Dart is awesome. Just because currently the community is still small doesn't mean much.
Google is working on so much great stuff that Dart becomes more compelling every month. They are lying low since awhile with public announcements, but if you follow the commits there is so much work being done.
In a few months it will become hard to ignore Dart.
The combined development (TS+Dart) was slowing Angular development down and contribution was painful because one needed knowledge of both languages.
There are notable downsides for the split development but I fully understand the decision. Implementing everything in a way that it can be translated into the other language was a real pain and limited both versions to a common denominator which prevented both versions to benefit from the advantages of their respective language.
> Dart is awesome. Just because currently the community is still small doesn't mean much.
Well, it does mean something. Go is evidence that languages can gain momentum very fast so the fact that Dart still hasn't should be a bit of a concern (and probably partially caused by Typescript's popularity).
I'm working on a project in Dart. It just works, and it feels simple, and the type system means I can think more cleanly about my code. I like it, and this news is great!
A Dart-like language designed with WASM as target will make sense now but I think Dart(as it is now)is already doomed to die. The performance promissed is just not there.
* wait, is dart still a thing?
* this can't be good for angulardart.
Basically they're splitting the project into two projects, claiming that both sides will benefit from lots of support. I suppose if the typescript half of angular was held back by any needs to cross-compile into dart, then the typescript half will be losing shackles.
I honestly don't see how a low-penetration language is going to benefit much here - are we going to see a resurgence of interest in dartlang just because now there's a more native-feeling angular library for it? I've been wrong in the past, I guess.
"If you're a TypeScript or JavaScript developer, you'll also benefit from cleaner JavaScript APIs and performance gains as we simplify the TypeScript codebase to remove the need for compilation to Dart."
Maybe this split was prompted by the imminent release of Typescript 2.0?
Many Google teams are using it so it will be maintained regardless. The team maintaining it doesn't really depend on outside enthusiasm (though it would certainly be nice).
What a train-wreck. So now AngularDart has it's own dedicated team? Angular is already swimming upstream having lost its position to React and it's respect within Google to Polymer. That they are going to be supported 2 separate language versions of the same giant framework is kind of hilarious.
Calling it a train wreck is massive hyperbole. Just because React is so popular on hacker news or in the SF bubble does not mean it is anywhere near a de facto superior choice. Using such hyperbole detracts from the conversation and misleads young developers who may not yet know how to accurately weigh software stack decisions for personal or professional projects.
And this is coming from someone who was really excited for 2.x (and TS for that matter) but has resigned to probably staying with 1.x and es5/6 for the foreseeable future.
Not just hyperbole, as others have suggested, but most of what you're saying is flat false. Google's (and maybe the world's) most profitable app, AdWords, is built on Angular 2 and Dart, as is their entire internal CMS. Inside and outside of Google, Angular 2's adoption numbers are extremely impressive for a beta framework.
Yeah, this is really bizarre. It was confusing enough that Angular 1 and Angular 2 are completely different. Now there are two completely different versions of Angular 2 with potentially different support cycles (and different bugs).
The community is quite active, I think. Most chatting is happening on Slack. Lots of articles/tutorials pop up on Dart Academy (https://dart.academy). For Slack details and other means of hanging with the community, check out the Community Page (https://www.dartlang.org/community).
https://www.dartlang.org/community most discussions are on Slack. It's a bit unfortunate because one needs to register but it seems to be the platform most Dartisans are comfortable with.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi
Frankly, all these arguments are by people who never tried Dart in the first place. Dart is perfect for large scale applications - especially enterprise ones.
I tried both TS and Dart and Dart has just way better developer exp. especially when using IntelliJ and doing lot of small apps which have to be mantained.
I only have experience with Typescript, almost none with Dart, and I would love to see a comparison of the two in practical use, especially with Intellij.
The big difference between Dart and TypeScript is that Dart has a standard library for DOM.
But I'm not sure how that's different than .d.ts files for DOM that TypeScript has in its core. After all DOM code is translated to JS code 1:1. Maybe Dart does more magic?
TypeScript is evolving towards the same language and tooling goals as Dart has already achieved. I have worked with both, and I find TypeScript tooling to be years behind Dart (event with recent improvements of type inference and e.g. VS's intellisense).
The main reason TypeScript got more adoption was the fact that it was built on top of JavaScript, and people could easily start mix-and-match with their JS code. While that is great for easier adoption, it may not protect your engineers on the same level as Dart does.
Dart has more polyfill stuff built-in. This is IMHO a big advantage when I see all the related StackOverflow Angular2 TS questions. A downside is that it is sometimes a bit more cumbersome to work around if something is not fully polyfilled by Dart and you have to work around "manually".
Dart doesn't suck. Dart is different and developing in a way that meets both language needs is a pain in many situations.
If you say Dart sucks you also have to admit that TS sucks. They just suck at different things. There are no upsides without downsides. It's just about what upsides and downsides you are more comfortable to live with.
To me Angular2 is not really worth it. The magic was on Angular-1. It did good but now Polymer and React have the mojo each for different reasons. Unfortunately the web development is still a big mess even on new projects with supoort for latest browsers only.
> Dart was designed "batteries included" – it’s not just a programming language, but also a set of stable libraries, solid tools, a great framework — and soon, a repository of battle-tested UI widgets.
Clicked on solid tools link.
Got 404: Page not found.
[+] [-] zoechi|9 years ago|reply
The combined development (TS+Dart) was slowing Angular development down and contribution was painful because one needed knowledge of both languages. There are notable downsides for the split development but I fully understand the decision. Implementing everything in a way that it can be translated into the other language was a real pain and limited both versions to a common denominator which prevented both versions to benefit from the advantages of their respective language.
[+] [-] kmiroslav|9 years ago|reply
Well, it does mean something. Go is evidence that languages can gain momentum very fast so the fact that Dart still hasn't should be a bit of a concern (and probably partially caused by Typescript's popularity).
[+] [-] chm|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] themihai|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pfooti|9 years ago|reply
I honestly don't see how a low-penetration language is going to benefit much here - are we going to see a resurgence of interest in dartlang just because now there's a more native-feeling angular library for it? I've been wrong in the past, I guess.
[+] [-] wstrange|9 years ago|reply
It is hard to predict the future, but I do think this is a very positive move for Dart that will drive adoption.
Dart frameworks were always playing second fiddle to the needs of Javascript developers - resulting in compromises.
A Dart first framework (with some awesome Material widgets thrown in) will offer a compelling developer experience.
Combine that with Dart on Mobile (flutter.io), Dart on IoT (dartino.io) and Dart on the server, and you have a very nice story.
[+] [-] blendo|9 years ago|reply
"If you're a TypeScript or JavaScript developer, you'll also benefit from cleaner JavaScript APIs and performance gains as we simplify the TypeScript codebase to remove the need for compilation to Dart."
Maybe this split was prompted by the imminent release of Typescript 2.0?
[+] [-] skybrian|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Touche|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ben_jones|9 years ago|reply
And this is coming from someone who was really excited for 2.x (and TS for that matter) but has resigned to probably staying with 1.x and es5/6 for the foreseeable future.
[+] [-] monyr75|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _ea1k|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] juandazapata|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] oceankid|9 years ago|reply
I really want to use it and wish the community/IRC was slightly more active.
[+] [-] monyr75|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wstrange|9 years ago|reply
https://dartlang.slack.com
[+] [-] zoechi|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] themihai|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rvijapurapu|9 years ago|reply
Frankly, all these arguments are by people who never tried Dart in the first place. Dart is perfect for large scale applications - especially enterprise ones.
[+] [-] carterehsmith|9 years ago|reply
- Carl Sagan
[+] [-] tkubacki|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] carterehsmith|9 years ago|reply
I only have experience with Typescript, almost none with Dart, and I would love to see a comparison of the two in practical use, especially with Intellij.
[+] [-] msoad|9 years ago|reply
But I'm not sure how that's different than .d.ts files for DOM that TypeScript has in its core. After all DOM code is translated to JS code 1:1. Maybe Dart does more magic?
[+] [-] isoos|9 years ago|reply
The main reason TypeScript got more adoption was the fact that it was built on top of JavaScript, and people could easily start mix-and-match with their JS code. While that is great for easier adoption, it may not protect your engineers on the same level as Dart does.
[+] [-] zoechi|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Bahamut|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zoechi|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lacker|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] themihai|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] insulanian|9 years ago|reply
Clicked on solid tools link. Got 404: Page not found.
Not a solid start.
[+] [-] andrewclunn|9 years ago|reply