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Idontreddit | 9 years ago
I think we have to stop patting ourselves on the back. Yes, we claim to allow it, but it's a bit more complicated than that. We aren't as open to questioning or "heresy" as you'd like to think. If you've ever worked in academia, you would know this.
> and we have an ethic in academia to study them objectively and try to figure out which is correct.
This is absolutely not true, especially in history and sensitive matters like race, sex, religion, etc.
> So for instance, we can be quite sure that the Nazi idea that the Jews needed to be killed off because they were all evil demons was simply wrong.
Not if the germans had WON THE WAR. That's the point. Look at how differently "history/propaganda" works when it relates to US:natives and Germany:Jews.
Our history cast the natives as savage demons that needed to be wiped out for the advance of civilization and the creation of the US. We make allowances for the genocide of the natives by excusing it with "disease killed many of them" or that it allowed for the creation of the US. But for jews, we do not make such allowances.
If you think we are open to different perspectives, try to get a book published that questions many of the claims of the holocaust. If jared diamond had written about the holocaust ( excusing the deaths of the jews due to the disease and starvation as a result of germany's poor performance in the eastern front ), do you really think the NYTimes/media and academia would have supported it?
All history is propaganda. If the germans had won ww2, the holocaust would have been viewed differently. Hell the word "holocaust" wouldn't even exist. Holocaust was a term israeli jews invented in 1953 to "brand" the genocide. We don't have a branding for the native "holocaust". Or the armenian "holocaust". Or the rwandan "holocaust".
Pick anything in history. Look at the "history" of the israeli/palestine issue. Look at the history of russia/ukraine. Look at the history of US civil war. Different sides have different histories/propaganda. There is no truth, just subjective and selfish propaganda.
Or if you feel more generous, you can say that there are many truths and each side picks their own truths. But regardless, it's propaganda.
I find it laughable how people are so resistent to the simple truth that history is propaganda. But then I realize that it's because they are victims of propaganda.
woodandsteel|9 years ago
What in heavens name are you talking about? There are countless books and articles published in this country, in and out of academia, describing and condemning oppression of blacks, women, and gays. On the last group, this has helped lead to a revolution in recent years in gay rights.
And the reason this is possible is because the US, while it has many faults, is still a democracy with freedom of speech, unlike many authoritarian regimes such as China.
Speaking of which, are you saying we should not be angry at China for re-writing history because it is impossible for any country to be any better? And ditto for other regimes such as Putin's Russia? But you are simply wrong, some countries are vastly better.
Idontreddit|9 years ago
I was fairly explicit and straightforward.
> There are countless books and articles published in this country, in and out of academia, describing and condemning oppression of blacks, women, and gays.
Now. Try to publish anything that portrays blacks, women and gays negatively.
> On the last group, this has helped lead to a revolution in recent years in gay rights.
You mean the relentless hollywood/academic propaganda campaign helped in the revolution? Yes I know.
> And the reason this is possible is because the US, while it has many faults, is still a democracy with freedom of speech, unlike many authoritarian regimes such as China.
We have "freedom of speech" when the elite support the agenda. The elite supported gay marriage/etc. Hence why the media, academia, etc pushed for it while the population resisted. As I said, you couldn't publish anything that negatively portray gays.
> Speaking of which, are you saying we should not be angry at China for re-writing history because it is impossible for any country to be any better?
No. I'm saying everyone re-writes history. Everyone makes it up. Everyone interprets it for their own political agenda. That's all I'm saying. For example, we view george washington as a great founder of the nation. Others view him as a genocidal maniac who went around exterminating natives and skinning them and making leggings out of them. Every nation has propaganda/history. That's what it is created for. History is fiction that unites us all. It is created by the people in power for a purpose.
> And ditto for other regimes such as Putin's Russia?
They have their own history/propaganda as well.
> But you are simply wrong, some countries are vastly better.
"Vastly"? No. Superficially, maybe. Some "history/propaganda" are more sophisticated and clever. Other's, like north korea's history, are silly and immature. Either way, it's all propaganda.
Be angry at china if you want. All I'm saying is that everyone pushes history/propaganda. The fact that you think your "history/propanda" is better just shows that you support that "history/propaganda". Has nothing to do with whether that history is accurate/truthful/etc.
You think your history is better because of your bias, self-interest, agenda, etc. You think your history is better because you grew up with it.