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Show HN: A self-hosted alternative to Trello, Basecamp, and Freshbooks

396 points| 23andwalnut | 9 years ago |duetapp.com | reply

154 comments

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[+] 23andwalnut|9 years ago|reply
I'm a solo developer and I built the first version of this app a couple of years ago. This is the third major rewrite and I've added a ton of functionality since then (i.e. recurring invoicing, kanban, reply by email, more flexible user roles, etc). I'd love to hear any feedback you guys have - about the actual app, the landing page, or anything else. Always looking to make it better and more appealing. I'll be completely honest, marketing has been...very challenging for this product, but occasionally there will be a huge boost in traffic and sales will go up pretty quick, I just haven't been able to make it sustainable.

Here's the HN discussion from when I posted the first version a couple of years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5698741

I already got approval from dang to post again since it's been so long and a lot has changed about the app.

[+] inputcoffee|9 years ago|reply
Add a hosted option with a monthly fee so people can try it out or even just have you host it.

I know that then its just like the others, but really its not like the others. The small differences are huge to a user.

A monthly fee will help stabilize the income.

Also, at $10/mo you'll make the same revenue every year as selling the whole thing. For comparison, basecamp is $29 or $79 per month.

[+] jmnicolas|9 years ago|reply
I have absolutely no use for this app, however I'm glad there are still people that don't think storing important things in the cloud is no biggie.

A few years ago I read somewhere that "privacy is dead" and I thought it was an exaggeration. Not anymore.

Sorry for the rant and good luck with your app.

[+] mortenjorck|9 years ago|reply
One important thing that seems to be missing from your marketing site are the technical requirements. What stack is Duet based on? This makes a huge difference to the moderately-technical small-business owner who is comfortable configuring Wordpress on their shared webhost but will have no idea where to start if you ask them to spin up a Node server.
[+] volent|9 years ago|reply
Your product looks really nice.

If you are not profitable yet maybe you should consider increasing the price, you're much cheaper than the competition based on your pricing page.

[+] coldshower|9 years ago|reply
I purchased Duet a few years ago and it was unworkable. When I asked for a refund you denied me.

No hard feelings, but you didn't back your work (or even offer to troubleshoot the problem) so I won't be buying again.

[+] ProAm|9 years ago|reply
The landing page could do without the animated text or the chatbot that pops up and asks for my participation. Too busy, and a little irritating... I'd like to learn about the product first before Im bombarded with stuff like that. Good luck, seems like a solid offering.
[+] newbish|9 years ago|reply
I would like to see the ability to apply a rate to a person on a project and have that flow through to the invoice. I think there needs to be flexibility to edit the rate or write down hours but other than that its really nice.
[+] teyc|9 years ago|reply
What's your stack and how did you get to be so productive as a solo dev?
[+] pwenzel|9 years ago|reply
Might it ever be possible sign in to Duet via Google Apps login?
[+] grennis|9 years ago|reply
I don't see a feature for time entry. Can I enter time and generate invoices from an hourly rate? That's 90% of what I use freshbooks for.
[+] hemancuso|9 years ago|reply
This looks fantastic. I think there is an additional opportunity you might be able to capture by adding functionality for the indie software store. The number of software developers who are paying 8% to fastspring for some pretty basic functionality is incredible. If you're looking for next steps, I'd think about a simple ecommerce storefront for digital licenses.
[+] huevosabio|9 years ago|reply
Pretty sweet! I have a feeling that self-hosting might make a come back

Are your clients mostly tech companies? If not, how do you manage the setup for non-tech companies?

[+] mangeletti|9 years ago|reply
This situation (upgrading server during traffic spike) is an example of why saving a $20-50/mo on hosting isn't worth it, unless it's for something non-commercial.

If you've got maybe tens of thousands of dollars of time (and money?) invested in your app, what's another $40-80/mo for better hosting (e.g., 8GB/4 cores on Digital Ocean is $80/mo), in case something like this traffic spike happens? The app reaches the top of HN, where thousands of people that use Trello, Basecamp, and/or Freshbooks (I use all 3, every day) will be frequenting, and you've lost all that revenue.

[+] 23andwalnut|9 years ago|reply
Completely agree. Once it happened though, my options were limited. Just trying to improve the experience for everyone that will come after the resize is done (should be soon). Seems slightly better than providing a terrible experience for the entire day rather than for just 30 mins.

EDIT: And we're back :) Sorry it took so long.

[+] taco_emoji|9 years ago|reply
(Disclaimer: I'm not your target demo, so feel free to ignore this...)

What kind of backup/restore capabilities does this have? If I were in the market for this, that'd be one of my primary concerns in deciding between self-hosted vs. cloud. Ideally one atomic operation to back up all my data, and another single operation to restore, such that I could install Duet on a new host, restore the backup, and be back on my feet.

Also: how easy is this for non-technical users to install? It might be worth your time to make guides for one or more specific hosting companies, taking them through the process to purchase hosting, domain name, etc.

[+] 23andwalnut|9 years ago|reply
The installer does backups during the upgrade process. There's no mechanism for on-demand backups though. I suppose it would be trivial to add that functionality. Restoring from a backup, while simple, has some manual steps.

Since I have no control over where Duet gets installed, and my customers have a wide variety of server capabilities, I try to keep everything as simple as possible. Install takes about 5 minutes and all you really need is the ability to ftp to your server and the know-how to hunt down your mysql credentials. 99% of the time when people have trouble it's just a matter of helping them figure out their correct credentials.

[+] 23andwalnut|9 years ago|reply
On the phone with my host right now to try to fix the slowness of the site. I honestly wasn't expecting to hit the front page again.
[+] skrowl|9 years ago|reply
If only there were some kind of HUB that people could use for their FOSS projects that provided free hosting on giant piles of bandwidth!

It would be nice if it used GIT too!

Man, that would be pretty sweet.

[+] atria|9 years ago|reply
Nice. I'm forever looking for any viable alternative to QuickBooks. I've even thought about writing my own invoicing application.

Looks great, but I personally don't like the collaboration tools mashed into the dash board. It looks cluttered. It also wasn't clear what information the client's would see. If they saw dollar amounts, it's a deal killer-- I work with too many clients and am assigned to work with other non-management employees.

Also, for reports -- I only saw a graph. I need to see who's behind and take action to get paid, and follow up with phone calls, emails, and letters.

I'd also like to see the ability to print invoices to mail them to clients. Some clients are overwhelmed with email, but a paper invoice gets paid.

My complaints with most projects in this genre I've evaluated -- they seem to be written by freelancers who've never had bad clients, never had to chase people down for payment, or never been in a relationship that turns sour.

Work for one bad client, and it will change you, and how you do business.

[+] andyraskin|9 years ago|reply
I've been checking out a few invoicing app alternatives:

* InvoicePlane - self-hosted, open source (PHP). https://invoiceplane.com/

* Invoicely (formerly Invoiceable): http://invoicely.com

* Hiveage: https://www.hiveage.com

I've mainly been using Invoicely (free if you just create invoices and send them as PDFs), but now feeling bad about it because: https://medium.com/@prabhaths/invoicely-a-hiveage-rip-off-b9... I really like free, though, so thinking about switching to InvoicePlane.

[+] 23andwalnut|9 years ago|reply
There's actually an alternate view of the dashboard if you don't like the current one. It's hard to see in the demo (I need to work on that), but I can show you if you email me.

It's pretty easy to see whose behind, but I agree, it can be improved. One thing I really want to add for myself is a daily email from the system giving me a list of late invoices, tasks due that day, etc.

Invoices can be downloaded as PDF and then mailed. You can download them or the client can.

Also, the demo let's you log in as a client. Just use the options in the bottom right corner. Every client can see everything about their projects, including dollar amounts. Obviously any info related to another client's account can only be seen by admins.

[+] BinaryIdiot|9 years ago|reply
Have you thought about providing this as a SaaS offering? This looks really nice but I get the feeling you're in the middle between two markets. You're not quite in the enterprise space because this is super cheap and you don't seem to offer support contracts (and you're mostly going to get sales by doing demos for companies) and you're certainly not in the single user market (no single person except a developer, MAYBE, would install their own web application just to handle tasking).

In my opinion I would offer SaaS for a low price, say, $5 a month or something so single users can use it and then provide a separate area of business, much like Github Enterprise, where you will meet with companies and charge for the full product as a yearly license with installation and update fees and possibly support contracts.

[+] andreasklinger|9 years ago|reply
Why do you offer the software so cheap?

Even the developer hour to just evaluate this tool would be more expensive already for any company.

Imo: push the price to somewhere between 299 and 599 - maybe make the invoice feature the premium reason

[+] 23andwalnut|9 years ago|reply
Resizing the server, so it will be down for about 30 minutes, but performance should be greatly improved when it's done.
[+] esafwan|9 years ago|reply
I am not sure if you have considered this already. Put Cloudflare in front of your site and write a page rule to cache html too. You server will hardly get any hit for cachable pages(which i believe most of your pages are) and then enable always online feature. All the best. :)
[+] welanes|9 years ago|reply
> down for about 30 minutes

OK, but do you realize how long that is in Internet years?

[+] gramakri|9 years ago|reply
Thanks, just played with the demo and looks very polished. This seems to be very useful for consultants working on multiple projects/customers.

Can you give me some insight into your existing customers? Do they come for privacy or price or because it's better than Trello/Basecamp/Freshbooks? If they had to pick one, which would they choose?

[+] 23andwalnut|9 years ago|reply
Thanks! From the survey I did a couple of weeks ago there's a pretty even three way split between privacy, price, and brandability. I didn't realize the branding aspect was so important and that's why I just added it to the marketing page. I don't think it's necessarily 'better' than those services, it's just integrated...and self hosted...both of which are very appealing to a certain segment of the market.
[+] kowdermeister|9 years ago|reply
It's not a hacker news traffic bump, I found this project a few days ago and the site also didn't load. I thought it's gone for good.
[+] 23andwalnut|9 years ago|reply
A billing hiccup with my host actually. My credit card expired and I didn't keep up with the messages from my host letting me know I needed to update it. So they took a more extreme measure. It was only down for an hour or two, but sorry for the inconvenience.
[+] molsongolden|9 years ago|reply
Is there any way to pay for upgrades with duet? I purchased a license last time this came up on HN (when it was on codecanyon?) then forgot about it for a bit, didn't download the source in time and lost the ability to access the code.
[+] 23andwalnut|9 years ago|reply
Yes, absolutely. Free upgrades last for a year, so you would need to purchase new license if you wanted the latest version. Or you can open a ticket and I'll send you the last version you were eligible for.
[+] zapt02|9 years ago|reply
I remember buying version 1 of Duet back in the day. I also remember you taking it off marketplaces and stop supporting it for your existing users. I hope you have bettered your ways since then, but I wouldn't count on it.
[+] 23andwalnut|9 years ago|reply
You're right, I did take it off codecanyon. It wasn't the right place for it. I'll also admit that there was a period where support wasn't that great. But I've done a lot to improve it since then and now I have a support center, a support community, and a formal support ticketing process....instead of the email based support I was attempting to provide, which is impossible to keep up with. And regardless of whether you purchased the app on Codecanyon, you're still eligible to receive support even though I no longer sell there. Anyway, I'm really sorry you had a bad experience, but I'm happy to help with any issues had or are still having.
[+] jrs235|9 years ago|reply
Just tried going to the website and received a warning from Webroot SecureAnywhere stating the website contains a knwon threat and has been blocked. (Contains malicious content). You might want to get that checked out...
[+] 23andwalnut|9 years ago|reply
Thanks for letting me know. There's definitely no malicious content on the site. I've had false positives in the past with a different service. I'll look into it and try to figure out what's going on.
[+] philplckthun|9 years ago|reply
The website was a bit slow to load... Like the last time, I guess? Hug of death :P

I love how simple it is. Really good job at breaking complex behaviour down into smaller interactions. I think this looks even better than Asana. Dependencies on a "parent task" planned?

[+] altsyset|9 years ago|reply
The advantage of this option is clear. That is why people will jump on it. Yet the challenge of having self hosted products is providing continuous development, support and maintenance.

This challenge is not just for the client it is for you, the developer too. You must make sure they have a way to update their product and you to continue to develop in one place.

[+] otto_ortega|9 years ago|reply
I only wanted to say it has a pretty nice GUI. I'm a solo developer too, and try to put a lot of attention to the visual part of my projects. This one came out very nicely. Congrats!
[+] cdvonstinkpot|9 years ago|reply
Hey I've tried to talk with your customer service/sales through that chat widget on your website- twice now, but get nothing.

I have a couple questions before I buy. Could you or someone knowlegeable about the product reach me, please?

Contact info in HN profile.

-Thanks

[+] nyfresh|9 years ago|reply
Came here to see all the reasons should be converted to A SaaS Based solution, was not disappointed.

I've seen questions about - Required tech specs - Potential upgrades - Trial periods - Varying pricing schemes - General support

These things are handled differently with SaaS. Its easier to address with continued income too.