top | item 12296344

Windows 7, 8.1 moving to Windows 10’s cumulative update model

31 points| rbx | 9 years ago |arstechnica.com | reply

56 comments

order
[+] auganov|9 years ago|reply
Sounds reasonable. But can't they keep them seamless? (silent) The other day I woke up, and out of nowhere I got the Anniversary Update (must have triggered during my sleep).

Desktop style messed up, taskbar messed up (IE and something else magically decide to come back), a few things added to startup, some new windows 10 Skype app trying to log me in without even asking (really?? and it basically "stole" the credentials from the regular app?? quickly uninstalled it), SkyDrive pops up and tries to do stuff, VirtualBox broken for some reason - had to reinstall, a few file associations reverted to defaults, and most funnily no obvious new features.

It's like someone searching through your house leaving a big mess behind without a decent excuse.

[+] nikbackm|9 years ago|reply
The Anniversary Update (and previous Windows 10 edition updates as well) is basically a re-installation of the whole operating system with the settings from the old installation migrated to the new one.

This migration is not quite seamless, always a few options/settings that have to be re-done manually for me.

But that has nothing to do with this new cumulative security update model, it's not a full re-installation.

[+] digi_owl|9 years ago|reply
> and out of nowhere I got the Anniversary Update (must have triggered during my sleep).

I have noticed that thanks to UEFI (or something related to it) my laptop can no start doing things in the middle of the night even if i put it very firmly to sleep earlier.

[+] CommanderData|9 years ago|reply
This is the biggest reason I stuck to Win 7. Windows update process is an abomination and can't understand how its allowed. Two of my other systems booted up and took 30 minutes for updates to install before logging me in. One is a PC stick and other is a desktop. Unacceptable waste of my time. I should be able to choose which updates.
[+] tempVariable|9 years ago|reply
Yup. I made the jump reluctantly after running Windows 7 Pro workstation for years without issues. I did the upgrade to version 10 and have since had to recover or completely rebuild the install 3 times in 6 months. Each time after an update

Each time that Windows update comes in and forces me to update and shut down is a day I dread. This hardware worked so well under Windows 7 and causes headaches under Windows 10.

[+] joering2|9 years ago|reply
Can you or someone suggest what to do after new laptops won't accept Windows 7 anymore?

At this point with new lap I just buy Windows 7 and Office 2010 and with limited updates first then turned off I'm a happy camper and hadn't had issue, virus or malware since 2007.

I tried Mac few times but for someone who loves Total Commander, I was totally lost :(

Will any Linux with decent GUI do it?

[+] Severian|9 years ago|reply
I don't know what MS did to the update system in the last year, but every time my system goes to check updates, it runs at 100% on one CPU for hours. Usually after waking it from sleep or a cold boot.

I've run the "Problem Fixer" utility for Windows Update, deleted the update cache, and all the other recommendations with no success. I end up killing the wuauserv service to free up that CPU.

It used to work 100% fine until the Windows 10 nag/forced upgrade debacle started being pushed out.

[+] retox|9 years ago|reply
Same here, only in my task manager its listed as a service host process which is pegging one core at 100%. I didn't understand what it was for months until I must have let it finish because I wasn't doing anything CPU intensive and I got a Windows Update message. Funny thing is that after I clicked to see what updates were available, it had to do the whole process again!

This is the last version of Windows I will run.

[+] barrkel|9 years ago|reply
On my laptops, I usually run "net stop wuauserv" in a loop with a small sleep. If you're not actively choosing to update that day, it will kill battery life, heat up the machine and keep fan whirring for hours.

When I actually want to update, I start the update widget manually. Still takes many hours to update, but it's elective and can be run overnight on mains.

[+] wiredfool|9 years ago|reply
That generally matches what I'm seeing, except that my laptop dies after 10 minutes of it.
[+] tdkl|9 years ago|reply
This will cause happy times when a single update in the bundle starts causing problems and render your system in non-working state.

Good that MS never shipped a crappy update like that. /s

Another big "fuck you" and taking away control over own machines.

[+] GrumpyYoungMan|9 years ago|reply
>Another big "fuck you" and taking away control over own machines.

Considering how poorly the average end user maintains their machines and the sheer quantity of malware out there, taking away control over their own machines is the kindest thing MS can do.

[+] digi_owl|9 years ago|reply
Had something close to that the other day. Windows was trying to update my GPU driver, failing, and causing a automated recovery. "Fun" times.
[+] krylon|9 years ago|reply
As a sysadmin at almost-Windows-only company, I am still kind of surprised at the state of updates on Windows.

On Debian, CentOS, or FreeBSD, server and desktop, I usually install all and any updates that are available, reboot if there is an update to the kernel (or libc) and move on.

The fact that there is even a need for "patch management" beyond "just ing deploy them already" is ... embarrassing for Microsoft, IMHO. But simply installing any and all updates that Microsoft publishes has shown to be a bad idea. So I really hope that at least using a WSUS will allow me to pick what updates get installed.

[+] walterbell|9 years ago|reply
> Microsoft will also create security-only updates that include all the security fixes released each month, without any reliability or feature changes. These updates won't be cumulative. They will only be offered via WSUS and SCCM; WU users won't see them.

Can anyone use WSUS and SCCM, or are these licensed separately, e.g. with Windows Server?

Could the US FTC require that security updates be delivered separately as a condition of sale, i.e. cannot be bundled with non-security updates? They are already studying mobile device security updates, https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2016/05/ftc-s...:

"In order to gain a better understanding of security in the mobile ecosystem, the Federal Trade Commission has issued orders to eight mobile device manufacturers requiring them to provide the agency with information about how they issue security updates to address vulnerabilities in smartphones, tablets, and other mobile devices. The eight companies receiving orders from the FTC are: Apple, Inc.; Blackberry Corp.; Google, Inc.; HTC America, Inc.; LG Electronics USA, Inc.; Microsoft Corp.; Motorola Mobility, LLC; and Samsung Electronics America, Inc."

[+] asherkin|9 years ago|reply
Both require running on Windows Server, WSUS is "free", SCCM is "very expensive".
[+] wiredfool|9 years ago|reply
It looks like this change happened around April/May 2016.

Which coincidentally is when my infrequently booted windows install started crashing in the middle of windows update. (Update enabled, 10 min uptime. Update disabled, Days, with sleep/hibernate/wake cycles)

[+] wiredfool|9 years ago|reply
(I'd suspect hardware, but the linux install that's normally running has its uptime only limited by rebooting for kernel updates)
[+] wfunction|9 years ago|reply
Is this so that they can bundle the Windows 10 nagware into the bugfixes?
[+] creshal|9 years ago|reply
They already did that a few months back, one critical IE security also reset the "disable GWX" registry keys.
[+] PaulKeeble|9 years ago|reply
Windows 7/8.1 users are not going to be happy, its one of the reasons they are sticking with the older OS.
[+] btb|9 years ago|reply
I just hope its not part of some plan to sneak in windows 10-style spyware onto older windows versions, by bundling it up with important security updates one pretty much have to install. At least the windows 10 upgrade we could say no to.
[+] msravi|9 years ago|reply
From the article:

> This means that the ability to pick and choose individual fixes to apply will be removed; they'll be distributed and deployed as a singular all-or-nothing proposition.

So, if this "update" contains the Windows 10 nagware or all that fancy new "telemetry" that I definitely do not want, I don't have an option...

I currently run Windows 7 on a VM on OS X, using it only to (a) digitally sign documents since the hardware key that is provided only works on Windows, and (b) do my annual IT returns with an Excel utility that again, only runs on Windows. Looks like (b) is no longer an issue - there's now a Java utility that does the same thing. Now if only I had a way out of (a), I'd get rid of Win altogether.

[+] bsilvereagle|9 years ago|reply
It's not clear from the article, but will we be able to cherry-pick and uninstall updates we don't want? Does the roll-up show as one update in Windows Update or can we cherry-pick and uninstall anti-feature updates and leave the security updates?
[+] laurent123456|9 years ago|reply
Apparently not:

> This means that the ability to pick and choose individual fixes to apply will be removed; they'll be distributed and deployed as a singular all-or-nothing proposition.

[+] executesorder66|9 years ago|reply
A great way to very slowly upgrade everyone to Windows 10.
[+] Silhouette|9 years ago|reply
Not really. We've already been installing only security updates, in light of the instability problems and silliness like the GWX campaign. It looks like this might be the point at which we consider installing Windows 7 updates to be a higher risk than not updating at all and just switch the whole thing off.

My concern is whether they will stop shipping the separate security updates that have already been released, which are useful for patching a new system on first boot.

[+] AndrewDucker|9 years ago|reply
So much better than the current system. Frankly, it should be able to bring system files to a desired state, rather than installing numerous updates.
[+] mms1973|9 years ago|reply
The last W10 update broke my Wifi. So buyer beware...
[+] newjersey|9 years ago|reply
Hi, can you please give more details? What computer was this? What broke? And if you fixed it, how did you fix it? Thank you.