I'm really surprised by the negative reactions to the context bar. Does everyone really have memorized what all 12 function keys do in every app they use? I think this could tremendously help usability for pretty much every application other than my IDE, since I do have those memorized.
Being able to hit a function key without looking? I may be able to to touch type. But I've never trusted myself to hit a function key blindly.
I will say. Stepping through code could be difficult. Where I repeatedly am stepping over lines while looking at the screen. I imagine my finger could drift. Couldn't say without using it, but I imagine I would keep one finger on a number to ground my hand while tapping step over or step in.
Yes, I touch-type function keys. And having used the X1 Carbon 2nd generation, I hated the "touch-strip" function keys, both because they have no boundaries between keys and because they have no tactile feedback when pressing.
The "context bar" seems like a huge win for people who look at the keyboard (who do comprise a huge fraction of the market), and a huge loss for touch-typists.
That said, I also don't use that many function keys, and I've slowly started remapping the keys I care about to other key combinations. In practice, I care about a few sets of function keys, most notably F11/F12 (commonly used for fullscreen, which I've now remapped to Super-F), and F4 (Alt-F4 to close applications, for which I've now trained my fingers to use Ctrl-W or Ctrl-Q and report bugs on the occasional application that doesn't accept those).
You haven't lived until you've used Apptivate[0] to map the function keys to your most commonly used apps (I think with them "inverted" so you don't need to hold "fn"). I have F1 -> Finder, F2 -> Postico, F3 -> Chrome, F4 -> Sublime, F5 -> iTerm2, and can touch type each of them. It feels great to easily flip between those apps as necessary. It's like Cmd+Tab but goes to exactly the correct application each time.
I'll still probably get one of these MacBook Pros eventually, but the lack of F1 buttons is a loss.
> Does everyone really have memorized what all 12 function keys do in every app they use?
I use IntelliJ Idea, Google Chrome Developer Console, World of Warcraft and those applications make heavy use of F-buttons. At work I usually use large monitor and external keyboard, so I probably could use this notebook anyway, but F-buttons for me are extremely important and using notebook without external keyboard would be a huge headache.
F9 is toggle breakpoint. F10 is step over. F11 is step into. F12 is step out-of. That's all that's important and Apple can blow me if they think I'm going to map those to something else.
Actually, doing things like stepping through code might be made easier. Since the key positions can be remapped, you could split the bar into 3 big "keys" - back / step / forward. Or maybe even do something like pressing harder to step continuously through code.
I think, with a little imagination, this could be a really good thing. I'm a touch typist but generally I have to look at the function keys when I need them. If they could be remapped on the fly for different programs, WiFi networks, etc. then it would make things much easier. How about a "boss" button when playing a game? Or a button to kill all sound output when your in Chrome?
I'm sure there are a lot of folks on both sides, though, so I'll reserve judgement on whether removing F keys in favor of context-aware touch keys is a good idea or not.
However, I do use them frequently every day, so I'm skeptical. A pricy laptop without F keys doesn't appear to be a 'Pro' offering to me.
I don't really understand the brouhaha either, unless my assumption is wrong that an opt-out option will be given for context based remapping on an app-by-app basis if not system wide? Surely, there will be "hacks" to allow things like REALLY BIG F KEYS ALWAYS ON skin, etc.
The bar makes sense for people who look at the keyboard to type, otherwise it makes no sense. Where it might make sense is if it were still physical keys but you could customize the letters etc on them and generally just change how they function. Which is a concept that has been around since 2004ish. To me this is a cheap way for Apple to have a touchscreen without having a touchscreen as the actual screen. Unless they show some crazy functionality, the I don't get it. Even the "touch ID" thing is sort of a "why?" for me when you have Windows Hello using your face as the password.
> Being able to hit a function key without looking? I may be able to to touch type. But I've never trusted myself to hit a function key blindly.
Try it. Just in your IDE, since that's the only place you use them anyway. It's easy enough once you get used to it, just like touch typing in general.
"other than my IDE, since I do have those memorized". How do you do this ? I use Xcode and Intellij and it's a PITA to remember the function key mappings while switching between the two. That said I'm not sure how this context bar will solve that though.
Another example of Apple trying to please the masses but pushing over developers. It's silly to think that the function keys and the ESC keys are used so little that they can be removed altogether. Agree with others in the discussion that such touch sensitive regions are largely useless besides the bling factor.
Also, what about the controls like screen and keyboard brightness or volume controls? Where do those go to?
I use a Macbook Pro 2015 and I don't think I'll be upgrading to the new one, especially if the specs are nearly similar.
Why Apple, Why do you insist on going against the standards on practically EVERYTHING? There has to be some method behind the madness.
>> I use a Macbook Pro 2015 and I don't think I'll be upgrading to the new one, especially if the specs are nearly similar.
Seriously? I'm on a 2013, and the specs of the latest machine are already "nearly similar". I have factory SSD flash storage and 16 GB of RAM. The CPU and GPU upgrades haven't been remotely worth upgrading to.
How can you be on a 2015 MacBook, talking about upgrading to a 2016? Nobody cares whether you own the latest gadget; upgrades should wait at least 2, usually 3-4 years. I'm not talking about the severe case of frugality (use the same laptop for at least 8 years until it dies!). Just basic common sense.
Some developers. Neither Emacs nor Vim use the function keys to any significant extent. Relatively rarely-used stuff like screen brightness and volume control seem like the obvious things to put on a multi-function OLED bar.
Perhaps the `fn` key will remain, and switch the bar into a mode that has screen brightness, keyboard brightness, volume, etc. I think that would work ok, but yeah, it's a shame about Esc.
I actually think this is excellent for developers as well – they are among the people who most strive to do everything by keyboard, but its really quite hard to remember all useful shortcuts of multiple editors/browsers etc.
I'd love the next generation to have tactile feedback, or maybe at some point to go full-on single-key OLED like that concept that went around a couple of years ago. But depending on the APIs, this may already be quite useful.
"It's silly to think that the function keys and the ESC keys are used so little that they can be removed altogether."
Not on macOS, at least for the Fn keys. Having a context aware row of buttons that will actually give some cue as to what they do, rather than some random, generic name will probably see those buttons get much more use than they currently do.
Unfortunately, it looks a bit like they're going with the ultra-low key travel keyboards on these new models. Very disappointed to see this. I don't understand why Apple thinks its users want this.
So much complaining about something that we didn't even yet seen in action. Guys from Apple are not that stupid to remove f1-12 keys and put something completely useless and UX unfriendly, give them a chance of showing it first and then complain.
And all the other talk about ports, magsafe and other stuff that are just guesses, why do you complain about something that is not even confirmed?
Lenovo tried this in the 2nd generation of the carbon X1 and swiftly went back to the traditional F keys in gen 3. I had to use one of those for a short while, it was highly unpleasant.
I once owned a Dell laptop that used a strip of touch-sensitive regions for volume and media control. In practice they were completely useless, because without looking, it just felt like one continuous bar with nothing differentiating the buttons, so the lack of any tactile feedback made it impossible to use those "buttons" without looking at them. In my 4 years of owning that laptop, I was never able to build any muscle memory for hitting those buttons. I'm worried that the same will be true of this magic toolbar.
In practice they were completely useless, because without looking, it just felt like one continuous bar with nothing differentiating the buttons
With Escape at the extreme left top, it should be possible to differentiate that stop by feel. I'll have to try it when it gets into the store. In the meantime, I'm still very happy with my 2012 MBP.
I haven't seen anyone working on a screen+touch surface that can be be programmed to change physical texture per pixel such that you can for instance raise the pixels forming the border of an onscreen button allowing the user to feel it without having to look at the screen.
I've had Macbooks for about a decade, and I'm excited about these changes. The OLED bar is kind of gimmicky, but OS X apps (unlike Windows ones), don't really use the function keys much. The MB keyboard is good--what it lacks in key travel it more than makes up for in key stability. Also, good riddance to Magsafe. The worst part of the Macbook experience is Apple's incredibly fragile and shitty chargers/cables. Being able to use off-the-shelf braided USB-C cables is going to be awesome.
Why does Apple still insist on such large bezels when the industry is shifting away from those for displays?
Rather than potentially usable display area we have more large bezels, yet again.
Take the 12" Mac for instance - Apple had no problem shrinking the bottom half of the computer yet retained the large bezels, whereas they could've utilized the area to place a larger display panel in while retaining the same footprint. The resulting incongruence looks odd IMO.
I don't mind this too much, although I do use the escape key a lot while programming or doing other things, so that will take some getting used to if I end up going with that new form factor (and if they don't release a laptop that has physical keys there as well). In fact, if they do provide tactile sensations ala the keyboard in the MacBook or the TouchID sensor in the iPhone 7, it might be better because the keys can be visually mapped.
I'm unsure if they're removing the other ports, such as MagSafe and the SD card port, but I hope they don't. I wouldn't mind having to buy a dongle for HDMI output since I use it so rarely, but I do use the SD card slot semi occasionally as a photographer, and I don't see the advantage of USB-C over MagSafe. Additionally, using USB-C could open up non-tech savvy users to even more issues than the current fake/non-approved MagSafe power bricks being sold on Amazon etc.
I was having a hard enough time with the AMD graphics rumors in lieu of the awesomeness going on right now with the 1060/1070 in laptops, but damn apple, way to throw in some real crazy with axing the escape key
Apart from the lack of the Escape and function keys, I'm kinda bothered about the keyboard. It seems the MacBook Pro has the butterfly keys. I really hoped they won't use the butterfly keys on the MBP.
Well, it's just a leaked image, so can't draw too many conclusions out of it I guess.
So I have the unenviable position of having to support a C++ application with Visual Studio as the build tool. I use a Mac and VMware. Does that mean working within Visual Studio is going to be a lot harder given the Func keys are gone?
So, who's going to be first with an after-market "bumpy" "screensaver" appliqué for this, to simulate at least to some degree a "key texture"?
Alternatively, will/could it (at some point) have localized haptic feedback?
P.S. I'd like to see some "edge-on" photographs that show whether and to what extent the relative exposure/relief of the top row of keys and the bar cause the bar to "hide behind" the higher relief of the keys, making it more difficult to touch without triggering one of those keys, particularly for a touch-typist or someone hitting the bar frequently.
I'm fine with the USB-C ports and buying a new set of cables but I'm not sure about the Magic Toolbar. I frequently use the F keys for shortcuts in my IDE, might be painful to adjust to this.
Edit: The USB-C ports are actually a great feature for me, I plan to buy a monitor with USB-C that can both act as an USB hub, charge the Macbook and use the USB-C cable to receive the video data. (all by using a single cable)
I'll then have one of these monitors both at home and in the office.
Lenovo did this to ThinkPads. They backed down. Apple will do this. They will be heralded as true innovators, every laptop maker, including Lenovo will copy them and thus we get further from usable laptop keyboard by another step.
[+] [-] hn_user2|9 years ago|reply
Being able to hit a function key without looking? I may be able to to touch type. But I've never trusted myself to hit a function key blindly.
I will say. Stepping through code could be difficult. Where I repeatedly am stepping over lines while looking at the screen. I imagine my finger could drift. Couldn't say without using it, but I imagine I would keep one finger on a number to ground my hand while tapping step over or step in.
[+] [-] JoshTriplett|9 years ago|reply
The "context bar" seems like a huge win for people who look at the keyboard (who do comprise a huge fraction of the market), and a huge loss for touch-typists.
That said, I also don't use that many function keys, and I've slowly started remapping the keys I care about to other key combinations. In practice, I care about a few sets of function keys, most notably F11/F12 (commonly used for fullscreen, which I've now remapped to Super-F), and F4 (Alt-F4 to close applications, for which I've now trained my fingers to use Ctrl-W or Ctrl-Q and report bugs on the occasional application that doesn't accept those).
[+] [-] losvedir|9 years ago|reply
I'll still probably get one of these MacBook Pros eventually, but the lack of F1 buttons is a loss.
[0] http://www.apptivateapp.com/
[+] [-] vbezhenar|9 years ago|reply
I use IntelliJ Idea, Google Chrome Developer Console, World of Warcraft and those applications make heavy use of F-buttons. At work I usually use large monitor and external keyboard, so I probably could use this notebook anyway, but F-buttons for me are extremely important and using notebook without external keyboard would be a huge headache.
[+] [-] CountSessine|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Corrado|9 years ago|reply
I think, with a little imagination, this could be a really good thing. I'm a touch typist but generally I have to look at the function keys when I need them. If they could be remapped on the fly for different programs, WiFi networks, etc. then it would make things much easier. How about a "boss" button when playing a game? Or a button to kill all sound output when your in Chrome?
[+] [-] extra88|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dikaiosune|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dragonshed|9 years ago|reply
However, I do use them frequently every day, so I'm skeptical. A pricy laptop without F keys doesn't appear to be a 'Pro' offering to me.
[+] [-] pjwal|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] partiallypro|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lmm|9 years ago|reply
Try it. Just in your IDE, since that's the only place you use them anyway. It's easy enough once you get used to it, just like touch typing in general.
[+] [-] deepGem|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] weavie|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ryanbertrand|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] secfirstmd|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] duaneb|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] madmax108|9 years ago|reply
Also, what about the controls like screen and keyboard brightness or volume controls? Where do those go to?
I use a Macbook Pro 2015 and I don't think I'll be upgrading to the new one, especially if the specs are nearly similar.
Why Apple, Why do you insist on going against the standards on practically EVERYTHING? There has to be some method behind the madness.
[+] [-] developer2|9 years ago|reply
Seriously? I'm on a 2013, and the specs of the latest machine are already "nearly similar". I have factory SSD flash storage and 16 GB of RAM. The CPU and GPU upgrades haven't been remotely worth upgrading to.
How can you be on a 2015 MacBook, talking about upgrading to a 2016? Nobody cares whether you own the latest gadget; upgrades should wait at least 2, usually 3-4 years. I'm not talking about the severe case of frugality (use the same laptop for at least 8 years until it dies!). Just basic common sense.
[+] [-] rayiner|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] draw_down|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] matt4077|9 years ago|reply
I'd love the next generation to have tactile feedback, or maybe at some point to go full-on single-key OLED like that concept that went around a couple of years ago. But depending on the APIs, this may already be quite useful.
[+] [-] st3v3r|9 years ago|reply
Not on macOS, at least for the Fn keys. Having a context aware row of buttons that will actually give some cue as to what they do, rather than some random, generic name will probably see those buttons get much more use than they currently do.
[+] [-] nicky0|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tajen|9 years ago|reply
I'll wait until Thursday to check they still ship with the Terminal app...
[+] [-] davesque|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] suprgeek|9 years ago|reply
1) The Esc and the Space keys are the two I most often use without looking - now I have to f*ing look down to hit esc?
2)What about a hard boot? Is the power key now a soft key as well? Non-removable battery and a soft reboot key do not make a good mix
3) Key press and travel distance look to be shallow - not a very satisfying experience
4) Please don't make it any thinner at the expense of ports or battery life
5) The charging port is no longer Magsafe
All in all seems a bit more gimmicky and "change for change's sake" rather than a solid upgrade
[+] [-] ssijak|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jvehent|9 years ago|reply
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-ca...
[+] [-] rcthompson|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stcredzero|9 years ago|reply
With Escape at the extreme left top, it should be possible to differentiate that stop by feel. I'll have to try it when it gets into the store. In the meantime, I'm still very happy with my 2012 MBP.
[+] [-] oxplot|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] heywire|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kirkdouglas|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 0mp|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rayiner|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] frou_dh|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] synaesthesisx|9 years ago|reply
Rather than potentially usable display area we have more large bezels, yet again.
Take the 12" Mac for instance - Apple had no problem shrinking the bottom half of the computer yet retained the large bezels, whereas they could've utilized the area to place a larger display panel in while retaining the same footprint. The resulting incongruence looks odd IMO.
Mockup of what I think the display should look like: https://i.imgur.com/BypLsSl.jpg
[+] [-] yladiz|9 years ago|reply
I'm unsure if they're removing the other ports, such as MagSafe and the SD card port, but I hope they don't. I wouldn't mind having to buy a dongle for HDMI output since I use it so rarely, but I do use the SD card slot semi occasionally as a photographer, and I don't see the advantage of USB-C over MagSafe. Additionally, using USB-C could open up non-tech savvy users to even more issues than the current fake/non-approved MagSafe power bricks being sold on Amazon etc.
[+] [-] awinder|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pixelHD|9 years ago|reply
Well, it's just a leaked image, so can't draw too many conclusions out of it I guess.
[+] [-] jasonjei|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pasbesoin|9 years ago|reply
Alternatively, will/could it (at some point) have localized haptic feedback?
P.S. I'd like to see some "edge-on" photographs that show whether and to what extent the relative exposure/relief of the top row of keys and the bar cause the bar to "hide behind" the higher relief of the keys, making it more difficult to touch without triggering one of those keys, particularly for a touch-typist or someone hitting the bar frequently.
[+] [-] dennyabraham|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bobwaycott|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] DominikR|9 years ago|reply
Edit: The USB-C ports are actually a great feature for me, I plan to buy a monitor with USB-C that can both act as an USB hub, charge the Macbook and use the USB-C cable to receive the video data. (all by using a single cable)
I'll then have one of these monitors both at home and in the office.
[+] [-] qb45|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pkamb|9 years ago|reply
https://github.com/pkamb/PowerKey
[+] [-] chx|9 years ago|reply