Shows how most CEOs of even large companies are human like everyone else, not the "super mature", "super calculated", "super intelligent" begins they are made out to be. It's also important to note the arrogance - invented the 90 day trial :D
Tangential, but what in the hell is with the whole thing where company execs refuse to use "I" in a sentence? Read anything typed up by some founder or something, and you see sentence after sentence deliberately omitting self-reference. Here specifically: "If they have right to it then more than happy to comply"... If they have right to it then I am/we are more than happy to comply. Anytime someone posts email correspondence on HN, it's inevitably a conversation devoid of self-referential terminology, even in totally innocuous sentences. "More than happy to X. Concerned about the thing with Y. Call this afternoon after meeting with Z." It's totally annoying.
> Trying to piggy back on our business model and copying our model of giving certificates for 90 days for free is not ethical.
I can't even imagine what he was thinking when he was saying this. Well, I can imagine dissonance, but not on the level from where this comes. It's literally insane, given it's business, and software business at that.
> With LE now being an operational business, we were never going to take the these trademark applications any further. Josh posted a link to the application and as of February 8th it was already in a state where it will lapse.
> Josh was wrong when he said we’d “refused to abandon our applications”. We just hadn’t told LE we would leave them to lapse.
> We have now communicated this to LE.
On LE's blog post, they mention that they have repeatedly asked Comodo to abandon the applications since March 2016. If Comodo was going to let the applications lapse as they claim, why not communicate this at the earliest opportunity?
To me this is a dodgy answer at best. I am not so familiar with trademark law, but I don't believe that an application "being in a state where it will lapse" is in any way disarmed - it is my impression that Comodo could simply have opted to continue the process, but is pretending that they wouldn't have in order to avoid bad press.
> If Comodo was going to let the applications lapse as they claim, why not communicate this at the earliest opportunity?
Poor internal communication between the people talking with Comodo and the decisionmakers? Not wanting to give the time of day to the competition, lest they avoiding wasting their time and resources? Deferring committing to the decision until the last moment, in case they change their mind? I can buy it.
> it is my impression that Comodo could simply have opted to continue the process, but is pretending that they wouldn't have in order to avoid bad press.
Based on my (non-lawyer) understanding, a trademark application sounds very much like "not a trademark", and an application that Comodo would eventually lose thanks to clear and conflicting objections from the people actually using the term. I don't think they could've continued indefinitely. I think they would have eventually dropped the process, if only through inaction by allowing the application to expire. I can buy that they were at the point where they were planning internally to drop the process.
Not out of any noble reasons, mind you - they'd have dropped it earlier, I think, if those were the cause. Filing in the first place may have been an act of bad faith. It's just not in Comodo's best interests to not fight a loosing battle to the point that it looses them the war, so to speak. Although it might be a bit late for that.
How is it that the Comodo CEO kept assuming Let's Encrypt and ISRG is a business, when it isn't? It's like he's fixated on that assumption and is dragging everyone else into it.
Further, the last time I read through things about trademarks, my understanding is that they don't work the way some of the people posting say it does. Trademarks are influenced by whether it is a distinguishing mark or not. You can lose trademark protection if it comes into common use. Once registered, you have to keep defending it as a distinguishing mark. So I'm not sure where the "paralegal" in that forum thread is coming up with the argument that it somehow works like a "first-to-file" -- the person who possesses the paperwork possesses the right.
Maybe my understanding is incorrect. If it isn't off though, I can see their lawyers saying, Comodo really doesn't have much of a case (but it'd still eat up a lot of time and resources a small non-profit won't have).
Great to see a resolution to this issue, but this doesn't change the huge distrust in the organisation I've now gained. I won't be for the foreseeable future be buying any Comodo service again. They're clearly horribly misaligned with my values.
We are switching our Comodo certs over to Let's Encrypt because certain old Android versions we have to support work with LE certs but not with Comodo. Particularly important for APIs.
The 90 day expiry is a bit of a faff, but we've mostly automated it using acme.sh and automated DNS edits, and now we just need load balancer access (we just moved to new hosts). LE is a godsend and fully up to commercial use in our experience.
After this, there is no way on earth we're giving Comodo money again. I would rather pay Thawte than these bozos.
Comodo certs have two possible chains. If you want to be supported by older Android (and older iOS) devices, you needed to configure your server to hand out the longer of the chains. When you buy a cert, this is not the chain they will recommend.
This is easy under Linux if you can find the right certs, a huge PITA if you're on IIS.
They do an incredibly poor job of documenting this or informing their support on how to address it.
I'll never be sure if this is true, but it will be in my memory... User robinalden is the CTO, who I tweeted ~2h before the response was posted (https://twitter.com/viraptor/status/746138644537237504). Given that he only posted 13 times on those forums, I hope I actually caused him to ask Melih what he's doing :)
We have confirmed that Comodo submitted Requests for Express Abandonment for all three trademark registration applications in question. We’re happy to see this positive step towards resolution, and will continue to monitor the requests as they make their way through the system.
We’d like to thank our community for their support."
Alas, it's too late to save the business they lost forever from my company and others who switched our business to another provider literally yesterday. Thanks Comodo, for letting us know you are not a company we wish to do business with.
Beside abusing the legal system, there is something else called right and wrong by common sense. A CEO does not get that really should try a different job.
This happened on the other link to their message board, and it doesn't surprise me - the CEO has plopped himself in the middle of a very charged issue, making it difficult to discuss the issue without it getting personal. HN is great, due in large part to the moderators knowing what they're doing, but a little more transparency on flagging would be nice (like @dang's unlink and retitle messages). This sort of thing is only going to become more important as information manipulation in old media becomes less effective on people who form their opinions in places like this.
OK, I won't change my nick to ComodoPhacker this time as I planned to.
Does anyone know a good free alternative to their Comodo Internet Security product? I know there are plenty of free AV products, but I also use its firewall and HIPS features, especially detailed logging.
AdmiralAsshat|9 years ago
https://forums.comodo.com/general-discussion-off-topic-anyth...
dimdimdim|9 years ago
orf|9 years ago
fapjacks|9 years ago
paulftw|9 years ago
To me this sounds quite similar to the ownership of the rectangle with rounded corners (I am actually not sure whose side I'm on in either dispute).
ars|9 years ago
Most CEO's hide behind the PR department, or speak only one-way, without replies.
jordigh|9 years ago
spyder|9 years ago
Looks like it works. :D
kordless|9 years ago
I can't even imagine what he was thinking when he was saying this. Well, I can imagine dissonance, but not on the level from where this comes. It's literally insane, given it's business, and software business at that.
nneonneo|9 years ago
> With LE now being an operational business, we were never going to take the these trademark applications any further. Josh posted a link to the application and as of February 8th it was already in a state where it will lapse.
> Josh was wrong when he said we’d “refused to abandon our applications”. We just hadn’t told LE we would leave them to lapse.
> We have now communicated this to LE.
On LE's blog post, they mention that they have repeatedly asked Comodo to abandon the applications since March 2016. If Comodo was going to let the applications lapse as they claim, why not communicate this at the earliest opportunity?
To me this is a dodgy answer at best. I am not so familiar with trademark law, but I don't believe that an application "being in a state where it will lapse" is in any way disarmed - it is my impression that Comodo could simply have opted to continue the process, but is pretending that they wouldn't have in order to avoid bad press.
MaulingMonkey|9 years ago
Poor internal communication between the people talking with Comodo and the decisionmakers? Not wanting to give the time of day to the competition, lest they avoiding wasting their time and resources? Deferring committing to the decision until the last moment, in case they change their mind? I can buy it.
> it is my impression that Comodo could simply have opted to continue the process, but is pretending that they wouldn't have in order to avoid bad press.
Based on my (non-lawyer) understanding, a trademark application sounds very much like "not a trademark", and an application that Comodo would eventually lose thanks to clear and conflicting objections from the people actually using the term. I don't think they could've continued indefinitely. I think they would have eventually dropped the process, if only through inaction by allowing the application to expire. I can buy that they were at the point where they were planning internally to drop the process.
Not out of any noble reasons, mind you - they'd have dropped it earlier, I think, if those were the cause. Filing in the first place may have been an act of bad faith. It's just not in Comodo's best interests to not fight a loosing battle to the point that it looses them the war, so to speak. Although it might be a bit late for that.
hosh|9 years ago
Further, the last time I read through things about trademarks, my understanding is that they don't work the way some of the people posting say it does. Trademarks are influenced by whether it is a distinguishing mark or not. You can lose trademark protection if it comes into common use. Once registered, you have to keep defending it as a distinguishing mark. So I'm not sure where the "paralegal" in that forum thread is coming up with the argument that it somehow works like a "first-to-file" -- the person who possesses the paperwork possesses the right.
Maybe my understanding is incorrect. If it isn't off though, I can see their lawyers saying, Comodo really doesn't have much of a case (but it'd still eat up a lot of time and resources a small non-profit won't have).
AdamGibbins|9 years ago
ShakataGaNai|9 years ago
Translation: Thank you LE team for sending the seething rage of internet masses after us. We surrender.
ovt|9 years ago
josephb|9 years ago
techload|9 years ago
davidgerard|9 years ago
The 90 day expiry is a bit of a faff, but we've mostly automated it using acme.sh and automated DNS edits, and now we just need load balancer access (we just moved to new hosts). LE is a godsend and fully up to commercial use in our experience.
After this, there is no way on earth we're giving Comodo money again. I would rather pay Thawte than these bozos.
technion|9 years ago
Comodo certs have two possible chains. If you want to be supported by older Android (and older iOS) devices, you needed to configure your server to hand out the longer of the chains. When you buy a cert, this is not the chain they will recommend.
This is easy under Linux if you can find the right certs, a huge PITA if you're on IIS.
They do an incredibly poor job of documenting this or informing their support on how to address it.
viraptor|9 years ago
dsr12|9 years ago
"Update, June 24 2016
We have confirmed that Comodo submitted Requests for Express Abandonment for all three trademark registration applications in question. We’re happy to see this positive step towards resolution, and will continue to monitor the requests as they make their way through the system.
We’d like to thank our community for their support."
skywhopper|9 years ago
ocdtrekkie|9 years ago
nacs|9 years ago
People immediately realized how much of a terrible company Comodo is and the negative feedback had to have poured in.
criddell|9 years ago
ausjke|9 years ago
Beside abusing the legal system, there is something else called right and wrong by common sense. A CEO does not get that really should try a different job.
jtokoph|9 years ago
oolongCat|9 years ago
technion|9 years ago
Melih's arguing on that thread has reached the level of trollbait.
diegorbaquero|9 years ago
tommoor|9 years ago
tetrep|9 years ago
woodman|9 years ago
admksx45v65uqpw|9 years ago
pmontra|9 years ago
unknown|9 years ago
[deleted]
stanislavb|9 years ago
nojvek|9 years ago
56k|9 years ago
They clearly wanted to put them out of business because they see them as a competitor!
ComodoHacker|9 years ago
Does anyone know a good free alternative to their Comodo Internet Security product? I know there are plenty of free AV products, but I also use its firewall and HIPS features, especially detailed logging.