Facebook can't sell itself as a new live media platform and then just remove videos that are politically disturbing.
As an aside, this is the 559th person killed by police in the United States this year. His name was Philando Castile. They were pulled over for a broken tail light. He was shot with a 4 year old child in the backseat of the car.
(you can find the video on youtube, twitter, and elsewhere, but be forewarned, it is disturbing)
I forgot where I read it but in some states there is a higher chance of getting killed by cops than by a criminal gang. Certainly higher risk than terrorism, it seems.
After reading a few comments on how to behave when police stops you and how to tell them you're carrying gun I can't shake the feeling that this country is trapped in some sort of a deadly staring contest, if you blink you can die. You have armed people trying to police a nation where everyone can have a gun, and many do. With this sort of tension on a daily basis things will go wrong, someone will make a mistake, which seems to be what is happening every week. And then people see the news, get scared and buy more guns, because they feel in danger, and later you read more comments on how they should calmly explain that they had a gun when police stopped them.
America has some institutional and cultural problems that no other developed, westernized democracy has, at least in terms of the extent of the problems. One of these is policing.
What happens in these cases is taxpayers will need to pay for a settlement. The officers, and their departments, are often not held seriously accountable. In the recent shooting of Alton Sterling that just happened, the officer's body cameras "fell off." Oh, oops. Why is that acceptable? Compare this to other professions: A surgeon makes a mistake during a procedure, the response is not "oops." It is: you will lose your life savings, even potentially their medical license. Police should be the most transparent of organizations, and the most scrutinized, not immune to it. What happened to protect and serve?
> A surgeon makes a mistake during a procedure, the response is not "oops." It is: you will lose your life savings, even potentially their medical license.
Medical errors are a significant cause of death. If the responsible clinician involved lost their life savings every time someone died after a mistake the US wouldn't have any doctors.
It also sounds like a lousy way to prevent medical error or to learn from mistakes.
Did you mean "mistake", or did you mean something like reckless negligence?
Not making any judgments or assumptions about what happened in this case, but there are better and worse ways of informing a police officer that you're carrying.
To start, not all states obligate concealed carry permit holders to inform police that they are carrying. However, if you're pulled over, and you do want to inform the officer, keep your hands on the wheel and calmly tell the officer that you have a permit to carry concealed. Tell them that you are currently doing so -- again, without having moved your hands. Ask them how they would like you to proceed.
You will probably be asked where the firearm is located. They might ask you to step out of the car so they can temporarily relieve you of your weapon. They might just say something like "don't reach for yours, and I won't reach for mine." Bottom line: let the officer guide you, and keep your movements slow and deliberate.
DON'T say the words "gun" or "weapon" or anything like that. Those are keywords that can trigger an instinctive reaction in the officer, and they might not be able to hear anything else you say thanks to a rush of adrenaline.
Interestingly, Minnesota is not a state where CCW holders are obligated to disclose their permit or weapon to peace officers.
Yesterday a man was killed by an officer in Louisiana. Headline: "Man shot by BRPD multiple times to chest and back; two officers placed on leave".
How the heck is "leave" a punishment worthy of homicide? And why are these videos always recorded by witnesses rather than body cameras on the police?
If we want to stop this from happening then change the officer's punishment to be a prison sentence, strap a camera on every police officer, make the footage available to the public, and fire people when the camera "falls off" or is "obstructed".
They are placed on leave because, even for Cops, we afford them the presumption of innocence. They are on leave while the investigation proceeds. I'm noting this exogenous to the video evidence that's in the public record now, and that I still believe that leave is appropriate while an investigation proceeds. Otherwise what we have is mob rule. I'm by no means defending the conduct of the officers that we've seen in these videos, but rule of law matters here. Even for Cops.
Why can't we just take guns away from police officers. It would improve the safety of minorities, and also likely help reduce the attitude problems many officers have.
Although personally, it struck me as very strange that someone who's just witnessed her partner being shot (and who is currently in some need of medical treatment) that her reaction is to reach for her phone and the live streaming feature of an app. I certainly think that falls under "evidence of an interesting new phenomenon".
Edit: I don't mean "strange" in any kind of moral judgement. My heart goes out to this woman and her child who had to witness this and who've lost someone close to them. I mean strange in the sense that this isn't how I would expect someone to react.
Police brutality has been a serious problem in the US for decades, and it seems that putting a streaming video camera in everyone's pocket might help shift the narrative back in the people's favor.
It is possible that it is a victim of the HN ranking algorithm, which I believe discriminates against posts that acquire a lot of comments relative to age/votes as a way to avoid "controversial" posts.
As someone who carries on a regular basis, the #1 rule when dealing with the police is compliance.
Yes sir, no sir, the weapon is on my hip, my hands are on the steering wheel and you don't move unless told to do so. A cop is always on edge during a traffic stop but even more so after you tell them you have a weapon. Quick movements after you tell them you are armed is not going to end well.
Obviously we don't know the whole story here as the video starts after the shooting, but hopefully there is body cam footage to clear everything up.
Oh, I think since cell phone cameras became ubiquitous we know enough stories to know the whole story, even if we haven't seen the exact details of this particular case yet.
i am so saddened by the loss of life and i am so amazed by lavish and her girl
they are both affectingly strong
my best attempt at keeping my composure as well as them:
are officers trained to withhold giving medical aide?
i've seen this a lot in police videos, especially where a death is involved
why is this officer continuing to point a gun at a dying person?
was the officer preparing to shoot either the person bravely live broadcasting the situation in defiance of the gun, or the child in the backseat, if one tried to apply pressure to the wound or offer water to the victim?
The disturbing thing for me is the cop seemed more concerned with keeping his gun out and barking orders than in administering any sort of aid. It seems the God complex is strong in this one that he can't even render aid to a dying human being but instead belittles him "I told you not to move" as if that excuses all of this. That lack of compassion is so disturbing.
I'm not a cop, I don't know why it is more important to point a gun at a dying man than render aid, but that's just one of the many thoughts this video evoked for me. So sad. I'm sure there's much more to this story to come.
Edit: if you are going to down vote please explain why. The cop is literally watching the man die right in front of him.
The officer was indoctrinated to behave this way, to exhibit forceful authority, and is clearly heard to be battling his personal instinct that he fucked this one up, and doesn't have a single clue what to do because his conscience says one thing and his training says another and he is too young to have developed the detachment from self that older officers and soldiers do. I took his "you should've kept your hands up" as a tortured mind desperately trying to save itself from crushing guilt over having snuffed out the life of an innocent man.
I'm not condoning or condemning the behavior of the officer. Nor am I trying to garner sympathy for him. The fact is a man was fatally shot, and he didn't have to be, and we do not know who ... really who ... is to blame. It's natural to rush to judgment and a sense of vigilante justice, to reconcile the debt owed to the community and to society at large. But this sort of thing is a symptom of something much bigger than a slogan or a talking point. Honestly, I'm struggling with figuring out what can we, as technologists, do to make this country less panicky and prejudiced, without being dismissed by the people we would seek to help.
There is a lot that we don't and can't understand about the way the officer was thinking. Only that he was panicked and relatively young, and perhaps that shines a light on a part of the story we don't talk about enough: who SHOULD be policing the streets? What is done to ensure their psychological health and mental capacity to exhibit calm decisiveness in the face of so many potentially fatal unknowns?
Incidentally, that town isn't an area where cops often use their firearms. White-on-black (or, it seems in this case, Asian-on-black) violence from law enforcement isn't endemic to that part of the country.
Sorry I'm rambling. I'm really saddened by this story. Nothing about it should've gone down the way it did.
Posting this again as I replied to another user above:
The officer isn't an EMT and if he was really shot 4 times in the abdomen then nothing the officer has would stop the bleeding. Not only that but if the guy really did react in a threatening manner the officer is providing cover to make sure the gun doesn't come back out.
I'm not advocating one side or the other on this, just letting you know how the protocols work.
[+] [-] llamataboot|9 years ago|reply
As an aside, this is the 559th person killed by police in the United States this year. His name was Philando Castile. They were pulled over for a broken tail light. He was shot with a 4 year old child in the backseat of the car.
(you can find the video on youtube, twitter, and elsewhere, but be forewarned, it is disturbing)
[+] [-] rdtsc|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] icebraining|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joshschreuder|9 years ago|reply
I'm not game to click it to see if the video actually loads as I actively avoid disturbing content.
[+] [-] a13n|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] prymitive|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hackernewsuck|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ryanmarsh|9 years ago|reply
Pretty grim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wuyXayGMB8
[+] [-] wallace_f|9 years ago|reply
What happens in these cases is taxpayers will need to pay for a settlement. The officers, and their departments, are often not held seriously accountable. In the recent shooting of Alton Sterling that just happened, the officer's body cameras "fell off." Oh, oops. Why is that acceptable? Compare this to other professions: A surgeon makes a mistake during a procedure, the response is not "oops." It is: you will lose your life savings, even potentially their medical license. Police should be the most transparent of organizations, and the most scrutinized, not immune to it. What happened to protect and serve?
[+] [-] DanBC|9 years ago|reply
Medical errors are a significant cause of death. If the responsible clinician involved lost their life savings every time someone died after a mistake the US wouldn't have any doctors.
It also sounds like a lousy way to prevent medical error or to learn from mistakes.
Did you mean "mistake", or did you mean something like reckless negligence?
[+] [-] icebraining|9 years ago|reply
Really? Don't they have insurance for that?
[+] [-] matt_wulfeck|9 years ago|reply
Apparently owning a gun and letting the police know of that fact is enough to get you killed. Good luck sorting things out.
[+] [-] teuobk|9 years ago|reply
To start, not all states obligate concealed carry permit holders to inform police that they are carrying. However, if you're pulled over, and you do want to inform the officer, keep your hands on the wheel and calmly tell the officer that you have a permit to carry concealed. Tell them that you are currently doing so -- again, without having moved your hands. Ask them how they would like you to proceed.
You will probably be asked where the firearm is located. They might ask you to step out of the car so they can temporarily relieve you of your weapon. They might just say something like "don't reach for yours, and I won't reach for mine." Bottom line: let the officer guide you, and keep your movements slow and deliberate.
DON'T say the words "gun" or "weapon" or anything like that. Those are keywords that can trigger an instinctive reaction in the officer, and they might not be able to hear anything else you say thanks to a rush of adrenaline.
Interestingly, Minnesota is not a state where CCW holders are obligated to disclose their permit or weapon to peace officers.
[+] [-] nojvek|9 years ago|reply
Deaths from gun suicides > deaths from cops killing civilians > terrorists killing civilians.
Yes the problem is definitely mexicans crossing the border and Muslims in the country /s
[+] [-] a13n|9 years ago|reply
How the heck is "leave" a punishment worthy of homicide? And why are these videos always recorded by witnesses rather than body cameras on the police?
If we want to stop this from happening then change the officer's punishment to be a prison sentence, strap a camera on every police officer, make the footage available to the public, and fire people when the camera "falls off" or is "obstructed".
[+] [-] remarkEon|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grandalf|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] saynsedit|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aethr|9 years ago|reply
Although personally, it struck me as very strange that someone who's just witnessed her partner being shot (and who is currently in some need of medical treatment) that her reaction is to reach for her phone and the live streaming feature of an app. I certainly think that falls under "evidence of an interesting new phenomenon".
Edit: I don't mean "strange" in any kind of moral judgement. My heart goes out to this woman and her child who had to witness this and who've lost someone close to them. I mean strange in the sense that this isn't how I would expect someone to react.
Police brutality has been a serious problem in the US for decades, and it seems that putting a streaming video camera in everyone's pocket might help shift the narrative back in the people's favor.
[+] [-] pyrophane|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mirimir|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomschlick|9 years ago|reply
Yes sir, no sir, the weapon is on my hip, my hands are on the steering wheel and you don't move unless told to do so. A cop is always on edge during a traffic stop but even more so after you tell them you have a weapon. Quick movements after you tell them you are armed is not going to end well.
Obviously we don't know the whole story here as the video starts after the shooting, but hopefully there is body cam footage to clear everything up.
[+] [-] llamataboot|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joshkpeterson|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] justifier|9 years ago|reply
i am so saddened by the loss of life and i am so amazed by lavish and her girl
they are both affectingly strong
my best attempt at keeping my composure as well as them:
are officers trained to withhold giving medical aide?
i've seen this a lot in police videos, especially where a death is involved
why is this officer continuing to point a gun at a dying person?
was the officer preparing to shoot either the person bravely live broadcasting the situation in defiance of the gun, or the child in the backseat, if one tried to apply pressure to the wound or offer water to the victim?
[+] [-] mirimir|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrlambchop|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DanBC|9 years ago|reply
"it's okay, I'm right here with you" most heart breaking words from a 4 year old.
[+] [-] Animats|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nicolashahn|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wckronholm|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Animats|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] richsinn|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] a13n|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hermannj314|9 years ago|reply
I'm not a cop, I don't know why it is more important to point a gun at a dying man than render aid, but that's just one of the many thoughts this video evoked for me. So sad. I'm sure there's much more to this story to come.
Edit: if you are going to down vote please explain why. The cop is literally watching the man die right in front of him.
[+] [-] spdustin|9 years ago|reply
I'm not condoning or condemning the behavior of the officer. Nor am I trying to garner sympathy for him. The fact is a man was fatally shot, and he didn't have to be, and we do not know who ... really who ... is to blame. It's natural to rush to judgment and a sense of vigilante justice, to reconcile the debt owed to the community and to society at large. But this sort of thing is a symptom of something much bigger than a slogan or a talking point. Honestly, I'm struggling with figuring out what can we, as technologists, do to make this country less panicky and prejudiced, without being dismissed by the people we would seek to help.
There is a lot that we don't and can't understand about the way the officer was thinking. Only that he was panicked and relatively young, and perhaps that shines a light on a part of the story we don't talk about enough: who SHOULD be policing the streets? What is done to ensure their psychological health and mental capacity to exhibit calm decisiveness in the face of so many potentially fatal unknowns?
Incidentally, that town isn't an area where cops often use their firearms. White-on-black (or, it seems in this case, Asian-on-black) violence from law enforcement isn't endemic to that part of the country.
Sorry I'm rambling. I'm really saddened by this story. Nothing about it should've gone down the way it did.
[+] [-] grandalf|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomschlick|9 years ago|reply
The officer isn't an EMT and if he was really shot 4 times in the abdomen then nothing the officer has would stop the bleeding. Not only that but if the guy really did react in a threatening manner the officer is providing cover to make sure the gun doesn't come back out.
I'm not advocating one side or the other on this, just letting you know how the protocols work.
[+] [-] beedogs|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DarkTree|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thesimpsons1022|9 years ago|reply