assuming that those under 30 can't work well with those over yet they are expected to enter a diverse workforce. I'm 37 and in my 4th month at a school similar to 42 in SF. I'm glad that Holberton School didn't have that age restriction or I'd still be looking for another option.
[+] iFelix|10 years ago|reply
I'm surprised with all the negative comments focusing on the age limit. Xavier Niel committed millions to launch the school in Paris and it was an immense success which already benefits to the whole ecosystem. What is not said in the video is the type of candidates they are looking for. In France, as education is free, traditional "excellent" high school student don't apply to 42 and prefer to secure a place in the notorious engineering schools. 42 is rather focused on giving a second chance to bright people that didn't fit into the traditional system. The test to get qualified for the 4weeks session is only about fit/culture questions: no maths, no logic, no programming. No skills required, everyone has the same chance. Although the target in the US might be different as tuition fees are a real problem there. Curious to see what type of students will go there.
[+] wott|10 years ago|reply
> Xavier Niel committed millions to launch the school in Paris and it was an immense success which already benefits to the whole ecosystem

Liar. Sorry, but there is no other word and I am totally fed up with the bullshit propaganda people of 42 spread everywhere every-time. And now the lies go international.

We are in Spring of 2016. The school started in Autumn of 2013, which means that nobody has even completed the program (even the shortest one) at the expected pace. So we have a handful of students out from the short curriculum, not even a single full class, and zero from the long curriculum. Reaching any kind of conclusion is absolutely, factually impossible. Thus talking about "immense success" and "benefits to the whole ecosystem" is an "immense" steaming pile of horseshit.

For American readers: don't take anything you read about 42 at face value if it seems to originate from someone from 42. We have been enduring their bullshit for a while (a long while if you take into account the previous similar 2 schools were the same indoctrination was applied), so we are accustomed to it and we can spot the obvious lies; but Yanquis should beware :-)

[+] jnbiche|10 years ago|reply
> Curious to see what type of students will go there.

Well, we know they'll all be between the ages 18-30.

And yes, tuition fees are a real problem here, for people of all ages. Shame he chose to limit the program to a demographic that is already welcome and advantaged in the US's technical community.

[+] gbersac|10 years ago|reply
I don't understand why you are downvoted because this is a great question, and true that the top most students do not go there, they prefer engineering schools (but there is good students there).

disclosure, I am a 42 school student in Paris, first promotion

[+] howandwhy|10 years ago|reply
I am currently 41, went to a Coding bootcamp in Bay area and after I graduated, I struggled to find a job for 6-8 months but ultimately succeeded to land one as a developer job. But I have had to drop $12k on tuition which I think it will take couple of years to pay off. The bootcamp did very little to add value to my learning skill and portfolio of projects.

I would have applied to institution like this in a heartbeat but I guess 42 would have been a no-entry for me. Why this discrimination? And also it is irony that they wont take anybody above 30 much less 40 years old but the institution is named as 42. Can anybody tell me why the organization named itself 42?

[+] JohanByttner|10 years ago|reply
42 is from Douglas Adams, the answer to the question of life and all that.

I do t know about the age limit, but it might be some (possibly faulty) reasoning about commitment. Staff have been tight-lipped. We have some people from the Pole Emploi (unemployment agency) here at the moment, and they are a bit older, so some kind of trial is underway.

[+] ones_and_zeros|10 years ago|reply
12k should be a drop in the bucket for a Bay Area developer. You may be underpaid?

42 is the answer to life.

[+] grrrrreg|10 years ago|reply
There's an already existing university in San Francisco named Holberton School running on this non-profit, peer-reviewed, project-based non traditional curriculum. If the arbitrary limit set by 42 excludes you, Holberton doesn't and diversity is actually one of their grander mandates. I have spoken with the current students and school staff: they really are getting quality training. (Disclaimer: I'm a mentor at this school)
[+] Ramiuz|10 years ago|reply
I'd love to signup to 42, specially after E.E. to become a soft. Eng. In fact I've been looking something like this (an internship or codecamp) that will accept someone from abroad. But as always, the need for the in-person signup and test it's what deters me.
[+] ValentineC|10 years ago|reply
From the website:

> 42 allows students who have successfully completed the selection tests to continue their training at the Silicon Valley or Paris campuses (under the condition that they have the necessary immigration visa for their choice. The visa formalities need to be completed by the student, 42 cannot give a visa).

In the application form itself:

> If you are applying for 42 Paris you must either be a citizen of the European Union or have a valid titre de séjour while you are a student at 42.

> 42 cannot provide immigration visas for students. If you are applying for 42 Fremont you must be a citizen of the United States or have a valid green card while you are a student at 42.

What does this mean? Would 42 be able to act as a sponsor of sort if a student is successfully admitted into the program, or will this be open only to those fortunate enough to either be born in the US or EU, or have a residence permit of some sort?

[+] JohanByttner|10 years ago|reply
From what the staff have told us in Paris, 42 isn't approved by the authorities, so they cannot use the official channels to offer visa sponsorships.

Some students sign up for language courses so they can attend. Sad, but not much that can be done at the moment.

[+] Swinx43|10 years ago|reply
This is something that looks very interesting. I wonder if this would ever come to the UK. I know France is just across the channel but there surely is massive demand for this in the UK as well.
[+] JohanByttner|10 years ago|reply
There is something similar called NMITE, which is run by a few universities.

If you want a 42-like school, speak with your local MP. 42 is run on a budget of €7m (approximately) per year, and it would be very affordable if the government got behind it with a Royal Charter.

[+] j_h_s|10 years ago|reply
Has there been any discussion as to what happens after Neil's funding runs out? Is the school then going to start charging tuition?
[+] fbucher|10 years ago|reply
Nop. We have already funding solution for now or after.