top | item 12396331

The Dropbox hack is real

1313 points| joshschreuder | 9 years ago |troyhunt.com

539 comments

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[+] oxplot|9 years ago|reply
Make sure you sign yourself up for something like https://haveibeenpwned.com if you haven't already. Sometimes being timely in responding to leaks can make a big difference on any further leaks.
[+] netule|9 years ago|reply
This was a strange way to find out that I have a Tumblr account.
[+] thieving_magpie|9 years ago|reply
Also note the guy that runs it is the one that wrote this article.
[+] rajathagasthya|9 years ago|reply
Wow, thanks for this. I just found out that my email address was breached 3 times, while only one company sent an email informing me of the breach.
[+] hatsix|9 years ago|reply
Also, LastPass uses a similar site, plus it's specific knowledge of your passwords (last time it was changed), to let you know if a password has been compromised.

Not sure if 1Password does as well, but it seems like a fairly obvious feature to add.

[+] shostack|9 years ago|reply
Can't upvote hard enough. Also, it is shocking how bad security is for all these games I've played over the years. The publishers seem to be the source of the vast majority of these leaks I've been caught in.

Thankfully the notification emails from this service are prompt and helpful (not to mention totally free).

[+] garaetjjte|9 years ago|reply
I think it should hash entered email client-side in JS to be more trustworthy. I am a bit worried about giving my various email addresses to some random site.
[+] thwarted|9 years ago|reply
I'm not sure how much I can trust the results of a site that claims an email address I only use for one site has been breached on sites and services I've never been to. However it's calculating if what you enter into the form appears in the leaked content sure gives a lot of false positives.

Which I suppose forces more awareness, but it doesn't instill a lot of confidence.

[+] DavideNL|9 years ago|reply
true... but unfortunately in this case (Dropbox) you would have gotten a notification about 4.5 years later ;-)
[+] SerialBusiness|9 years ago|reply
Damn, thanks for this. It seems that I've actually been pwned at some point.
[+] nstj|9 years ago|reply
Fun fact: Have I Been Pwned neither salts nor hashes the creds which it stores on its website, potentially making itself an interesting target for hackers[0]

[0]: http://risky.biz/RB388

[+] achr2|9 years ago|reply
Dropbox should absolutely be held to the flame for trying to downplay the severity of this. Their communication says 'This is purely a preventative measure', but if you had/have reused this password on any other sites (let's face it a huge proportion of non tech savvy people do this) then your entire online presence may be exposed.
[+] gshulegaard|9 years ago|reply
Genuinely curious, but what do you think the severity is?

Everything I know about it (this article included) places the Dropbox leak very low in my sense of severity.

[+] Swizec|9 years ago|reply
Non tech savvy? Everyone does this. It's practical.

Sure most of us have a few passwords we reuse, but I know less than 5 people with truly unique passwords.

[+] 0x0|9 years ago|reply
It was pretty obvious the dropbox hack was real several years ago, because lots of spam mail started arriving at my dropbox-unique email almost immediately after the breach. I changed my email to another unique address quickly back then. Unique-per-service email addresses work pretty well as a canary for breaches. Just make sure there is more uniqueness than just the service name to such addresses, or someone could see your pattern and start spamming by guessing popular services.

On a side note, don't forget the time dropbox accepted ANY password during logins - http://www.cnet.com/news/dropbox-confirms-security-glitch-no...

[+] CookieMon|9 years ago|reply
> Unique-per-service email addresses work pretty well as a canary for breaches

I do this too, but it taught me everything is breached - the local ambulance service, the local computer store, the local car share, small businesses overseas that I've placed orders with.

Some of the big names don't seem to be, which is lucky because otherwise I'd be wondering if it was the ISPs that had been breached. Either large chunks of SMTP routes are breached and picking up confirmation emails, or there's a giant iceberg of pwnage floating beneath the surface out of view.

[+] mike-cardwell|9 years ago|reply
I do the unique address thing, but I also have another system for giving out temporary email addresses. If I want to hand an email address which I know should not receive email after say, this Saturday, I'll just give them "[email protected]" - I don't have to do anything to set that up, it will accept mail as long as the date isn't after 3rd September 2016. I blogged it up a while ago here:

https://grepular.com/Automatically_Expiring_Email_Addresses

[+] cm2187|9 years ago|reply
I cannot agree more, I do the same, and invite everyone else to do so.

- Useful as a canary of which website has been breached

- Useful as a canary of which website sold your details

- and if your details are in the wild, you can stop the spam by deleting the address

Credit cards should work the same way: a unique authorization code specific to this vendor or this transaction and useless to any other actor.

[+] Neil44|9 years ago|reply
My LogMeIn unique address gets tons of spam - their response was that I must have given it away elsewhere. I no longer use LogMeIn.
[+] OJFord|9 years ago|reply

    > Unique-per-service email addresses work pretty well 
and they're so easy with Gmail - anything following a '+' character after your username (or alias, if using your own/company domain) will go to the same box, but keep the distinct address.

Unfortunately, depressingly many sites validate email fields, and get it wrong - thinking '+' is not allowed.

IMO it's not even worth trying to get an email regex (or other validation) right - you're probably going to send out an activation email anyway!

[+] dvcrn|9 years ago|reply
unique-per-service email addresses sound indeed interesting. How did you set it up?

I am a google apps customer and already have a few 20 aliases in there but having to go through their UI every time I sign up seems very tiresome. Can I create a wildcard email in the terms of service-*@bar.com being a alias of email [email protected]?

Do you know of a non-selfhosted provider that is able to do that?

/EDIT: Looks like fastmail, a service many on HN recommended is able to do something similar [0], though if one email gets added into a spam list, it seems to be not possible to remove one particular one.

/EDIT2: Fastmail just confirmed to be on Twitter that it is possible to set individual emails to rejected. Though this requires effectively creating a new alias and setting it to bounce which falls under the account limitations [1], so 600 for a single person account.

[0]: https://www.fastmail.com/help/receive/alias-catchall.html

[1]: https://www.fastmail.com/help/account/limits.html

[+] prof_hobart|9 years ago|reply
I do the same, but some companies don't seem to be interested. I've had two different emails linked to a magazine's website and had spam to both.

When I've contacted them about it, they've been absolutely adamant that the spammer must have (twice) guessed the exact email address that I've had there.

[+] terraforming|9 years ago|reply
I use spamgourmet.com for the unique-email-per-service..

Sadly, it doesn't support 2FA.

[+] pingec|9 years ago|reply
Would be cool to have a service do this automatically and test which services leak email addresses and which don't.
[+] dgoldstein|9 years ago|reply
Yes but at the time, there was only evidence of password reuse leading to some comprised email lists... Not that password hashes themselves had been stolen. Sigh.
[+] willvarfar|9 years ago|reply
50% of the leaked hashes were bcrypt and the other 50% were salted sha1.

So, asking the HNers who crack passwords or follow the tech closely and have a good feel:

Salted sha1 can be brute forced much quicker, but in practical terms what kind of complexity of password is vulnerable today if it was stored salted sha1 vs bcrypt?

And how can this be projected to change in the next couple of years?

[+] jsmthrowaway|9 years ago|reply
Repeating from the other thread:

I highly recommend Troy's HIBP service, hiding your e-mail from showing up in public searches (important for opsec), and donating whatever you can to Troy. He's doing excellent work. This is the first time it's notified me and it was great, because I completely forgot I signed up. I appreciate a service that low maintenance.

HIBP is a truly essential service and I'd be happy to pay more. Even with good password discipline it's useful knowledge on your exposure and I cannot recommend it enough. He mentions it near the end but this is one of those no brainers that should be repeated very loudly.

https://haveibeenpwned.com

[+] donw|9 years ago|reply
Since lots of people will be rotating passwords, this is probably a good time to set up Two-Factor Authentication (2FA) as well.

I recommend Authy as your 2FA app, as it lets you set a backup password, which you can use to move your 2FA tokens between devices.

For your critical services, keeping encrypted copies of your backup codes is a must.

[+] lllorddino|9 years ago|reply
> 1Password now has a subscription service for $3 a month and you get the first 6 months for free.

Don't pay for this people. Use the open source password manager Keepass http://keepass.info/

[+] zaroth|9 years ago|reply
> As for Dropbox, they seem to have handled this really well.

I'm biased, but I can't agree with this. From what I can tell, there are two communications from Dropbox -- one in 2012 [1] and one last week [2].

In 2012 they did not disclose that hashes were stolen, so I don't see how it's really relevant. In the latest communication, they don't actually explain the risk to the user. They say it is "purely as a preventative measure" but if salts and hashes were accessed, then that is not the case.

Just because Troy doesn't have access to some of the salts, doesn't mean the attacker doesn't have access. We don't know how many iterations of SHA-1, but SHA-1 can be run by a single GPU on the order of billions of times per second. So unless Dropbox is coming out and saying they know for certain that random 128-bit salts were definitely not accessed by the attacker, almost all of the SHA1 hashed passwords are getting cracked. Users need to know their passwords are exposed, and must be reset not as a preventative measure, but because they are almost certain to be compromised.

As for the salted/bcrypt passwords, we can see from Troy's hash they used $2a$08$ which is bcrypt with a cost factor of 8 -- 2^8 iterations. Gosney's latest rig [3] could crack these bcrypt hashes at about 105,700 / 8 = 13,212 per second. That's not terrible, but that's still 416 billion tries in a year for a modest investment.

[1] - https://blogs.dropbox.com/dropbox/2012/07/security-update-ne... [2] - https://blogs.dropbox.com/dropbox/2016/08/resetting-password... [3] - https://gist.github.com/epixoip/a83d38f412b4737e99bbef804a27...

[+] peteretep|9 years ago|reply
Dropbox is about the only service I use a memorable password for, as it has my 1Password file in it, which has my Google one-time-auth codes in it. If I lose my phone while on the road, only remembering my Dropbox password is going to get me out of the mess. Any sensible other solutions here? It's still ~14 characters, but other than making it more random, what are my options?
[+] VeejayRampay|9 years ago|reply
Can someone in the know indicate how to BEST manage passwords for different services in a secure way in 2016? Should I be using password managers (à la 1Password, LastPassword and others), or use something like Keychain Access on Mac OS X (what are the Windows equivalents?), anything else? It's important to note that not everyone is well-educated on the matter, despite the fact that most people on HN are technical people.

EDIT: Thanks everyone for your answers, this is a good example of the power of communities.

[+] watson|9 years ago|reply
What really bothers be about this is that Dropbox hasn't bothered to reset the sessions. Even after I manually reset my password (which I wasn't prompted or forced to do btw), all my apps (iPhone, desktop etc) that have existing sessions wasn't expired. So for all I know, a hacker might already have an open session to my Dropbox and changing the password will not fix that

Clarification edit: I did receive the e-mail from Dropbox letting me know that I should change my password, but when visiting dropbox.com I was already logged in and wasn't prompted to perform the pw reset

[+] randyrand|9 years ago|reply
How is it possible for Hashcat to crack a 20 character long random password in 6ms? That is mind boggling.

I thought he was just going to hash the password and see if it fit the leaked hash, but no, it looks like he actually did the reverse and cracked the hash to see if it fit the password, right?

Edit: oh it looks like he provided the password to hashcat in the form of a psudo 'dictionary' to use. So Hashcat was not really cracking it - just iterating through a 1 word dictionary - like he said.

[+] aluhut|9 years ago|reply
Self hosting is my way to go. Had enough of this.

> My wife uses a password manager. If your significant other doesn't (and I'm assuming you do by virtue of being here and being interested in security), go and get them one now! 1Password now has a subscription service for $3 a month and you get the first 6 months for free.

How about...not? There are tiny open source tools for every OS. You can do it locally, save it on a stick or on your damn phone...why taking more risks especially facing this massive fail here?

[+] thomasahle|9 years ago|reply
> Self hosting is the way to go.

Because you can secure it better than them? Or because you'll be less of a target?

[+] cel1ne|9 years ago|reply
I trust 1Password more than lastpass or keypassx.
[+] 10011100|9 years ago|reply

  a subscription service 
  for $3 a month and you 
  get the first 6 months 
  for free.
...and now, a word from our sponsors.
[+] rickycook|9 years ago|reply
that's true, but 1p is far better than the open source options. it also has wifi sync between devices, so your fault never leaves your devices via anything but trusted, local connections if that's what you want
[+] maherbeg|9 years ago|reply
What sites does everyone have two step verification on? I'm trying to figure out where I need to setup two step verification that also accounts for a phone being stolen/lost.

Between gmail, dropbox (1password is synced here), and apple, I'm not sure where I should be enabling it. It seems like everywhere but gmail and apple is probably the right move...

[+] chinathrow|9 years ago|reply
Great read.

He goes on to say that 1Password has a subscription now and that you should signup for it.

No. I will never, ever put all my passwords into a cloud based password store. I simply do not trust them to not fuck it up at one point in time.

Am I alone with this view?

[+] raverbashing|9 years ago|reply
I wonder why the SHA1s don't have the salt. Were they removed so that only the original owners have it so it's easier to crack?

Oh well, another HIBP entry with my email address...

[+] jorblumesea|9 years ago|reply
Funny, I just got an email a week ago saying they had noticed my password hadn't been changed in awhile (2012, which was interesting based on the article). Sounds like they knew about this and beefed up security.Or, they beefed up security on newer passwords but didn't cut over the old ones? The email did not mention any data theft, kinda wish it did. Too little, too late.
[+] update|9 years ago|reply
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Dropbox's bug bounty program: https://hackerone.com/dropbox

You have to wonder if all those grumbling whitehats were on to something when they said bug bounties should pay a lot more than what they do and that there IS a black market interest for them.