FTA:
"The same is true of Google Maps. Although it makes far more sense for Maps to have access to your location, the latest build doesn't give you the option of turning it off. To do that, you have to turn off GPS on your phone altogether."
You can, of course, switch off location for google maps on android, and I'm surprised this article wasn't fact-checked for that. Settings->Apps->Maps->Permissions. Same as any other app.
I'm assuming the confusion is because the 'location settings' option in maps settings takes you to the phone's global location settings screen, which does only offer a global toggle. I don't think there's anything nefarious there, it's just that the settings menu isn't terribly well thought out.
disclaimer: googler on maps, but not android maps
edit: The article has been updated and now reads: "Although it makes far more sense for Maps to have access to your location, the latest build doesn't give you a decent option of turning it off. If you do cut off Maps' access to your location, "basic features of your device may no longer function as intended," the operating system warns."
Not that they've bothered to update the rest of the article.
This is what kinda bugs me about Android permissions - they're very binary. Either an app has location permissions or it doesn't. Personally, I would love to be able to say "Google Maps has access to location info while it's in the foreground, but not while in the background."
For that matter, it'd be nice if I could stop certain apps from running in the background at all. A task killer isn't the answer here - a few seconds is enough to gather some data and transmit it, and at that point the damage is done.
I wonder if disabling "Location services" in Android fully disables it. There is a definite conflict of interest with Google, since they both write the operating system and rely on location data.
This doesn't seem to be an option for me (Android 5.0.2). Settings->Apps->Maps->Permissions get me a screen that lists the permissions, but there is no way to change them. Am I missing something?
> Needless to say, this is not making some users very happy. Security researcher Mustafa Al-Bassam reported on Twitter that he "almost had a heart attack" when he walked into a McDonald's and was prompted on his phone to download the fast food restaurant's app.
Apple has iBeacons which can do this, sans GPS. I wonder if this user would be just as upset the prompt wasn't initiated from GPS location tracking?
Personally I think they are cool tech in theory but in practice kind of creepy.
Really, the only reason it's creepy is because it actualizes the difference between what a user thinks the location services know, and what they actually know. Your phone pretty much always knows roughly where you are, it usually just doesn't brag about it.
Apple's iBeacons only work after you install the app. The beacon IDs are mapped to a specific app and other apps can't see them. You would have to have the McDonalds app installed for McDonalds to be able to ping you when you walk in the store.
I mostly agree. With my iPhone, I disable wifi and bluetooth when I leave the house (We don't allow cell phone wifi at work, I don't drive very often, and if I'm sticking around somewhere with wifi for a while, I may choose to turn it on there). Unless I forget, of course. A phone a while back had a feature I really want - it would do that automatically (I think it was the phone Phil Zimmerman was involved in). Don't see Apple doing that anytime soon, though.
My feeling is that the businesses and other nosy APs on my way to work and along other corridors I walk can review/keep automated logs of my comings and goings when they establish an API allowing me access to me theirs.
And this is reason #643 for why I've deleted Google Maps, only use Gmail accounts as spam-buckets, use DDG, and generally have mostly cut Google out of my life. I started with an iPhone before Android existed, so I can't say they chased me away, but $%&#, my girlfriend doesn't need to know that much detail about my life; why on earth would I pay good money to send it to Google?
I have mixed feelings about it tbh... I actually appreciate some things I see in Google Now, and even the locations I've gone to, asking for reviews, etc... On the flip side it was really weird the first time I ever saw "You must leave in 2 hours to make your flight", because my ticket receipt came into my gmail, and google now does quite a bit to tether email stuff to notifications, they seem to have ical files in email integrated now.
A bit off topic, but I also almost had a heart attack recently when I got a notification identifying a product that I had recently taken a picture of. I have Google Goggles installed (it does this), but I had taken this picture with the normal camera app. A recent update sends all the user's pictures to the Goggles service. That means that any picture you take with the phone is sent to Google's servers for analysis, unless you know it's happening and figure out how to turn it off. (I was also impressed, as this was an obscure product: a bottle of fermented rice drink from Korea.)
I expect the location requirement is coming to Google from the media companies. As lots of media is licensed for a particular market, and there are a number of easy VPN solutions that can disguise your IP (and your nominal location) the only way to be "sure" of where you are is to ask the GPS unit. This allows Google Play to do "region coding" and for apps to call a standard API to enforce their own region coding requirements (say netflix or other streaming services).
It's weird that the writer is suggesting it's mysterious why Google Play would even need access to GPS, when at least one reason is obvious from the example in the article itself: to prompt people to download certain apps when they enter various locations.
There is no way to tell the Google Play Store where your stores are in the developer console. This is just a beacon, and the security researcher confused Google Play Services with Google Play Store.
Google Play Services probably does it so that all Android in-app ads can use the location as well through it.
I doubt this is very legal in the EU, as the user hasn't given "explicit consent" for this. It might be worth mentioning it to @vestager on Twitter, who's already been lining up official antitrust charges against Google.
I wonder if there's a more sinister reason for this than simply, "we want more data for ads." It always freaks me out that Google asks me to review places where I eat, drink, and hang out.
The sinister reason for this is that Google wants better data about places (so the service is more useful, so more people use it, so more ads are served, and so on).
I see the location icon every time I launch the Google Play Store app and sometimes when unlocking the phone for reasons unknown. Nearby is disabled (which still leaves the Nearby Google Play Services (GPS) service running sometimes).
Google Play Services are a trojan horse and a mobile device battery murderer. It takes away the power over your device. Have issues with it? Tough luck, if you'll downgrade, it'll be updated back automatically.
I want Android before 2012 back and not this proprietary fuckup.
I don't see what the issue is. Google knows your location, your phone provider knows your location without asking, and probably many other apps that you've given location access to knows where your location is.
They can use information like GPS, ip address and cell towers. So I don't know why this clickbait article is just pointing out these two google apps.
Yes, that's the issue: you can no longer deny Google the ability to know your location as long as either Maps or Play is installed.
> your phone provider knows your location without asking
First, Google is not my phone provider, and second, my provider only has access to cell tower info, not GPS info. GPS info is much more precise than tower info, and it's obviously not possible to deny cell tower info to the provider.
> and probably many other apps that you've given location access to knows where your location is.
The key phrase there being "that you have given access to". You cannot turn off access to Maps and Play and more. That's the problem.
So, this is what murders my phone's battery? I thought it was weird that GPS icon has been always active recently, and that my battery juice tends to start rapidly dropping sometimes without any reason. Now the only way I can use my phone without constantly charging is turning GPS off completely.
It's really strange to me. I noticed yesterday that the Play app started leaking battery like crazy on my Nexus 5. 100%-0% within 10 hours of idle, 33% due to Google Play Store.
Today, 6 hours since the full charge I'm looking again at the battery screen: 38% battery left.
16% Google Play Store (Total CPU: 10s, GPS: 6h 20min 6s, GSM: 1min28s)
6% Screen
4% Android system
Chrome is most surprising, as it's not usually there. I did a single web search three hours ago though. The phone is idle all day otherwise. There's something rotten in the mobile software industry that's literally making our pockets warm for no good reason.
Dear Google, please at least be a good citizen in your own ecosystem.
It seems like Google is trying to slowly boil the frog of location based ads. It started with Map Places reviews, which doesn't feel like an ad but it's annoying. I haven't seen anything like the McDonalds ad but that would infuriate me. At least I can disable permissions on the Play app.
Is this a big deal? I almost always turn GPS off anyway. I turn GPS on when I am travelling, and very occasionally for a minute if I use Google Map. GPS runs the battery down. Is GPS something most users leave turned on?
I thought the article would be about tracking via wifi use, which they probably do.
I suspect that most people don't understand much about location services and reference 'GPS' as the generic term for location tracking whether it's via GPS/Wifi/Cell tower/other. The bottom line is if your device has any sort of connectivity whatsoever that can geolocate your device, Google is using it. Off-line when it happens? No problem: they'll log it and upload the data when you reconnect.
Before this I did, since it didn't do anything as long as no app requested GPS. (at least it did feel very much like a GPS in warm-up mode when I did use it once in a while, and it had no discernible effect on the battery)
On iOS you'll also be tracked 24/7 by Google if you have Waze installed. Hiding behind the "being a traffic crowdsourcing app, we need location data from everyone" it doesn't allow you to use the location sharing option "while using the app", it's either always or never. And there's a purple arrow next to it each time you're driving, a sign that it's currently tracking you, even if the app is closed. (Gray means past 24h). Probably they use accelerometer data to know when you've started driving.
Well, I personally have my GPS off most of the time. That doesn't prevent mobile or WiFi location snooping, but it doesn't eat as much battery as it would if it was left on. Google Play Services are a terrible waste of battery. It's sad there are no options to opt out (provided by Google).
Most people don't know/care about opt outs normally, anyway, so it wouldn't be a great loss of revenue to provide such an option.
Google Play Services provides Google's aGPS abstraction. Whenever an app asks for location data and doesn't want to use much battery, it asks Google Play Services, which will return coarse location data, cached location data, or GPS data as requested by the app.
McDonald's uses a beacon protocol to suggest downloading an app without using location data.
This security researcher just doesn't understand anything about his phone.
[+] [-] darren_|9 years ago|reply
You can, of course, switch off location for google maps on android, and I'm surprised this article wasn't fact-checked for that. Settings->Apps->Maps->Permissions. Same as any other app.
I'm assuming the confusion is because the 'location settings' option in maps settings takes you to the phone's global location settings screen, which does only offer a global toggle. I don't think there's anything nefarious there, it's just that the settings menu isn't terribly well thought out.
disclaimer: googler on maps, but not android maps
edit: The article has been updated and now reads: "Although it makes far more sense for Maps to have access to your location, the latest build doesn't give you a decent option of turning it off. If you do cut off Maps' access to your location, "basic features of your device may no longer function as intended," the operating system warns."
Not that they've bothered to update the rest of the article.
[+] [-] ryukafalz|9 years ago|reply
For that matter, it'd be nice if I could stop certain apps from running in the background at all. A task killer isn't the answer here - a few seconds is enough to gather some data and transmit it, and at that point the damage is done.
[+] [-] trendia|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] leephillips|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tdkl|9 years ago|reply
Classic living in the bubble.
[+] [-] taspeotis|9 years ago|reply
Apple has iBeacons which can do this, sans GPS. I wonder if this user would be just as upset the prompt wasn't initiated from GPS location tracking?
Personally I think they are cool tech in theory but in practice kind of creepy.
[+] [-] jfktrey|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kyrra|9 years ago|reply
My guess the prompt to install an app was a BTLE beacon.
[+] [-] guelo|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DashRattlesnake|9 years ago|reply
> Personally I think they are cool tech in theory but in practice kind of creepy.
If it was a beacon, a little message explaining so would go a long way towards making the experience less creepy.
I've found little bits of "unnecessary" why-type explanation go a long way towards increasing user comfort.
[+] [-] __jal|9 years ago|reply
My feeling is that the businesses and other nosy APs on my way to work and along other corridors I walk can review/keep automated logs of my comings and goings when they establish an API allowing me access to me theirs.
And this is reason #643 for why I've deleted Google Maps, only use Gmail accounts as spam-buckets, use DDG, and generally have mostly cut Google out of my life. I started with an iPhone before Android existed, so I can't say they chased me away, but $%&#, my girlfriend doesn't need to know that much detail about my life; why on earth would I pay good money to send it to Google?
[+] [-] tracker1|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] xg15|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rtpg|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] leephillips|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] HNSucksAss|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ChuckMcM|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hyperpallium|9 years ago|reply
By default, Android 5 lollipop constantly scans wifi (draining battery), and the toggle-off is hidden in some menus.
[+] [-] hammock|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MatthewWilkes|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whocomments|9 years ago|reply
Did he figure out if it the Google location tracking or the McDonald's food?
:)
[+] [-] Psilidae|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lern_too_spel|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mtgx|9 years ago|reply
https://www.reddit.com/r/blackberry/comments/3s26ym/priv_own...
Google Play Services probably does it so that all Android in-app ads can use the location as well through it.
I doubt this is very legal in the EU, as the user hasn't given "explicit consent" for this. It might be worth mentioning it to @vestager on Twitter, who's already been lining up official antitrust charges against Google.
[+] [-] shostack|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] totalZero|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] darren_|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomc1985|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] imglorp|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tdkl|9 years ago|reply
Google Play Services are a trojan horse and a mobile device battery murderer. It takes away the power over your device. Have issues with it? Tough luck, if you'll downgrade, it'll be updated back automatically.
I want Android before 2012 back and not this proprietary fuckup.
[+] [-] fowlerpower|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] topbanana|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] angryasian|9 years ago|reply
They can use information like GPS, ip address and cell towers. So I don't know why this clickbait article is just pointing out these two google apps.
[+] [-] lisper|9 years ago|reply
Seriously?
> Google knows your location,
Yes, that's the issue: you can no longer deny Google the ability to know your location as long as either Maps or Play is installed.
> your phone provider knows your location without asking
First, Google is not my phone provider, and second, my provider only has access to cell tower info, not GPS info. GPS info is much more precise than tower info, and it's obviously not possible to deny cell tower info to the provider.
> and probably many other apps that you've given location access to knows where your location is.
The key phrase there being "that you have given access to". You cannot turn off access to Maps and Play and more. That's the problem.
[+] [-] Grue3|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] babebridou|9 years ago|reply
Today, 6 hours since the full charge I'm looking again at the battery screen: 38% battery left.
16% Chrome (Background CPU: 1min 24s, Foreground CPU: 16s, GSM: 2h36min 58s)
16% Google Play Store (Total CPU: 10s, GPS: 6h 20min 6s, GSM: 1min28s)
6% Screen
4% Android system
Chrome is most surprising, as it's not usually there. I did a single web search three hours ago though. The phone is idle all day otherwise. There's something rotten in the mobile software industry that's literally making our pockets warm for no good reason.
Dear Google, please at least be a good citizen in your own ecosystem.
[+] [-] guelo|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mark_l_watson|9 years ago|reply
I thought the article would be about tracking via wifi use, which they probably do.
[+] [-] blihp|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] overcast|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] detaro|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chipperyman573|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adrianlmm|9 years ago|reply
To me? it is a desition that makes want not to use Android.
[+] [-] kevin_thibedeau|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] okket|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] EJTH|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cosfoo|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] helthanatos|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lern_too_spel|9 years ago|reply
McDonald's uses a beacon protocol to suggest downloading an app without using location data.
This security researcher just doesn't understand anything about his phone.