As a former Chinese international student graduated from one of the top Canadian universities with distinction, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, the toxic culture permeated the Chinese visa student community is definitely responsible for the high rate of cheating. Most Chinese visa students came to study in the west did not came to pursue academic excellence. They (and their parents most likely) see it as a way to beef up their profile with a foreign diploma. This was a culture that I tried so desperately to stay away from when I was in school.
On the other hand, I feel bad that the broad generalization impacts tremendously negatively those Chinese visa students who did pursue their dream and passion which led them to a foreign university. I worked hard to graduate with distinction, and learned my stuff well enough to go on and have a successful career, but I always feel I have to go the extra mile just to prove myself; I have to go above-and-beyond just to gain equal footing. I cannot quantify the negative impact the those people cause, but it's incredibly unfair to be prejudiced just because I may look like those people.
Academic dishonesty is certainly not a Chinese-only problem. The media singling out a group such as the Chinese visa students is certainly a popular thing to do to gain clicks, but it's a little unfair.
As a former grad student who has interacted with both the good and the bad of your group, I understand the differences... and regret the unfortunate realities.
I remember a Chinese PhD student who could not function in spoken English . Nice guy. Always smiled, bobbed his head, and said "hi", and that was the extent of his verbal vocab. Still don't know how he got into an American graduate school. Really brings the department down. :-/
I went to grad school with a lot of Chinese visa students. It was pretty clear about a week in who was the real deal (absolutely brilliant students) and who had worked the system to get into the school. The ones that had cheated their way in generally were generally just average folks who had taken what they viewed as their best option in a very high pressure and high stakes situation. I'm guessing most of my US raised classmates would have made the same decisions in same situations and certainly fair bit of them cheated although usually in less dramatic fashion.
The part that is surprising to me is that schools aren't doing much to prevent this. Studies show us when humans are likely to cheat and probability of getting caught is at the top of the list [1]. How universities and colleges can raise tuition an average of 8% a year and get away without doing a minimum of due diligence around cheating is beyond me. Simple things like some certified system for transcripts, letters of recommendation and teachers who ID/recognize their students would be a huge step to resolving these issues. At my grad school the only change was to make foreign students take the TOEFL[3] upon arrival which solved their big problem of english skills as graduate students are supposed to be teaching assistants in undergrad classes.
I understand your frustration. The difference is at least clear to most other students, even if it's not so clear elsewhere. When I attended university in the UK about ten years ago, about 1/3 of the students on my course were Chinese. Unfortunately I reckon the majority of these were suspect. Many could barely speak English, and when doing group work would contribute to the written work in broken English, but then mysteriously submit flawlessly written final work. However there were several Chinese students who were clearly smart and doing their own work, but these were sadly very much in the minority. There were lots of other international students and none of the rest were suspect. I'm not saying there was no other cheating as I'm sure there was, but none of the rest made me wonder how they even got onto the course, let alone maintained good grades.
> The media singling out a group such as the Chinese visa students is certainly a popular thing to do to gain clicks
There are a lot of Chinese in American schools. They account for a greater proportion of students.
There are also ton of really bright Chinese like yourself who work hard. News articles don't tell the full story, but I think most readers understand and can identify stereotypes. If they can't, well, that's their loss.
I used to teach at a community college which attracted a lot of Chinese students. I found that for the most part they legitimately wanted to learn the subject I was teaching, but that the language barrier was a problem for many. They would sit in the back and the student with the best comprehension would quietly translate for the rest. When it came to assignments, they did their own work as far as I could tell. So when I read reports like the article, I see this more as an indictment of the U.S. university system (as opposed to the CC system) than of Chinese students. My own experience tells me that there are plenty of students who are willing to do the work, so we're deliberately importing students who aren't, and doing so disproportionately into the university system. I see this as symptomatic of the "I'll pretend to teach and you pretend to learn" culture currently strangling undergraduate instruction at R1 universities.
You're 100% correct that it's not a Chinese-only problem. But I don't think the media is focusing on Chinese students because they're Chinese, but because the businesses that specifically advertise to and help Chinese students are being exposed.
>The media singling out a group such as the Chinese visa students is certainly a popular thing to do to gain clicks, but it's a little unfair.
Did you bother to read the article? There is a cheating industry that caters to the Chinese. This is a valid topic to write about. I think going full politically correct just makes us all stupid. This industry exists for a reason; there's demand from the Chinese and this most likely ties into the ideas of success from Chinese culture where cheating and copy is tolerated, if not encouraged.
> Academic dishonesty is certainly not a Chinese-only problem. The media singling out a group such as the Chinese visa students is certainly a popular thing to do to gain clicks, but it's a little unfair.
Nobody suggested that academic disonesty is chinese only, everyone suggests that there is an industry that reliable will attract wealthy Chinese families to pay for preferential treatment at top universities. It would be dishonest to say otherwise.
I reckon what you say. All the chinese students I know from grad school are few of the most honest & hardworking people. There are thousands of people even from my country(India) who come here only for prestige diluting the genuine student population who come here. Also, it is up to the universities to have a thorough check in these cases.
Australia is also a popular destination for Chinese students and sees high rates of cheating for many of the same reasons as those given in the article. Poor language skills allowed by lax student visa requirements, isolation, and the high penalties for failing a course when your family is paying full price creates desperation.
4 corners did a pretty good story on it and the smh investigation into MyMaster was also pretty good. Even if you can't get the video on 4 corners, the transcript is available.
The international students have unreasonably high standards for maintaining financial assistance and staying out of academic probation(3.5-3.8 at my university). By design college courses give work just a little beyond what a student can reasonably accomplish(with a "good" grade) and curve accordingly. These kids aren't just cheating they are marginalizing students who are honest or don't have this kind of social access. If you're not part of a fraterntiy/sorority that archives coursework/tests of previous students or part of an international student in-group then you can easily fall through the cracks from this grade deflation effect.
>If you're not part of a fraterntiy/sorority that archives coursework/tests of previous students or part of an international student in-group then you can easily fall through the cracks from this grade deflation effect.
That is a huge problem for a lot of us more introverted types, especially if you're a transfer student from another school. I remember taking a bunch of classes where I didn't know anyone and had no one to discuss problems and solutions with. Organic chemistry, diff eq, among others, but pretty much all classes were like that. Having social anxiety issues made it very hard to work my way into the community. Meanwhile the other students had all been stuck together in the same program for years, the same dorms, the same fraternities, etc.
I'd come in and the entire rest of the class would be sitting around sharing their homework answers, copying each other on the ones they couldn't figure out, getting help from each other... Never had any access to it and I know I worked harder for lower grades (in some cases) just because I wasn't part of the in-group.
> These kids aren't just cheating they are marginalizing students who are honest or don't have this kind of social access
Sue the school [1]. There are firms that specialize in protecting people's rights in education [2]. Suing doesn't make you a bad person, and you don't even have to do the talking
>If you're not part of a fraterntiy/sorority that archives coursework/tests of previous students or part of an international student in-group then you can easily fall through the cracks from this grade deflation effect.
+1 I saw this going on at my highly ranked university. After many B's, my self-esteem got a boost senior year when I finally took a newly required course with a new professor where there were no old tests to study and got an A.
Maybe that's a sign that these people shouldn't be cheating to get into a school that they can't work their way out of. These aren't victims, they're cheaters taking spots from other people.
A 3.5 is easy. I got a a 3.82 at my school of engineering, while working, and commuting for about 4 hours per day. I didn't really even try that hard in school.
I went to a public university with a large international population and this doesn't surprise me in the slightest. A lot of the international students were extremely poor at english. One of the guys on my software project team was an international student who confirmed that it was very easy to pay someone to take the english proficiency exam.
Us Americans aren't so innocent though. The amount of adderall/vyvanse/ritalin... that goes through college campuses is ridiculous.
Honestly, I feel that it's just a symptom of extreme competition. With colleges and first time jobs taking such extreme care to filter on GPA and the likes, every little bit usually pays off.
To be fair, there is a difference between adderall and actual cheating. One of these is a thing that helps you do your own work better, and the other is hiring someone else to do your work for you.
One of these things is fraudulent, and the other is simply performance enhancement. Taking Adderall to study doesn't make you less competent at the subject in question, whereas cheating your way through tests does.
These types of discussions always depress me. You'd think from reading them that everyone has cheated or popped some Adderall at some point, and it's a normal part of college. Is that really true? I never have, unless you count making up excuses for turning in the occasional thing late. I worked hard in school and got decent but not amazing grades (3.7 something). When I hear this shit it makes me feel like I was playing the game handicapped all along.
Either that or the cheaters among is are always looking for ways to rationalize it by making it seem more normative.
Where I live the modus operandi is amphetamines 48 hours before exam with aspirin. Study without sleeping. Take exam. Sleep. Forget everything. At least the kids don't do it for important professions - the ones I knew did it were mostly medical students and civil engineers /s.
One class of 40 students, about 20 were Chinese foreign students.
Turns out, they were each doing 40+ credits that semester. About 20+ from the U.S. university, and about 20+ from a Chinese university (online).
How's that possible? They were sharing assignments and exams. Each one had the responsibility to do the same assignment and exam over and over for about half a dozen others.
They were on track to complete a 4-year program in 2 years. The actual degree was being awarded by the Chinese university, and they were transferring the credits from the U.S. university.
Isn't that kinda counter productive? I would assume that a degree from a US university would count for much more which is part of the reason why so many of the Chinese upper class are sending their children to the US - the stamp on the paper is worth more than the actual education.
"Australia's international student market is a $15 billion industry and the country's largest export after iron ore, coal and gold"... and money talks.
Cheating is and always should be a pox that needs to be eradicated. But let's not turn a blind eye to what's happening here locally. Parents in the 1% spend an extraordinary amount of money and resources on college-prep companies, many of which tell the kids exactly what extracurriculars to take, what to do after school, and virtually write the entire outline of their admissions essays. It's little wonder that schools like Harvard are playgrounds for the ultra-elite.
Give me a break. I went to a big state school that wasn't a playground for the elite, but you'd see these Chinese students who could barely speak enough English to order a pizza demonstrating supposed mastery of written English in core classes.
The "ABC" Chinese students who were pissed off about the blatant cheating, reported one group of foreign students were openly sharing answers during the test in Mandarin. The ethics committee's investigation was "undetermined" and no action was taken.
The reasoning is pretty clear -- foreign students pay more and pay in cash.
That's way different than these companies producing fake transcripts and even taking exams on behalf of students. Everyone has right to do college-prep as much as they like and everyone would get help in essays from friends, parents and professionals. But flat out lying, making up your grades and having someone else take exams for you is whole different ball game.
When I began graduate school, it was very surprising to me to see how the Chinese kids all cheated together as a matter of course and the Indian kids all cheated together as a matter of course. Some of the Americans would cheat somewhat, but furtively, rather than just being an ingrained part of culture.
(with the exception of one top Indian student who had no need for cheating whatsoever)
And it's also precisely anathema to the purpose of a university. It's especially infuriating if people are doing it while studying CS or similar engineering topics, because in most cases the job market doesn't require the credentials only the skills and their cheating is causing grade deflation for people who actually put forth effort.
I was taking a school bus license endorsement exam and saw they throw out a Chinese girl for cheating. The examiner said it was a fairly frequent occurrence. They couldn't read the questions or answers but they could match the picture with the correct line of answers on the computerized testing machine after enough memorization.
In the past, only the brightest and best Chinese students could come to US, mostly by scholarship for their master/PhD, most of them stayed after the study.
These days, the majority students from China are those ordinary kids(or even worse) with a rich dad, most of them are the only child in the family which was likely spoiled, these combined produced a quality issue, so we're seeing them on the news, that they cheat, they committed crimes, they do drugs,etc.
In the meantime, many universities are in need of cash, which is another reason in the mix.
So all in all, it's all about money, one needs that, another one has that but not much more than that, thus all kinds of related issues.
Perhaps a dumb question but why doesn't the Chinese government crack down on this? I feel like they have a pretty good handle on what's going on within their borders, and this issue is poisoning the reputation of Chinese-born young people whether as applicants to companies, applicants to grad school, or generally as trustworthy human beings.
Is it because the college students benefiting from these operations are the children of influential people? That's the only explanation I can think of that makes any sense.
Have seen at last one Chinese guy's profile on Upwork having some test passed with maximum score, completed within ~5 minutes (while the time for a test is usually ~40 minutes).
This is something that isn't just unique to higher education in the U.S, it's pretty much standard practice back in China as well. It's all about rote memorization & tests. What you can't memorize, you find a way to cheat through. You can't cheat? Then buy off your professor or teacher. Bribing educators in China is the quickest and easiest way to pass. Practically no creative learning takes place in China.
This is interesting to me because it's something that's inherent to China's culture. It persists passed the education stage of their life, well into adulthood. And that's a terrible shame because it sets up China for failure.
Without actually learning/understanding the material (and learning to think critically), the general populace isn't equipped and stands no chance when it comes to future innovations. The foundation for future technological innovation (in any industry) simply isn't there. Their country has always been a few steps behind, and keeps falling further and further behind as the decades pass. There are no new big innovations coming out of China, they've only been able to hold their own (if you can call it that) by buying, copying or stealing technology from other countries, entities or businesses. The problem is, China's targets have wised up over the years, so future IP/technology theft will be much, much harder if not impossible.
Unfortunately, I think because this has its roots in China's culture (systemic), there is no quick fix as changing the culture of a billion people is nearly impossible. I think the entire thing needs to come down and be rebuilt from scratch.
Entire copies of the SAT are getting released in China, and possibly the US. The College Board's ETS cancelled January 2016's test in China out of concern that the test that would be used was already available on the internet. Then they gave another test in March. Questions from that test started appearing online within hours after it finished [1]
The problem with this is that the College Board reuses tests. They do not feel it is feasible for them to issue unique questions for each test, according to [2]
This undermines the biggest criteria used to admit students to college
It means rich kids in China can buy their way into US colleges through these companies that compile actual SAT questions, and poorer kids who have done honest hard work will miss out on opportunities to study in the US.
So long as this goes unaddressed, we're importing rich kids who will arrive unprepared and return home without much further education. They're simply giving money to certain institutions in the US and not adding much to the development of US or Chinese innovations. The quality of schools could degrade, causing a weaker economy, etc. etc.
Hope the College Board can see how pervasive this is. The internet is a real game changer when it comes to maintaining academic integrity.
[+] [-] jchiu1106|9 years ago|reply
On the other hand, I feel bad that the broad generalization impacts tremendously negatively those Chinese visa students who did pursue their dream and passion which led them to a foreign university. I worked hard to graduate with distinction, and learned my stuff well enough to go on and have a successful career, but I always feel I have to go the extra mile just to prove myself; I have to go above-and-beyond just to gain equal footing. I cannot quantify the negative impact the those people cause, but it's incredibly unfair to be prejudiced just because I may look like those people.
Academic dishonesty is certainly not a Chinese-only problem. The media singling out a group such as the Chinese visa students is certainly a popular thing to do to gain clicks, but it's a little unfair.
</end-of-rant>
[+] [-] pnathan|9 years ago|reply
I remember a Chinese PhD student who could not function in spoken English . Nice guy. Always smiled, bobbed his head, and said "hi", and that was the extent of his verbal vocab. Still don't know how he got into an American graduate school. Really brings the department down. :-/
[+] [-] chuckcode|9 years ago|reply
The part that is surprising to me is that schools aren't doing much to prevent this. Studies show us when humans are likely to cheat and probability of getting caught is at the top of the list [1]. How universities and colleges can raise tuition an average of 8% a year and get away without doing a minimum of due diligence around cheating is beyond me. Simple things like some certified system for transcripts, letters of recommendation and teachers who ID/recognize their students would be a huge step to resolving these issues. At my grad school the only change was to make foreign students take the TOEFL[3] upon arrival which solved their big problem of english skills as graduate students are supposed to be teaching assistants in undergrad classes.
[1] http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/inside-the-cheaters-m... [2] http://www.finaid.org/savings/tuition-inflation.phtml [3] https://www.ets.org/toefl
[+] [-] ascorbic|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] studentrob|9 years ago|reply
There are a lot of Chinese in American schools. They account for a greater proportion of students.
There are also ton of really bright Chinese like yourself who work hard. News articles don't tell the full story, but I think most readers understand and can identify stereotypes. If they can't, well, that's their loss.
[+] [-] sevensor|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tallanvor|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drzaiusapelord|9 years ago|reply
Did you bother to read the article? There is a cheating industry that caters to the Chinese. This is a valid topic to write about. I think going full politically correct just makes us all stupid. This industry exists for a reason; there's demand from the Chinese and this most likely ties into the ideas of success from Chinese culture where cheating and copy is tolerated, if not encouraged.
[+] [-] cloudjacker|9 years ago|reply
Nobody suggested that academic disonesty is chinese only, everyone suggests that there is an industry that reliable will attract wealthy Chinese families to pay for preferential treatment at top universities. It would be dishonest to say otherwise.
[+] [-] vthallam|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] e40|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway5321|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] kirrent|9 years ago|reply
4 corners did a pretty good story on it and the smh investigation into MyMaster was also pretty good. Even if you can't get the video on 4 corners, the transcript is available.
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2015/04/20/4217741.ht...
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/mymaster-essay-cheating-scandal-mo...
[+] [-] s_baby|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qrendel|9 years ago|reply
That is a huge problem for a lot of us more introverted types, especially if you're a transfer student from another school. I remember taking a bunch of classes where I didn't know anyone and had no one to discuss problems and solutions with. Organic chemistry, diff eq, among others, but pretty much all classes were like that. Having social anxiety issues made it very hard to work my way into the community. Meanwhile the other students had all been stuck together in the same program for years, the same dorms, the same fraternities, etc.
I'd come in and the entire rest of the class would be sitting around sharing their homework answers, copying each other on the ones they couldn't figure out, getting help from each other... Never had any access to it and I know I worked harder for lower grades (in some cases) just because I wasn't part of the in-group.
[+] [-] studentrob|9 years ago|reply
Sue the school [1]. There are firms that specialize in protecting people's rights in education [2]. Suing doesn't make you a bad person, and you don't even have to do the talking
[1] http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/01/sport/ncaa-response-to-law...
[2] https://www.thefire.org/
[+] [-] tomkat0789|9 years ago|reply
+1 I saw this going on at my highly ranked university. After many B's, my self-esteem got a boost senior year when I finally took a newly required course with a new professor where there were no old tests to study and got an A.
[+] [-] troisx|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jdavis703|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrep|9 years ago|reply
Us Americans aren't so innocent though. The amount of adderall/vyvanse/ritalin... that goes through college campuses is ridiculous.
Honestly, I feel that it's just a symptom of extreme competition. With colleges and first time jobs taking such extreme care to filter on GPA and the likes, every little bit usually pays off.
[+] [-] darawk|9 years ago|reply
One of these things is fraudulent, and the other is simply performance enhancement. Taking Adderall to study doesn't make you less competent at the subject in question, whereas cheating your way through tests does.
[+] [-] tdeck|9 years ago|reply
Either that or the cheaters among is are always looking for ways to rationalize it by making it seem more normative.
[+] [-] venomsnake|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cs2818|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hackaflocka|9 years ago|reply
One class of 40 students, about 20 were Chinese foreign students.
Turns out, they were each doing 40+ credits that semester. About 20+ from the U.S. university, and about 20+ from a Chinese university (online).
How's that possible? They were sharing assignments and exams. Each one had the responsibility to do the same assignment and exam over and over for about half a dozen others.
They were on track to complete a 4-year program in 2 years. The actual degree was being awarded by the Chinese university, and they were transferring the credits from the U.S. university.
[+] [-] dogma1138|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tristanj|9 years ago|reply
http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/college-s...
http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/college-s...
[+] [-] studentrob|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jboles|9 years ago|reply
Ghostwriting scandal that hit a bunch of Australian universities about 18 months ago:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/students-enlist-mym...
"Australia's international student market is a $15 billion industry and the country's largest export after iron ore, coal and gold"... and money talks.
[+] [-] whack|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Spooky23|9 years ago|reply
The "ABC" Chinese students who were pissed off about the blatant cheating, reported one group of foreign students were openly sharing answers during the test in Mandarin. The ethics committee's investigation was "undetermined" and no action was taken.
The reasoning is pretty clear -- foreign students pay more and pay in cash.
[+] [-] sytelus|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SilasX|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cels|9 years ago|reply
(with the exception of one top Indian student who had no need for cheating whatsoever)
[+] [-] studentrob|9 years ago|reply
This culture of cheating goes beyond cheating on the American tests.
In the business world, it's common to give gifts to your boss to get a promotion.
China will not surpass us economically any time soon. Their educational and promotional systems have a long way to go.
[+] [-] mkagenius|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] raincom|9 years ago|reply
This shows that one wants a credential, but does not want to learn. There are tons of people out there who precisely want that.
[+] [-] tristor|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ikeboy|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] raddad|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mmkx|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ausjke|9 years ago|reply
These days, the majority students from China are those ordinary kids(or even worse) with a rich dad, most of them are the only child in the family which was likely spoiled, these combined produced a quality issue, so we're seeing them on the news, that they cheat, they committed crimes, they do drugs,etc.
In the meantime, many universities are in need of cash, which is another reason in the mix.
So all in all, it's all about money, one needs that, another one has that but not much more than that, thus all kinds of related issues.
[+] [-] IndianAstronaut|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] leroy_masochist|9 years ago|reply
Is it because the college students benefiting from these operations are the children of influential people? That's the only explanation I can think of that makes any sense.
[+] [-] andrey_utkin|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mahranch|9 years ago|reply
This is interesting to me because it's something that's inherent to China's culture. It persists passed the education stage of their life, well into adulthood. And that's a terrible shame because it sets up China for failure.
Without actually learning/understanding the material (and learning to think critically), the general populace isn't equipped and stands no chance when it comes to future innovations. The foundation for future technological innovation (in any industry) simply isn't there. Their country has always been a few steps behind, and keeps falling further and further behind as the decades pass. There are no new big innovations coming out of China, they've only been able to hold their own (if you can call it that) by buying, copying or stealing technology from other countries, entities or businesses. The problem is, China's targets have wised up over the years, so future IP/technology theft will be much, much harder if not impossible.
Unfortunately, I think because this has its roots in China's culture (systemic), there is no quick fix as changing the culture of a billion people is nearly impossible. I think the entire thing needs to come down and be rebuilt from scratch.
[+] [-] studentrob|9 years ago|reply
Entire copies of the SAT are getting released in China, and possibly the US. The College Board's ETS cancelled January 2016's test in China out of concern that the test that would be used was already available on the internet. Then they gave another test in March. Questions from that test started appearing online within hours after it finished [1]
The problem with this is that the College Board reuses tests. They do not feel it is feasible for them to issue unique questions for each test, according to [2]
This undermines the biggest criteria used to admit students to college
It means rich kids in China can buy their way into US colleges through these companies that compile actual SAT questions, and poorer kids who have done honest hard work will miss out on opportunities to study in the US.
So long as this goes unaddressed, we're importing rich kids who will arrive unprepared and return home without much further education. They're simply giving money to certain institutions in the US and not adding much to the development of US or Chinese innovations. The quality of schools could degrade, causing a weaker economy, etc. etc.
Hope the College Board can see how pervasive this is. The internet is a real game changer when it comes to maintaining academic integrity.
[1] https://soundcloud.com/reuters/howtogamethesat#t=26:21
[2] https://soundcloud.com/reuters/howtogamethesat#t=5:40