The response to this highlights something I've noticed watching Open Source stuff for a while: this attitude that a piece of software can never simply be finished, but that it must constantly be changing to be alive.
This is a good example of that. Bootstrap 3 has been out for a while and it mostly works for the things it was designed to work for. If you look hard enough, you can find bugs and situations where it's not suitable to use. But that's fine. It's a super valuable thing that we all get for free. The new site I'm building on it looks way prettier than it ever would if I was designing it myself, and will remain so indefinitely, even if these guys never commit anything else to the project.
I don't see anything wrong with the guys who built it stamping it "done" and moving on to the next thing.
Right now we don't have a maintained, release version of bootstrap. That's not really reasonable at all, imo. I understand wanting to focus on the next version, but maybe continue to maintain v3 until v4 comes out? Ditching support the day v4 drops is still kinda premature, imo, but still better than this limbo we're left with. Frankly this seems incredibly unprofessional.
Long time v2 and v3 user - I'm happy to see them mark v3 as 'done'. It's good enough. Bugs exist, but they'll be worked on at a reasonable priority.
I finally moved a new project to v4 alpha for some newer features because I'm tired of waiting. It's not ready for production yet so I'm happy to see this renewed focus for the main devs on v4.
>attitude that a piece of software can never simply be finished
The problem often is the delta between perfect, and done. It's hard, as a creator, to realize when something is great in other people's eyes. The creator looks at their work and cringes. Everyone else looks at it and claps. It's that delta that creates the drive for perpetual development.
Generally I agree with this sentiment. Having no previous exposure to Bootstrap's development process, it is interesting to see @mdo acting so unilaterally (and I can see why he is able to after reading his GitHub profile, hah). Particularly considering that he signs off all the issue closures as "@mdo and team". It's hard to understand that (again, as an outsider) without a deeper explanation.
Given that, knee-jerk reactions to the mass closing of issues surely won't come as a surprise, but it also should make for some interesting debate. Is that the best way to stamp v3 "done"?
Development is probably stopping on v3, sure, but that doesn't mean it will completely be unsupported and ignored. Let's say there is some major bug in v3 that comes out soon, you better believe it will be addressed. Otto just wants to push faster on v4 by dropping all existing split dev work.
On one hand, at least browsers are good about maintaining backwards-compatibility of CSS, so that pages that look okay with bootstrap 3 will continue looking okay for a good time.
On the other hand, slapping "Don't care" label on all the issues of the current stable version seems... bit excessive.
All in all, makes me happy I only use bootstrap for the CSS, and not the JS-based interactions.
For all of you who have contributed free and open source software in your spare time, thank you so much for your contributions. I have used your projects personally and at work and have not given back as much as I have contributed. You owe me nothing. I have not paid any of you anything, and no doubt while I was riding my bike, doing some woodworking, or any other number of leisure activities...you were working on a project, probably often outside of your work hours. I have absolutely no say (in my opinion) on what you choose to do with your free time, including whether you decide to spend your limited free time developing a new version...which in this case may mean that you then don't have the time to continue to bugfix the previous version. If I really don't like it, well then I better step up with some money to fund some support or do the support myself.
We just had had a thread about the new v4 Alpha 4 [1], in which several people reacted incredulously [2][3][4] at why developers would feel pressured to upgrade from v3 to v4 for existing projects.
This news, not even 24 hours later, confirms others' and my fears [5], that v4's arrival will mean the cessation of releases -- including bugfix and maintenance releases -- on the v3 line, effectively making it abandoned.
Nothing stopping you or anyone else from keeping it up to date. I think it's silly to have these expectations from people creating free software for the world.
"Bootstrap 3 is no longer supported"... And no final bootstrap 4 release yet. So, there is NO supported stable bootstrap versions at all right now? :-/
jasonkester|9 years ago
The response to this highlights something I've noticed watching Open Source stuff for a while: this attitude that a piece of software can never simply be finished, but that it must constantly be changing to be alive.
This is a good example of that. Bootstrap 3 has been out for a while and it mostly works for the things it was designed to work for. If you look hard enough, you can find bugs and situations where it's not suitable to use. But that's fine. It's a super valuable thing that we all get for free. The new site I'm building on it looks way prettier than it ever would if I was designing it myself, and will remain so indefinitely, even if these guys never commit anything else to the project.
I don't see anything wrong with the guys who built it stamping it "done" and moving on to the next thing.
toxican|9 years ago
jly|9 years ago
I finally moved a new project to v4 alpha for some newer features because I'm tired of waiting. It's not ready for production yet so I'm happy to see this renewed focus for the main devs on v4.
beautifulpeople|9 years ago
The problem often is the delta between perfect, and done. It's hard, as a creator, to realize when something is great in other people's eyes. The creator looks at their work and cringes. Everyone else looks at it and claps. It's that delta that creates the drive for perpetual development.
cdubzzz|9 years ago
Given that, knee-jerk reactions to the mass closing of issues surely won't come as a surprise, but it also should make for some interesting debate. Is that the best way to stamp v3 "done"?
jnem|9 years ago
degenerate|9 years ago
Development is probably stopping on v3, sure, but that doesn't mean it will completely be unsupported and ignored. Let's say there is some major bug in v3 that comes out soon, you better believe it will be addressed. Otto just wants to push faster on v4 by dropping all existing split dev work.
sorich87|9 years ago
unknown|9 years ago
[deleted]
viach|9 years ago
silversmith|9 years ago
On the other hand, slapping "Don't care" label on all the issues of the current stable version seems... bit excessive.
All in all, makes me happy I only use bootstrap for the CSS, and not the JS-based interactions.
BigGillyStyle|9 years ago
niftich|9 years ago
This news, not even 24 hours later, confirms others' and my fears [5], that v4's arrival will mean the cessation of releases -- including bugfix and maintenance releases -- on the v3 line, effectively making it abandoned.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12432136 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12432546 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12433663 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12432666 [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12432915
whamlastxmas|9 years ago
0x0|9 years ago
josteink|9 years ago
Not sure if I mean that sarcastically or not.
ausjke|9 years ago
Maybe a fund-raise to have someone work on it full time, the way like what vue.js does?
tellor|9 years ago
Thanks.
Pigo|9 years ago
talmand|9 years ago
sschueller|9 years ago
oceanswave|9 years ago