Only Five eye countries are close allies to US. France and Germany act more independently and sometimes against US interests. They are watched with suspicion.
US and France have been spying each other for ages.
U.S. Intelligence and the French
Nuclear Weapons Program – Documents Show U.S. Intelligence Targeted French Nuclear Program as Early as 1946 http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB184/
Former head of France’s counter-espionage understands what is the name of the game:
>“The French intelligence services know full well that all countries, whether or not they are allies in the fight against terrorism, spy on each other all the time,” he said.
“The Americans spy on French commercial and industrial interests, and we do the same to them because it’s in the national interest to protect our companies.”
“There was nothing of any real surprise in this report,” he added. “No one is fooled.”
"Chancellor Merkel is important. If the NSA was not surveying her communications, it was only because it was unable to do so,"
"How could the NSA not want to listen in on the person rated by Forbes as the second most powerful person in the world after President Obama?”
The point of the "game" is to induce a chilling effect on private conversations to limit the available discourse about decisions. The French President becomes afraid not to just make a particular decision, but also to even discuss it. It should be obvious that knowledge of spying changes bevahior during diplomatic relations.
This gives inordinate power to organizations that have greater spying capability--the United States with its NSA will have more influence in global affairs than France, even if we both have one vote in the UN security council.
Whether this has "always gone on", though, is irrelevant to whether it is antithetical to democracy.
Each plays a different game. Only the general public and politicians make a fuss about this. The general public is shocked because they don't know, politicians act shocked because they must. People in Intelligence are a bit more clinical about it because they're not politicians. But even in the Intelligence Community, it's amazing how much gung-ho some former Intelligence Officers display.
You take "The Art of Intelligence" and it's so oversimplified and naive it's unbearable. I refuse to believe the author, an Ambassador at Large, thinks that way. His assets are brave and courageous, other nations' assets are traitors and evil. It's all good guys (him) vs. bad guys (others) and there's absolutely no way an Intelligence Officer, anywhere in the world, who is not mentally challenged, can think that way. It's people who don't know terrorism and have had nothing to do with it who have the most clear cut, black and white, views.
Describing what he says as blunt is an understatement. In that video, he says some things about Bin Laden that would get anyone thrown in a hole somewhere for apologia for terrorism. That's almost a eulogy.
> "How could the NSA not want to listen in on the person rated by Forbes as the second most powerful person in the world after President Obama?”
He can rest assured that the USA never saw France as no2 in anything, except maybe gastronomy.
When Europe was reshaped at the end of WW2, De Gaul was not present on the table. It was Roosevelt, Churchil and Stalin who got the spoils.
I believe the only reason France enjoyed a sort of leadership in Europe was because Germany historically was seen as too dangerous to cut loose and the UK never felt part of Europe.
The US via Marshall's plan and the global money recycling scheme (Bretton Woods) made of a broken Germany a surplus country and the European powerhouse we all know and love today. Of course German culture (protestantism) had a lot to do with it. So, indirectly the US put Germany on a the road to become the most powerful country in Europe in the long run anyway.
Funny part of the video, is that at one point he was starting to talk about how the chinese raided Areva (major french nuclear company).
But this part got cut even before the video was completely removed. You can only see him starting the story, and then it stopped.
Honestly, as a french i'm a bit scared to see someone mention all those recent "state secrets" in a campus, with cameras all around. He even described the working method (mixing human intelligence and electronic), the workplace ( it ressembles a lot the "Bureau des affaires secret" TV show, because they had access to the DGSE offices), and the limits of the service (number of men, lack of resource to treat the information, damages done by snowden to surveillance capabilities, etc.)
At this point i only see two options :
1/ the guy's a bit old and senile.
2/ He knows exactly what he's doing, and he thinks France's intelligence capabilities are such in a mess that he needs to make this information public.
Judging by the recent intelligence fiascos, and the ever increasing terrorist threats the country's facing, i'd say 2/
So do I understand this correctly - they intercepted the palace's web traffic and were somehow able to read it and inject malicious code? If so, how were they able to bypass ssl?
They used QUANTUM INSERT which is for HTTP not HTTPS. So they just needed to wait until someone accessed HTTP site. Here is more technical description on how QI works:
> Quantum Insert requires the NSA and GCHQ to have fast-acting servers relatively near a target’s machine that are capable of intercepting browser traffic swiftly in order to deliver a malicious web page to the target’s machine before the legitimate web page can arrive.
It looks like they reply to a request instead of a legitimate server (poisoning DNS, or routing tables, maybe by jus adding a server to an anycast service) to infect the target machines. Once the target machine is infected, ssl, passwords, etc... No longer matter.
Barbier ridicules the idea of a “European CIA/NSA.” However, he believes that a joint French-German Intelligence Agency could be established and would be very efficient.
Yeah, except you'd have to give the Germans time to remove all their malware from the French servers before you could green light that.
I love the part "you guys are good". It's like attacking someone with baseball bats on a dark street, break bones, kick face and say "sorry mate, you're good' and leave without consequences.
Also, Barbier confirmed at the same conference that France had hacked Canada's house, which was denied by the French government. So yeah, the US are clearly not the only ones to do that.
Well, the French are going to have their "Snowden Moment" one day. And the NSA will sh*t a collective brick when documents reveal the Michelle O. was a French operative the whole time. D=
What follows from the attitude that "Of course allies spy on each other" is that one would expect a greater effort to create secure systems and enable actual autonomy in decision-making and confidential communications in carrying out state decisions.
In fact what we have in a US empire implemented in part through interlocking relationships in the Deep State: Militaries talk directly to the US military outside of control by elected officials and so do intelligence officers. The US sphere of influence uses US technology that enables US spying.
NSA is spying ? What a surprise... It's crazy how everybody seems surprised everytime news like that show up. Everybody spy on each other and i'm sure France does the same.
This is exactly what American intelligence shoukd do: gather intelligence from other countries. It's when they spy on their own citizens that I get a little upset.
[+] [-] nabla9|9 years ago|reply
US and France have been spying each other for ages.
U.S. Intelligence and the French Nuclear Weapons Program – Documents Show U.S. Intelligence Targeted French Nuclear Program as Early as 1946 http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB184/
Former head of France’s counter-espionage understands what is the name of the game:
http://www.france24.com/en/20131024-nsa-france-spying-squarc...
>“The French intelligence services know full well that all countries, whether or not they are allies in the fight against terrorism, spy on each other all the time,” he said. “The Americans spy on French commercial and industrial interests, and we do the same to them because it’s in the national interest to protect our companies.” “There was nothing of any real surprise in this report,” he added. “No one is fooled.” "Chancellor Merkel is important. If the NSA was not surveying her communications, it was only because it was unable to do so," "How could the NSA not want to listen in on the person rated by Forbes as the second most powerful person in the world after President Obama?”
[+] [-] trendia|9 years ago|reply
This gives inordinate power to organizations that have greater spying capability--the United States with its NSA will have more influence in global affairs than France, even if we both have one vote in the UN security council.
Whether this has "always gone on", though, is irrelevant to whether it is antithetical to democracy.
[+] [-] Jugurtha|9 years ago|reply
You take "The Art of Intelligence" and it's so oversimplified and naive it's unbearable. I refuse to believe the author, an Ambassador at Large, thinks that way. His assets are brave and courageous, other nations' assets are traitors and evil. It's all good guys (him) vs. bad guys (others) and there's absolutely no way an Intelligence Officer, anywhere in the world, who is not mentally challenged, can think that way. It's people who don't know terrorism and have had nothing to do with it who have the most clear cut, black and white, views.
Contrast with this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnEKEfkdrOU
Who says the exact same thing as Michael Scheuer (former Intelligence Officer tasked with Bin Laden).
https://youtu.be/E0dPy2XCst8?t=6m29s
Describing what he says as blunt is an understatement. In that video, he says some things about Bin Laden that would get anyone thrown in a hole somewhere for apologia for terrorism. That's almost a eulogy.
[+] [-] atmosx|9 years ago|reply
He can rest assured that the USA never saw France as no2 in anything, except maybe gastronomy.
When Europe was reshaped at the end of WW2, De Gaul was not present on the table. It was Roosevelt, Churchil and Stalin who got the spoils.
I believe the only reason France enjoyed a sort of leadership in Europe was because Germany historically was seen as too dangerous to cut loose and the UK never felt part of Europe.
The US via Marshall's plan and the global money recycling scheme (Bretton Woods) made of a broken Germany a surplus country and the European powerhouse we all know and love today. Of course German culture (protestantism) had a lot to do with it. So, indirectly the US put Germany on a the road to become the most powerful country in Europe in the long run anyway.
[+] [-] bsaul|9 years ago|reply
But this part got cut even before the video was completely removed. You can only see him starting the story, and then it stopped.
Honestly, as a french i'm a bit scared to see someone mention all those recent "state secrets" in a campus, with cameras all around. He even described the working method (mixing human intelligence and electronic), the workplace ( it ressembles a lot the "Bureau des affaires secret" TV show, because they had access to the DGSE offices), and the limits of the service (number of men, lack of resource to treat the information, damages done by snowden to surveillance capabilities, etc.)
At this point i only see two options :
1/ the guy's a bit old and senile.
2/ He knows exactly what he's doing, and he thinks France's intelligence capabilities are such in a mess that he needs to make this information public.
Judging by the recent intelligence fiascos, and the ever increasing terrorist threats the country's facing, i'd say 2/
[+] [-] jacquesm|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ceejayoz|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] martinko|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kbart|9 years ago|reply
https://blog.fox-it.com/2015/04/20/deep-dive-into-quantum-in...
[+] [-] dorfsmay|9 years ago|reply
It looks like they reply to a request instead of a legitimate server (poisoning DNS, or routing tables, maybe by jus adding a server to an anycast service) to infect the target machines. Once the target machine is infected, ssl, passwords, etc... No longer matter.
[+] [-] comboy|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] 3pt14159|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eli|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ourmandave|9 years ago|reply
Yeah, except you'd have to give the Germans time to remove all their malware from the French servers before you could green light that.
[+] [-] Gmo|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] akerro|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] plopilop|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ourmandave|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zigurd|9 years ago|reply
In fact what we have in a US empire implemented in part through interlocking relationships in the Deep State: Militaries talk directly to the US military outside of control by elected officials and so do intelligence officers. The US sphere of influence uses US technology that enables US spying.
[+] [-] pilooch|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GOSINT|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] erazor42|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] giosch|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ceejayoz|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GirlsCanCode|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Bakary|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yuja_wang|9 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] SixSigma|9 years ago|reply