This is one of those tech urban legends that keeps popping up. Facebook does have an opt-in feature that can identify what music, tv show or movie you are listening to or watching, but that's it.
This could be rigorously studied. A group of people could attempt to plant false advertising opportunities in their speech and then measure the frequency at which related ads/posts arrive in their feed. I would trust something like this more than an assertion by FB that this is not happening.
Evey now and again I see a picture or article being shared around saying Facebook are spying on you and how their apps have all these permissions to use your camera and phone audio.
If they are on android, I tell them to open their system settings and show them how Google Search has just about every privilege on your phone and has had it since they turned it on.
Even if people are concerned they still don't stop using Facebook or android. :/
FB just recently shot their credibility though by making statements that seemed very dishonest regarding their content bias. I don't think it's a big issue but it'll look that way. It'll cause people to think twice -- who knows, maybe next week FB will announce "a bug in the code sometimes accidentally listened to a few users' phone calls" and "we are reviewing our auditing mechanisms to ensure this doesn't happen again".
Is it a net gain for society if they're more wary, even if this particular instance is wrong?
The android app asks for microphone privilege as of a few years back when they introduced the listen-in feature. The problem here to me, is that when they add the voluntary feature they force everyone to give the app all the permissions needed as well. By doing this your phone has no way of stopping the app from misbehaving as it has given permission for it to do so.
At least that was the case when the feature came out. I think I read something about android now letting you filter permissions and not blindly accept all that an app asks for?
As recent as of a couple years ago, Facebook's android app required access to your text messages to read texts. They were reading every text you sent & received just for some fancy Facebook linking.
Be a stretch to call this an urban legend, unless you're saying the people referenced in the story don't exist.
That said, this is lazy & irresponsible reporting on what is at best a singlural event.
If it was reproduced, this is clearly a violation of Facebooks terms of service, regardless of if the user has opted to let Facebook listen to the music and TV that's playing in the background.
Another anecdotal-data-of-sample-size-one, my wife was at a bar and struck up a conversation with another person to whom she had no connections. After she left, Facebook suggested this person as a friend.
The other person may have searched for her on Facebook, causing her to be listed as a possible friend. Or perhaps Facebook uses location data to group people that are in the same location for an extended period of time.
It would be interesting if someone at Facebook could provide some insight into this.
A similar instance on my part: I started working at a new job last year, but didn't add that information to my Facebook account or any other online account (even LinkedIn, which I trust even less than FB). Within a week all of my new coworkers started showing up as suggested friends.
Now here's the fun part: My government job has a strict electronic device security policy, and employees are forbidden from carrying cellphones, smart watches, and any other connected devices into the building; I have to leave my phone in the car. So, how does Facebook know that I have new connections with these people? The only thing I can think of is that each of them looked me up on the site after meeting me. Another more insidious thought is that Facebook is using GPS location data to see where I go every morning and depart from every evening and is assuming that it's my new job (Google did this in the past when I had an Android phone and had Google Now enabled, it figured out on its own where my last new job was, but that was a documented "feature").
Either way, Facebook now knows where I work even though I deliberately chose not to tell them.
I once tried out Tan-tan, China's version of Twitter. I was idly swiping away until I saw, on one girl, "you have crossed paths with her twice!" underneath which was a Baidu maps frame showing Balboa Park station.
You hand the cashier a credit card, she thinks you're cute, too. Cashier reads name on credit card, wonders "if he's on Facebook", looks you up and there's your connection. Something something Occam's Razor.
This happened multiple times to me in the past as well. Most likely the other person searched for my name on FB causing FB to recommend the searcher as friend to me (LinkedIn uses the same technique). Location data sounds strange, that'd mean FB would constantly recommend other people sitting in the same restaurant etc.
it could also use 'same ip' data, apparently, so if they were using the bar wifi you'd get a friend suggestion, even if you never gave location access to facebook.
A friend of mine was having a discussion with a contractor working in his yard about something he was entirely unfamiliar with--natural gas powered grills.
Having never researched the topic before, he was a little unnerved later to have Facebook serving him natural gas grill content ads. (still having not ever google'd them or anything)
I can confirm that Facebook suggests people that have looked up your name.
I don't use FB on my phone, never have. Hence no location/IP/network data. I have not filled out where I work, but searched the place up once before.
A coworker who wanted to friend me and presumably searched for my name still gets suggested as possible friend a year after I quit the place. We have no possible mutual friends, I have never been on his profile, or searched the names of any of my coworkers.
>The other person may have searched for her on Facebook, causing her to be listed as a possible friend. Or perhaps Facebook uses location data to group people that are in the same location for an extended period of time.
Probably the first -- since I, and millions of people, stay with hundreds of people we don't know for the same period of time and more (in bars, airports, workplaces, queues, concerts, shops, etc), and they still are not suggested to us.
People who I've searched for always appear as recommendations afterwards. My best guess is that this is a reverse of that, your wife was searched and so got the recommendation. I still don't like it though.
Can't speak for Android, but on iOS it is not possible for an app to "listen" to your microphone unless it is in the foreground, and you have explicitly given the app permission to do this (the first time the app attempts to do so). It can also be revoked at any time without removing the app.
The only way around this restriction would be using a private API Apple could have provided. Given that Apple has even integrated some aspects of Facebook into iOS, this is not totally impossible, but it's hard to imagine Apple having an incentive in allowing Facebook to passively record and transmit all user audio. To date, Apple actually seem to be pretty good at protecting user's privacy.
Unless Heard has stopped working then this is not 100% true http://www.heardapp.com/ It may put a banner on the top bar but I've used this app and it worked just fine.
You mean when they removed their warrant canary a few years ago under the guise of "new security policy"?
When they were found to be tracking GPS positions even with GPS disabled? (Sorry it's impossible to find a link to this anymore)
How about the Bluetooth vulnerabilities their desktop computer suffer -- I've seen keyboard connections trivially hijacked.
I'm not suggesting that Apple has made a deal with Facebook (I think you're right on not being incentivized to do this), but to say Apple is "pretty good" at protecting a user's privacy, I question that.
“That is kind of weird,” she laughed. “I’m still not so sure this isn’t just coincidence. I don’t think Facebook is really listening to our conversations.”
This is a terrible article. There's an easy way to figure out if it's a coincidence... repeat the experiment.
99% sure this is not a coincidence, here's my theory: people's IRL conversations can be pretty reliably predicted by their Facebook conversations, so targeted ads based on messages tend to be surprisingly relevant to the next thing they talk about IRL.
Example: my girlfriend was given a box of Flonase by her parents and immediately got a Facebook ad for it. She had not mentioned Flonase anywhere on Facebook ever. Spoopy eavesdropping? No --- she did talk on Facebook about her ENT appointment that morning. And what products might be relevant for someone going to an ENT doctor? Allergy medication.
And in cases like that, it's very likely that your two recommendations from different sources will happen to match --- what brand of medication are your parents likely to recommend? A popular one that spends a lot of $ on advertising. What brand is likely to buy ads? A popular one that spends a lot of $ on advertising.
I agree that the nature of the article is bad but still I would not be surprised to hear that Facebook is listening to phone conversations. That's why I don't use it. :P
As one of the people said below, there is an easy way to test the validity of that statement – take 30+ participants with randomly selected backgrounds and friend networks and break them into 2 groups for different ‘trigger word’ and then study their newsfeeds.
It seems that there is a subgenre of geek-oriented clickbaiting, which has a strong claim about something tech-related like AMAZGOOGBOOK with little proof or scientific study. We, as a community, can be better at identifying and pointing out deficiencies in the scientific method, instead of saying ‘I’m not sure they do it, but it would be scary, if they did’.
The story about uber tracking your battery status is legit and has been proven and I don’t remember it climbing as high as no 2 on the front page, so IMO we can readjust our BS-meters.
Android M above (<strike>N</strike>) you can disable various permissions asked by an app. I have disabled everything for Facebook (except storage). No location, contacts, microphone, calendar, phone, sms or even camera. You're not allowed here, facebook. So it can't do much damage for at least those versions of Android.
https://mbasic.facebook.com has been amazing for me. I don't have Messenger nor Facebook on my phone, it's a faster and data plan friendly alternative. Not to mention no notifications.
I've had this happen to me so many times, that I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. At this point in history it seems that any surveillance that is technically possible will be done.
I see two ways to do this, sending audio to Facebook or doing speech-to-text on the phone.
Sending audio to Facebook would be so obvious that presumably somebody would have noticed by now.
So that leaves speech-to-text on the phone. However, if that was on "all the time" or even some significant fraction, wouldn't that take an enormous amount of battery power? I'm not sure exactly how much juice on-handset speech-to-text takes but it seems like it would be nontrivial.
On the flip side, I do have to admit that Facebook probably already shows up on the top of most people's CPU and data listings already, but, still, it seems like this could easily be an order of magnitude beyond even that for many people. Surely someone by now would have noticed that they didn't even open Facebook today but it's the top battery draw and/or data user for the day?
Forget whether Facebook wants to do this. I'll take it as read that, duh, yes they do. The question in my mind is can they actually do this without being noticed somewhere other than a local news channel? I mean this question seriously; as you can see above I've already sort of laid out the parameters, so I'd ask that replies here not just "guess" how much juice speech recognition takes, I already did, please tell me if you know. (I can't enforce this request, of course.)
For me, this is one step too far. If my phone is just laying around, it should not record the sound in the room and send it to Facebook by default. Sounds like a fake story, would be worried if this is true.
I think it was about 2 years ago that the Facebook android app requested permission to your microphone? As soon as I saw that I warned everyone I knew that they could be listened in on, and uninstalled the app on my phone, using FB through a browser if need be.
I find it interesting how people accept such things without a question. But I guess articles like these are good even if they're late to the party.
Well, either we are going to see a Facebook exodus happen due to privacy concerns (unlikely) or now almost everyone is comfortable being watched 24/7 and the next wave of apps cough SNAPCHAT will learn to exploit people recording every moment of their lives thinking it actually goes away. (unfortunate)
Google have access to all your mails, web search, documents, travels, habits...
Facebook have access to your friends, family, pictures...
And you guys worry about them listening to your conversation...I mean most of the info they gather with that they already have them by other means
This article has a single anecdote whose source isn't even convinced of the veracity of the headline:
“That is kind of weird,” she laughed. “I’m still not so sure this isn’t just coincidence. I don’t think Facebook is really listening to our conversations.”
[+] [-] onewaystreet|9 years ago|reply
This is one of those tech urban legends that keeps popping up. Facebook does have an opt-in feature that can identify what music, tv show or movie you are listening to or watching, but that's it.
http://newsroom.fb.com/news/2014/05/a-new-optional-way-to-sh...
https://www.facebook.com/help/iphone-app/369513256545845
[+] [-] lunula|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Pengwin|9 years ago|reply
If they are on android, I tell them to open their system settings and show them how Google Search has just about every privilege on your phone and has had it since they turned it on.
Even if people are concerned they still don't stop using Facebook or android. :/
[+] [-] MichaelGG|9 years ago|reply
Is it a net gain for society if they're more wary, even if this particular instance is wrong?
[+] [-] Karlozkiller|9 years ago|reply
At least that was the case when the feature came out. I think I read something about android now letting you filter permissions and not blindly accept all that an app asks for?
[+] [-] hellbanner|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nxzero|9 years ago|reply
That said, this is lazy & irresponsible reporting on what is at best a singlural event.
If it was reproduced, this is clearly a violation of Facebooks terms of service, regardless of if the user has opted to let Facebook listen to the music and TV that's playing in the background.
[+] [-] tdkl|9 years ago|reply
One of the urban legends was also that USA government agencies don't collect data at bulk and they were lying about it. We know the truth now.
Facebook has been caught with the hand in the cookie jar too many times already and got away with it. Fuck Facebook.
[+] [-] jsprogrammer|9 years ago|reply
Facebook would need to be collecting all ambient noise, just to identify (listen to) specific sources, no?
[+] [-] ghayes|9 years ago|reply
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...
[+] [-] nutmeg|9 years ago|reply
The other person may have searched for her on Facebook, causing her to be listed as a possible friend. Or perhaps Facebook uses location data to group people that are in the same location for an extended period of time.
It would be interesting if someone at Facebook could provide some insight into this.
[+] [-] cylinder|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] anysz|9 years ago|reply
Super cute cashier girl. No idea what her name is.
As I'm heading out I open up my news feed and what do you know? There she is in recommended friends. WTF
[+] [-] morganvachon|9 years ago|reply
Now here's the fun part: My government job has a strict electronic device security policy, and employees are forbidden from carrying cellphones, smart watches, and any other connected devices into the building; I have to leave my phone in the car. So, how does Facebook know that I have new connections with these people? The only thing I can think of is that each of them looked me up on the site after meeting me. Another more insidious thought is that Facebook is using GPS location data to see where I go every morning and depart from every evening and is assuming that it's my new job (Google did this in the past when I had an Android phone and had Google Now enabled, it figured out on its own where my last new job was, but that was a documented "feature").
Either way, Facebook now knows where I work even though I deliberately chose not to tell them.
[+] [-] komali2|9 years ago|reply
Swiftly uninstalled.
[+] [-] mikestew|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NiekvdMaas|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AndrewKemendo|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LoSboccacc|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] polartx|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] OhHeyItsE|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MildlySerious|9 years ago|reply
I don't use FB on my phone, never have. Hence no location/IP/network data. I have not filled out where I work, but searched the place up once before.
A coworker who wanted to friend me and presumably searched for my name still gets suggested as possible friend a year after I quit the place. We have no possible mutual friends, I have never been on his profile, or searched the names of any of my coworkers.
[+] [-] coldtea|9 years ago|reply
Probably the first -- since I, and millions of people, stay with hundreds of people we don't know for the same period of time and more (in bars, airports, workplaces, queues, concerts, shops, etc), and they still are not suggested to us.
[+] [-] themagician|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ben_jones|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] overcast|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] animex|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Herald_MJ|9 years ago|reply
The only way around this restriction would be using a private API Apple could have provided. Given that Apple has even integrated some aspects of Facebook into iOS, this is not totally impossible, but it's hard to imagine Apple having an incentive in allowing Facebook to passively record and transmit all user audio. To date, Apple actually seem to be pretty good at protecting user's privacy.
[+] [-] joshstrange|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hellbanner|9 years ago|reply
When they were found to be tracking GPS positions even with GPS disabled? (Sorry it's impossible to find a link to this anymore)
How about the Bluetooth vulnerabilities their desktop computer suffer -- I've seen keyboard connections trivially hijacked.
I'm not suggesting that Apple has made a deal with Facebook (I think you're right on not being incentivized to do this), but to say Apple is "pretty good" at protecting a user's privacy, I question that.
[+] [-] madmax96|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tlrobinson|9 years ago|reply
This is a terrible article. There's an easy way to figure out if it's a coincidence... repeat the experiment.
[+] [-] capitalsigma|9 years ago|reply
Example: my girlfriend was given a box of Flonase by her parents and immediately got a Facebook ad for it. She had not mentioned Flonase anywhere on Facebook ever. Spoopy eavesdropping? No --- she did talk on Facebook about her ENT appointment that morning. And what products might be relevant for someone going to an ENT doctor? Allergy medication.
And in cases like that, it's very likely that your two recommendations from different sources will happen to match --- what brand of medication are your parents likely to recommend? A popular one that spends a lot of $ on advertising. What brand is likely to buy ads? A popular one that spends a lot of $ on advertising.
[+] [-] imakesoft|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pmontra|9 years ago|reply
However they could do it with Whatsapp. There is no alternative to that.
[+] [-] petr_tik|9 years ago|reply
It seems that there is a subgenre of geek-oriented clickbaiting, which has a strong claim about something tech-related like AMAZGOOGBOOK with little proof or scientific study. We, as a community, can be better at identifying and pointing out deficiencies in the scientific method, instead of saying ‘I’m not sure they do it, but it would be scary, if they did’.
The story about uber tracking your battery status is legit and has been proven and I don’t remember it climbing as high as no 2 on the front page, so IMO we can readjust our BS-meters.
[+] [-] piyush_soni|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 0x0|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] haywirez|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 13hours|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ricardobeat|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jerf|9 years ago|reply
Sending audio to Facebook would be so obvious that presumably somebody would have noticed by now.
So that leaves speech-to-text on the phone. However, if that was on "all the time" or even some significant fraction, wouldn't that take an enormous amount of battery power? I'm not sure exactly how much juice on-handset speech-to-text takes but it seems like it would be nontrivial.
On the flip side, I do have to admit that Facebook probably already shows up on the top of most people's CPU and data listings already, but, still, it seems like this could easily be an order of magnitude beyond even that for many people. Surely someone by now would have noticed that they didn't even open Facebook today but it's the top battery draw and/or data user for the day?
Forget whether Facebook wants to do this. I'll take it as read that, duh, yes they do. The question in my mind is can they actually do this without being noticed somewhere other than a local news channel? I mean this question seriously; as you can see above I've already sort of laid out the parameters, so I'd ask that replies here not just "guess" how much juice speech recognition takes, I already did, please tell me if you know. (I can't enforce this request, of course.)
[+] [-] deadtofu|9 years ago|reply
Maybe they aren't listening to the conversations per se, but for an audio beacons in television and radio?
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/your-p...
[+] [-] dawhizkid|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] defenestration|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Karlozkiller|9 years ago|reply
I find it interesting how people accept such things without a question. But I guess articles like these are good even if they're late to the party.
[+] [-] atdt|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bunkydoo|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neo2006|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brown9-2|9 years ago|reply
“That is kind of weird,” she laughed. “I’m still not so sure this isn’t just coincidence. I don’t think Facebook is really listening to our conversations.”