The article's inclusion of this quote from Tim Cook comes pretty close to summing up the whole situation:
“I think if you’re looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?”
– Tim Cook, talking about the iPad Pro
It's time to face the fact that Apple doesn't care about professionals and never has. With the release of the original Intel MacBook Pro in 2006 they created a near perfect computer that would come to dominate the market amongst developers for the next ten years. What we don't acknowledge though is that this was purely an accident. While Apple had intended to build nice hardware and a stable OS, the Unix-y nature of the OS that that helped capture the hearts of developers was never exposed in an intentional way.
What we're seeing with the new MBP is a regression back to the core Apple value that are already so prominent on the iPhone and iPad: form over function. Why have a headphone jack when you can make the bottom of the phone more symmetrical and shave 0.2 mm off the case depth? Why do you need a physical keyboard when the iPad's virtual one is just fine for writing emails? Expect more of the same on future changes to the lineup.
Given all the Apple bashing, I can not see a decent alternative being mentioned? Everybody is furious about the new Mac, where does this expectation come from?
I need a new laptop, my older MBP had some unfortunate accidents. I tried to find a better one than the new MBP. I honestly could not. This new MBP seems to be the best ever laptop I can buy at this moment. I guess it would be better if it had 32gb ram option or a newer gen CPU. Still, nothing else seems to come close.
If you don't agree, please help me with my decision:
- Unix. Linux is fine though but I prefer macOS.
- A high resolution display.
- A good, large trackpad and good software support for that.
- I can work with ~4-5 hours of battery life.
- Something portable. Been carrying this thing all day every day.
- Don't really care about graphics performance.
It wasn't an accident. Steve cared about the Mac much more than Tim does. Steve, also, understood the value for IT professionals to have an operating system that is based on Unix and offers modern commercial software, such as Photoshop et al. It's best described by this ad:
>It's time to face the fact that Apple doesn't care about professionals and never has.
and yet despite this, professionals around the world use the Macbook Pro. The user base that apple doesn't care about, and never has cared about, is "power users" - the people who have strong opinions about how their tools should look and behave. There's tons of professionals out there, in many different industries, who simply want a computer that works reliably and that they don't have to think or worry about, and that has always been the segment apple has served. They've never catered to the die-hard macbook pro fans. Function over form has never been the goal. They build laptops with broad appeal that make the compromises that work for a large number of people, and they balance form against function. And yes, sometimes that means form wins out over function.
Apple is just continuing to do what they've always done. They haven't lost their way, people have just been expecting stuff from them that was never realistic.
First, OS X isn't "Unix-y"; it literally is Unix. Second, you actually can say with a straight face that the MBP 2006 design was "purely an accident"? No. It wasn't. It was the result of hundreds of small and correct choices, not all of which were obvious at the time.
How precisely is the new MBP a regression? I think it's telling that you cited two examples to back this up—but oddly, neither of them were about the MB Pro. They were about iOS devices.
> "It's time to face the fact that Apple doesn't care about professionals and never has."
I'm a professional, and the MacBook Pro continues to suit my needs extremely well. Perhaps the problem is that "professional" is too vague a term to have any useful meaning in this context. If you mean developers, fine, but I'm also a developer and the MacBook Pro continues to suit my needs extremely well. What exactly is the use case that the new MacBooks fails at, and is this a widespread problem among all professionals, all developers, or a particular segment of developers?
Criticisms of the iPhone are entirely valid. I upgraded from the 6s to the 7 yesterday through the iPhone Upgrade Program. I've only noticed three differences so far:
1. No headphone jack. I only brought my new iPhone 7 headphones to work today, and I can't plug them into my laptop to watch a video. >_<
2. The Capacitive touch home button. Unlike the capacitive touch trackpads, the tactile feedback for this button is not convincing or satisfying at all. It sucks.
3. They moved the camera slightly, so my existing case doesn't work.
That's it. I don't notice any improvements. It's a strict downgrade so far.
I'll reserve judgement on the new TouchBar, since I haven't had a chance to play with one. I'll say this, though, what they've done is dipped their toe into the fully programmable keyboard space: http://www.geeknaut.com/cool-computer-keyboards-2219350.html
This could be a stepping stone to a fully redrawable keyboard. Not saying I want such a thing, but it's interesting. imagine the entire keyboard surface being the TouchBar? It would suck (I think) for typing, but it would certainly differentiate itself from the iPad, and would start making for custom controls that augment the display.
In some cases I could see this as a better experience than just a pure touchscreen (though it would probably be very niche).
Anyway, even with all of the negatives you mentioned, it's still going to be the best Unix laptop out there. My dream is that HP or Dell find a backbone, and starts pitching supporting and building a perfect Linux (pick any distro really) laptop to devs, or maybe Google makes ChromeOS, that perfect OS. Until then...
> While Apple had intended to build nice hardware and a stable OS, the Unix-y nature of the OS that that helped capture the hearts of developers was never exposed in an intentional way.
No, it was pretty intentional. Apple has a history of appealing to power users for a few years, then kicking them in the nuts. First, they did it to professional artists. Then they did it to professional video editors. Now they're doing it to software developers. It's just our turn, I guess.
Doesn't anyone else remember that these early intel units had overheating problems? Later versions had GPU failures en masse and had a recall. Not to mention that pre unibody the cases were fragile and able to be bent unintentionally. The optical drives basically all failed from poor design on these units as well.
These were not as well designed as we like to remember.
I still have an early one I keep on hand to tinker with from time to time and love what they represent but let's not kid ourselves. The MacBook Pro had come a long way since then.
That said how they decided not to offer a 32GB ram offering on a MacBook Pro in 2016 is beyond me.
I think the only ones to loose are the UNIX developers that don't breath the Apple culture, as it as already before Jobs returned to Apple.
Apple developers, as it was already in the older OS versions are right at home.
Speaking of which, just check the recordings of Jobs doing NeXTSTEP related presentations on YouTube, and you see how little relevance is given to UNIX.
When Tim Cook was asked about the Mac after the iPhone event awhile back, he said something like “stay tuned”. Well, unfortunately, post-Mac-event, I am still “staying tuned” because I can’t believe that this is what they meant. How can there be nothing else in the pipeline?
A new Pro computer and Pro presentation should look something like:
- Sensible flexibility: while some “forward-looking” port like USB-C is expected, there should also be at least one present-day port. No “dongles by default” in a Pro.
- Top-line option with significantly higher maximum memory than other available machines, fastest processor options, and even “unnecessary” extras like 16-core or whatever crazy stuff is available.
- The entire presentation should focus on the damned Mac. I don’t care about your Watch or your TV because I can look those stats up. I counted, after HALF AN HOUR he started to mention the Mac. Come on.
- Every demo should focus on PRO features. I don’t want to see a single consumer item. Show me the crazy performance comparisons of years past. Take the latest, greatest apps and make them scream on stage.
- The web site for a Pro computer should be free of animations, with a big fat “Tech Specs” button in large print at the top that links to an ordinary white paper and some performance comparison tables. (The Mac Pro web site has always failed me; took forever to figure out what the thing could even do.)
Show me the crazy performance comparisons of years past.
Take the latest, greatest apps and make them scream on
stage.
Problem is they decided two things and remain committed:
1) Touch has no place on PC screens
2) GPUs aren't that big a deal
Intel has only been able to make the slightest performance improvements for years now, combined effect is now Apple get no 'free upgrades' invented by the PC industry to integrate cause all the cool stuff coming out on that side is touch, VR and AR.
I've been reading (and editing and publishing) the same "When will Apple once again start caring about high-end creative professionals who put serious demands on their machines?" article for over a decade, now.
I mean, I agree with a lot of what's in this piece. But this idea of the Mac as cutting-edge creative powerhouse with tons of horsepower under the hood is a fantasy that dates back to the PPC/RISC days.
Every now and then Apple comes out with a new Mac Pro design, or the XServe, or another new Mac Pro design, or manages to cram a leading-edge CPU or GPU into one of their computers. But those rare moments of genuine high-end leadership are the exception, rather than the rule.
All of Apple's innovation eggs are in the iOS basket now. All of them. And before that they were in the "creatives who work out of Starbucks" basket. They haven't been in the "I need to crunch serious numbers to make cool things" basket since before the Cold War ended.
Apple has been a lifestyle brand for creative types and creative type wannabes, and not the heir to, say, SGI, for a very very very long time.
I think this an accurate summation of the state of things. It just took some of us longer to realize it than others.
Apple and I simply don't agree on what matters in a computer anymore. My current MacBook Pro will be my last. I've purchased a ThinkPad and am beginning to transition my work over to it.
My ThinkPad isn't the sort of machine that most people need or want, and certainly not the sort that Apple is interested in building these days, but I think it will meet my needs perfectly.
It already feels nice not needing a dongle just to plug in an Ethernet cable.
Everyone who states more or less this sentiment is stating an absolute and speaking for an entire demographic when really they should be saying:
"Apple doesn't care about a certain type of professional who happens to think just like me"
I am a professional: a web designer, a programmer, as well as a musician and occasional video editor. I make a living using my MacBook Pro. I'm typing on one right now. My life wouldn't be possible without a Mac to use for my creative profession.
I love nearly everything about the new MBPs and hope to get the 15" as soon as funds are available. I think the Touch Bar is one of the most exciting UI upgrades to macOS in a long, long time. (For reference, I like the Force Touch trackpad but I almost never use the force part of it and think Apple's really dropped the ball on that particular feature.) I can't wait until Logic Pro X supports the Touch Bar, as well as other music apps like Ableton Live.
Even the fact that Xcode, Terminal, etc. have extensive interactions on the Touch Bar is impressive. This, THIS is how you roll out a new integrated hardware/software UI feature.
Are there some issues? Sure, but what major upgrade doesn't have issues? I still remember when Apple's iOS device lineup was a mess because some devices used Lightning and others used the old 30-pin connector. Heck, the transition to Intel itself was painful back the day...it took years to get the entire Mac product line up to date with all the major software properly compiled.
The switch to USB-C/TB3 is huge...the capabilities and bandwidth of that single type of port is staggering. (I'm still in awe that the new MBP can drive not just one, but TWO 5K displays simultaneously.) Instead of being upset with Apple's changes, we should be clamoring for them to upgrade their other Macs (iMac, etc.) to USB-C as fast as humanly possible. Need a dongle or two to get through the transition period? So what? I've needed dongles for one thing or another at almost every stage of the Mac journey (FW-400 to FW-800, anyone?)
Apple has not lost their way. Perhaps they've lost the willingness to push out Mac hardware on a more frequent basis, which is a shame. But their ability to innovate and come out with a great product when the time is right should not be up for debate.
This. This is me in a nutshell. In fact, I just ordered the new 13", with touch pad. I never use the F-keys and am genuinely excited by the touch pad - I think it's going to be one of those features that after the fact you just can't believe why no one did it earlier. I love touch id on my iPhone, and can't wait to use it on my Mac – it'll obsolete my Yubikey. This feature alone would be enough to get me to upgrade.
To me, the MBP I just ordered will pay for itself in no time, so it was a no brainer for me.
To me, the MBP just works, often in really subtle ways too that I just don't notice until I'm not on a Mac.
To me, my current MBP is the best laptop I could possibly have. When I bought it, I even said that I don't even know how Apple could possibly top it. It's the best computer I've ever used, my livelihood depends on it. I probably could do the same things with other hardware, and other software – but man, it just works and that's worth every premium I paid for it.
To each their own but to me, Apple just made this thing that couldn't possibly be better, better.
> The switch to USB-C/TB3 is huge...the capabilities and bandwidth of that single type of port is staggering.
"All USB-C/TB3" is going to be a disaster in the short term and nobody with an investment in external peripherals is going to move for at least a year, maybe two. This ALONE would make me sit this refresh out. Apple's history with driver stability lately has been not good.
I'm also skeptical about how "professionally" you use your laptop.
Even TB2 on the previous gen Macbook Pro was unstable when you plugged in an audio interface and a 4K monitor. I had to move the 4K monitor to the HDMI port so that the audio interface wasn't interfered with.
The problem is that things that use bandwidth interfere with things that die based upon latency.
Do you do a lot of your creative work right at the MBP keyboard/touchpad? I can't imagine doing too much highly creative/productive work without an external monitor and peripherals. I wonder if they will be building an external keyboard with the Touch Bar.
There are indeed many professionals that don't need high specs, and could even do their work on a 12" MacBook or iPad pro.
The Pro in MBP refers not to them, but rather to those needing powerful CPUs, GPUs, large amounts of memory and compatibility with various hardware. I'd have added upgradeability, but the MBP has been a complete failure at that for a long time.
Who defines "pro" like that? The internet. It became a synonym for heavy duty workloads.
I've been reading the comments on this thread and others on HN. I'm equally dismayed by the 'New Normal' with regards to Apple's offering, the bizarre design decisions (remove the USBs on the base Macbook, 16GB max RAM on the new Pros while Lenovo has been offering 32, the gimmicky top bar that will change the world, etc.)
However, to keep in mind here is that for us techies (and for design folks) Macbooks seem as standard as ranger boots in the military, but for the rest of the world, it's a vicious fight for market share and Apple is near the bottom of the 'big ones'. For one of the wealthiest companies in the world, Apple is still behind HP, Dell, Lenovo, even Acer and ASUS in marketshare! [Source: http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/05/11/lower-macbook-sale...]
So, it's not a surprise that our needs are cast aside in the grander business scheme of capturing wider audience by casting a wider net. There's no need to psychoanalyze Tim Cook and pray for the Second Coming of Jobs. It's the widening of the net that we're experiencing as pain.
> So, it's not a surprise that our needs are cast aside in the grander business scheme of capturing wider audience by casting a wider net.
They just canned their cheapest notebook, the Macbook Air 11" and bumped the price on their other models by a few $100. On top of that the only port on their new notebooks is Thunderbolt 3.
What sort of mass market appeal are they going for exactly?
That doesn't make sense. Market share is only one metric; profits have been more important for Apple in most cases. Apple is well behind in market share on mobile too, but the profit they make on phones is substantially more. I think I remember reading that they make more profit on the iPhone than all of the other major android manufacturers put together. That is not to say that there aren't signs of Apple's growth stagnating, but to judge success on market share alone is a bit silly.
Also, what about this new MacBook Pro is "mass market" ? I don't know a lot of people that today will spend $2500+ on a computer if they don't need to spend that much. So the article has a point -- who is this laptop for? It's in the price point for "professionals" but what professionals are they going after? It's not clear at all. Losing the function row and most importantly, the escape key, seemed completely unnecessary.
Almost as soon as I heard the sad news about Steve Jobs I feared this would happen. It also coincides with the 15-year cycle that seems to happen in tech and certain financial markets. Let's face it, Apple can't be top dog forever. Google has lasted longer than it should have. And if I were Zuckerberg I'd be concerned what's around the corner.
And without the visionary leadership of a Jobs, a Gates, a whoever, these companies stop innovating and change into something else. At least this is the second time round for Apple. But I fear that without Jobs there may be no way back.
That's why Zuck has been very aggressive with acquisitions, to future proof the company. He's bought two of his biggest competitors, Instagram and Whatsapp, and Oculus which could be the future. I'm pretty pleased with his corporate foresight.
When Steve Jobs died, Apple was worth $300 billion. Now it is worth $600 billion.
So far, not only did Tim Cook live up to the expectations in Apple under Jobs (which would mean to keep the company value at the same level) but he even overperformed 100%.
Apple should've made Elon Musk its CEO as soon as it could after Steve Jobs passed away. Now it's likely too late with the merger of Tesla and Solar City happening, and the merged company being on an explosive growth path. Musk is also likely too busy now with SpaceX's ITS system and the landing on Mars to worry about making great Macs and iPhones.
This surely wasn't an event that deserves 'hello' line. Unless Apple starts using 'hello' each year from now on it should be reserved for truly earth shattering visionary events.
Touch Bar is ergonomic catastrophe. Tiny flat screen hidden behind the keys -- at the event all the people demonstrating Touch Bar had to stand, lean over keyboard and crouch in order to use it. Doing that while sitting and doing some serious work is usability nightmare.
For added irony, the opening ad was all about accessibility. I would love to see how the hell that touch bar is going to be a good accessibility experience.
The whining and moaning about dongles is exactly what people said about the original iMac and USB.
If you think Apple is going to make room for your old crusty ports when there is a new standard you're crazy and haven't paid any attention to Apple at all.
Here's a question: When did HN lose the ability to appreciate awesome technology? Thunderbolt 3 is awesome. The new MBP has four ports. Each port can charge the laptop, supply 15w of power to devices, supports USB 3, a 5K 16bpp deep color display at 60hz (!!), and extends the PCI Express bus to external devices.
Yes the transition period will be annoying.
Once we get there it will be amazing. TB3 is what I've been wanting out of a connector for a long time. One sturdy, reversible, and universal plug that handles everything in a backwards-compatible way.
Stockholm syndrome. That's what it is. If you have memorized that F5 is step (over, into, who knows?) then congratulations, you have passed a test that no one should have to take. Do you know about the slide rule or log tables? The function keys are not a good interface to anything. Good riddance.
Now, what are the escape sequences to access the Touch Bar from the Terminal so I can add some much needed usability to emacs/vi?
Tim Cook seems to be one of those CEOs who sits in his office doesn't participate in the innovation process, while Jobs took a more hands on approach to drive innovations to its ultimate form.
I can't imagine someone presenting this "touchbar" bullspit to Jobs and not getting fired right away for such a dumb idea.
> At the iPhone event in September, Apple told the world that headphone jacks were dead because wireless headphones are superior — so why is there a headphone jack on the Mac?
Because Macs are much larger than iPhones, so the trade-off in battery life/other components is less significant than on an iPhone.
Back when Steve Jobs was around, there used to be so much talk about how well and tightly he controlled the media. Guaranteeing he would have many positive stories out there on the day of launch. People would also talk about the Reality Distortion Field. And Gruber would right some well-logicked defense of criticism.
Where is the positive PR army? I did not see one single positive story about the recent announcements, following a short Google search!
There are plenty of professionals buying Mac who are not the same customer type as most of the professionals here. They can't touch type. Arguably they have always been Apple's core market.
For ones saying they don't care about professionals, it's likely to remain a strong, well-designed and productive machine. Maybe a few will leave the walled garden due to this, but I think as many or more will appreciate it.
I bought a Macbook Pro in 2015 and I really, really had to train myself not to touch the display, despite no previous laptop having a touch display in my whole life. Don't ask me why, but the Macbook display already feels like it should be touchable for years it seems.
All this "why isn't it better" foot-stomping. "Why isn't it as good as Microsoft" more foot-stomping and perhaps even some sulking?
I don't really get the emotional expectations people drum up about what the tech giants should or shouldn't be doing with new releases.
I like it when computers last years and years and fulfill a purpose for our life and work-life. If your Mac is from all the way back in 2012, don't feel bad! If it does what you need then keep it and ignore the latest product releases this year. Next year might have something more to your liking.
I think people waited a long time for a refresh of that product line and now that it didn't pan out, they're frustrated because they don't know what their next computer will be or if there even is one they'll like as much as what they have now.
People don't suddenly need a new computer right now just because these were announced, but will all these laptops from 2012 last until 2020 when the next refresh might happen?
Apple is turning into the dongle company. The number of devices they have that require adapter cable or dongle just to use existing accessories if not current products is astounding.
The thing that is telling for me is that they didn't even look at the 2nd generation thinkpad carbon [0] which also had 'adaptive keys' and was for 'pros.' Lenovo reverted in their 3rd and 4th generations because users did not like it, and it was not as useful as the function keys.
Apparently Apple is like a child and can only learn from their own mistakes, if at all.
My company-issued Lenovo X1 Carbon 2 has a touchbar. I hate it because it's so poorly executed. If I want to use a Function key, I have to cycle through the options to get to the Function key ... uhh ... functionality.
What's that? I need to disable/enable wireless adapter? Oh! Just cycle through a few screens and touch the utility panel.
Oh no!!!! I forgot to mute my speakers and now I have to cycle through the panels to get to my speaker mute button.
I can't really tell how Apple did theirs, but I sure hope that they did a better job than Lenovo.
I feel like Apple is slowly stripping all of the small but delightful "details" from their products: no more glowing apple logo (completely useless, sure, but iconic at this point), no more magsafe (how many times have you tripped on the cable only to realize it was all good -- thanks magsafe!)
To me, these "details" seem to be the little things that contribute to so many people creating deep emotional connections with otherwise cold metal objects.
At this pace, not too long from now, cold metal will be all that's left.
I started designing on a Mac II in the late 80s during the emergence of desktop publishing and over the years it became the defacto designer's tool. I have no idea what happened, but apple forgot where they came from and have completely lost touch with their creative roots. That MS have swooped in and delivered what has to be the most exciting design tool I've seen in over a decade only punctuates how bad things have become at Apple.
I can see them hemorrhaging all but their most hardcore customers in the next year.
[+] [-] brandur|9 years ago|reply
“I think if you’re looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?”
– Tim Cook, talking about the iPad Pro
It's time to face the fact that Apple doesn't care about professionals and never has. With the release of the original Intel MacBook Pro in 2006 they created a near perfect computer that would come to dominate the market amongst developers for the next ten years. What we don't acknowledge though is that this was purely an accident. While Apple had intended to build nice hardware and a stable OS, the Unix-y nature of the OS that that helped capture the hearts of developers was never exposed in an intentional way.
What we're seeing with the new MBP is a regression back to the core Apple value that are already so prominent on the iPhone and iPad: form over function. Why have a headphone jack when you can make the bottom of the phone more symmetrical and shave 0.2 mm off the case depth? Why do you need a physical keyboard when the iPad's virtual one is just fine for writing emails? Expect more of the same on future changes to the lineup.
[+] [-] eknkc|9 years ago|reply
I need a new laptop, my older MBP had some unfortunate accidents. I tried to find a better one than the new MBP. I honestly could not. This new MBP seems to be the best ever laptop I can buy at this moment. I guess it would be better if it had 32gb ram option or a newer gen CPU. Still, nothing else seems to come close.
If you don't agree, please help me with my decision:
Any suggestions?[+] [-] terhechte|9 years ago|reply
http://forums.macrumors.com/attachments/apple_unix_ad-s-jpg....
[+] [-] notatoad|9 years ago|reply
and yet despite this, professionals around the world use the Macbook Pro. The user base that apple doesn't care about, and never has cared about, is "power users" - the people who have strong opinions about how their tools should look and behave. There's tons of professionals out there, in many different industries, who simply want a computer that works reliably and that they don't have to think or worry about, and that has always been the segment apple has served. They've never catered to the die-hard macbook pro fans. Function over form has never been the goal. They build laptops with broad appeal that make the compromises that work for a large number of people, and they balance form against function. And yes, sometimes that means form wins out over function.
Apple is just continuing to do what they've always done. They haven't lost their way, people have just been expecting stuff from them that was never realistic.
[+] [-] Bud|9 years ago|reply
How precisely is the new MBP a regression? I think it's telling that you cited two examples to back this up—but oddly, neither of them were about the MB Pro. They were about iOS devices.
[+] [-] nartsbtaa|9 years ago|reply
I'm a professional, and the MacBook Pro continues to suit my needs extremely well. Perhaps the problem is that "professional" is too vague a term to have any useful meaning in this context. If you mean developers, fine, but I'm also a developer and the MacBook Pro continues to suit my needs extremely well. What exactly is the use case that the new MacBooks fails at, and is this a widespread problem among all professionals, all developers, or a particular segment of developers?
Criticisms of the iPhone are entirely valid. I upgraded from the 6s to the 7 yesterday through the iPhone Upgrade Program. I've only noticed three differences so far:
1. No headphone jack. I only brought my new iPhone 7 headphones to work today, and I can't plug them into my laptop to watch a video. >_<
2. The Capacitive touch home button. Unlike the capacitive touch trackpads, the tactile feedback for this button is not convincing or satisfying at all. It sucks.
3. They moved the camera slightly, so my existing case doesn't work.
That's it. I don't notice any improvements. It's a strict downgrade so far.
[+] [-] bluejekyll|9 years ago|reply
I'll reserve judgement on the new TouchBar, since I haven't had a chance to play with one. I'll say this, though, what they've done is dipped their toe into the fully programmable keyboard space: http://www.geeknaut.com/cool-computer-keyboards-2219350.html
This could be a stepping stone to a fully redrawable keyboard. Not saying I want such a thing, but it's interesting. imagine the entire keyboard surface being the TouchBar? It would suck (I think) for typing, but it would certainly differentiate itself from the iPad, and would start making for custom controls that augment the display.
In some cases I could see this as a better experience than just a pure touchscreen (though it would probably be very niche).
Anyway, even with all of the negatives you mentioned, it's still going to be the best Unix laptop out there. My dream is that HP or Dell find a backbone, and starts pitching supporting and building a perfect Linux (pick any distro really) laptop to devs, or maybe Google makes ChromeOS, that perfect OS. Until then...
[+] [-] lj3|9 years ago|reply
No, it was pretty intentional. Apple has a history of appealing to power users for a few years, then kicking them in the nuts. First, they did it to professional artists. Then they did it to professional video editors. Now they're doing it to software developers. It's just our turn, I guess.
[+] [-] godzillabrennus|9 years ago|reply
These were not as well designed as we like to remember.
I still have an early one I keep on hand to tinker with from time to time and love what they represent but let's not kid ourselves. The MacBook Pro had come a long way since then.
That said how they decided not to offer a 32GB ram offering on a MacBook Pro in 2016 is beyond me.
[+] [-] beamatronic|9 years ago|reply
What does Johnny Ive do his work on? Does Tim Cook use an iPad Pro exclusively?
[+] [-] pjmlp|9 years ago|reply
Apple developers, as it was already in the older OS versions are right at home.
Speaking of which, just check the recordings of Jobs doing NeXTSTEP related presentations on YouTube, and you see how little relevance is given to UNIX.
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] makecheck|9 years ago|reply
A new Pro computer and Pro presentation should look something like:
- Sensible flexibility: while some “forward-looking” port like USB-C is expected, there should also be at least one present-day port. No “dongles by default” in a Pro.
- Top-line option with significantly higher maximum memory than other available machines, fastest processor options, and even “unnecessary” extras like 16-core or whatever crazy stuff is available.
- The entire presentation should focus on the damned Mac. I don’t care about your Watch or your TV because I can look those stats up. I counted, after HALF AN HOUR he started to mention the Mac. Come on.
- Every demo should focus on PRO features. I don’t want to see a single consumer item. Show me the crazy performance comparisons of years past. Take the latest, greatest apps and make them scream on stage.
- The web site for a Pro computer should be free of animations, with a big fat “Tech Specs” button in large print at the top that links to an ordinary white paper and some performance comparison tables. (The Mac Pro web site has always failed me; took forever to figure out what the thing could even do.)
[+] [-] benologist|9 years ago|reply
1) Touch has no place on PC screens
2) GPUs aren't that big a deal
Intel has only been able to make the slightest performance improvements for years now, combined effect is now Apple get no 'free upgrades' invented by the PC industry to integrate cause all the cool stuff coming out on that side is touch, VR and AR.
[+] [-] jonstokes|9 years ago|reply
I mean, I agree with a lot of what's in this piece. But this idea of the Mac as cutting-edge creative powerhouse with tons of horsepower under the hood is a fantasy that dates back to the PPC/RISC days.
Every now and then Apple comes out with a new Mac Pro design, or the XServe, or another new Mac Pro design, or manages to cram a leading-edge CPU or GPU into one of their computers. But those rare moments of genuine high-end leadership are the exception, rather than the rule.
All of Apple's innovation eggs are in the iOS basket now. All of them. And before that they were in the "creatives who work out of Starbucks" basket. They haven't been in the "I need to crunch serious numbers to make cool things" basket since before the Cold War ended.
Apple has been a lifestyle brand for creative types and creative type wannabes, and not the heir to, say, SGI, for a very very very long time.
[+] [-] symfoniq|9 years ago|reply
Apple and I simply don't agree on what matters in a computer anymore. My current MacBook Pro will be my last. I've purchased a ThinkPad and am beginning to transition my work over to it.
My ThinkPad isn't the sort of machine that most people need or want, and certainly not the sort that Apple is interested in building these days, but I think it will meet my needs perfectly.
It already feels nice not needing a dongle just to plug in an Ethernet cable.
[+] [-] pinaceae|9 years ago|reply
see for yourself - sit down in any airport lounge in big hubs and observe.
i have seen so many presentations go haywire because windows machines started updates, etc - execs got seriously tired of that shit.
the touchbar, if paired with the Ribbon interface in MS Office, is going after exactly that user group. and they have the money.
see also IBM's press release this week how Macs have far better TCO than windows machines within IBM (50k Macs in an environment of 400k employees).
[+] [-] jaredcwhite|9 years ago|reply
Everyone who states more or less this sentiment is stating an absolute and speaking for an entire demographic when really they should be saying:
"Apple doesn't care about a certain type of professional who happens to think just like me"
I am a professional: a web designer, a programmer, as well as a musician and occasional video editor. I make a living using my MacBook Pro. I'm typing on one right now. My life wouldn't be possible without a Mac to use for my creative profession.
I love nearly everything about the new MBPs and hope to get the 15" as soon as funds are available. I think the Touch Bar is one of the most exciting UI upgrades to macOS in a long, long time. (For reference, I like the Force Touch trackpad but I almost never use the force part of it and think Apple's really dropped the ball on that particular feature.) I can't wait until Logic Pro X supports the Touch Bar, as well as other music apps like Ableton Live.
Even the fact that Xcode, Terminal, etc. have extensive interactions on the Touch Bar is impressive. This, THIS is how you roll out a new integrated hardware/software UI feature.
Are there some issues? Sure, but what major upgrade doesn't have issues? I still remember when Apple's iOS device lineup was a mess because some devices used Lightning and others used the old 30-pin connector. Heck, the transition to Intel itself was painful back the day...it took years to get the entire Mac product line up to date with all the major software properly compiled.
The switch to USB-C/TB3 is huge...the capabilities and bandwidth of that single type of port is staggering. (I'm still in awe that the new MBP can drive not just one, but TWO 5K displays simultaneously.) Instead of being upset with Apple's changes, we should be clamoring for them to upgrade their other Macs (iMac, etc.) to USB-C as fast as humanly possible. Need a dongle or two to get through the transition period? So what? I've needed dongles for one thing or another at almost every stage of the Mac journey (FW-400 to FW-800, anyone?)
Apple has not lost their way. Perhaps they've lost the willingness to push out Mac hardware on a more frequent basis, which is a shame. But their ability to innovate and come out with a great product when the time is right should not be up for debate.
[+] [-] mstade|9 years ago|reply
To me, the MBP I just ordered will pay for itself in no time, so it was a no brainer for me.
To me, the MBP just works, often in really subtle ways too that I just don't notice until I'm not on a Mac.
To me, my current MBP is the best laptop I could possibly have. When I bought it, I even said that I don't even know how Apple could possibly top it. It's the best computer I've ever used, my livelihood depends on it. I probably could do the same things with other hardware, and other software – but man, it just works and that's worth every premium I paid for it.
To each their own but to me, Apple just made this thing that couldn't possibly be better, better.
[+] [-] bsder|9 years ago|reply
"All USB-C/TB3" is going to be a disaster in the short term and nobody with an investment in external peripherals is going to move for at least a year, maybe two. This ALONE would make me sit this refresh out. Apple's history with driver stability lately has been not good.
I'm also skeptical about how "professionally" you use your laptop.
Even TB2 on the previous gen Macbook Pro was unstable when you plugged in an audio interface and a 4K monitor. I had to move the 4K monitor to the HDMI port so that the audio interface wasn't interfered with.
The problem is that things that use bandwidth interfere with things that die based upon latency.
[+] [-] j2bax|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blub|9 years ago|reply
The Pro in MBP refers not to them, but rather to those needing powerful CPUs, GPUs, large amounts of memory and compatibility with various hardware. I'd have added upgradeability, but the MBP has been a complete failure at that for a long time.
Who defines "pro" like that? The internet. It became a synonym for heavy duty workloads.
[+] [-] j2bax|9 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] mancerayder|9 years ago|reply
However, to keep in mind here is that for us techies (and for design folks) Macbooks seem as standard as ranger boots in the military, but for the rest of the world, it's a vicious fight for market share and Apple is near the bottom of the 'big ones'. For one of the wealthiest companies in the world, Apple is still behind HP, Dell, Lenovo, even Acer and ASUS in marketshare! [Source: http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/05/11/lower-macbook-sale...]
So, it's not a surprise that our needs are cast aside in the grander business scheme of capturing wider audience by casting a wider net. There's no need to psychoanalyze Tim Cook and pray for the Second Coming of Jobs. It's the widening of the net that we're experiencing as pain.
[+] [-] leonroy|9 years ago|reply
They just canned their cheapest notebook, the Macbook Air 11" and bumped the price on their other models by a few $100. On top of that the only port on their new notebooks is Thunderbolt 3.
What sort of mass market appeal are they going for exactly?
[+] [-] eeeeeeeeeeeee|9 years ago|reply
Also, what about this new MacBook Pro is "mass market" ? I don't know a lot of people that today will spend $2500+ on a computer if they don't need to spend that much. So the article has a point -- who is this laptop for? It's in the price point for "professionals" but what professionals are they going after? It's not clear at all. Losing the function row and most importantly, the escape key, seemed completely unnecessary.
[+] [-] arebop|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] basch|9 years ago|reply
the rest of the world => enterprise IT => techies
[+] [-] secstate|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 3chelon|9 years ago|reply
And without the visionary leadership of a Jobs, a Gates, a whoever, these companies stop innovating and change into something else. At least this is the second time round for Apple. But I fear that without Jobs there may be no way back.
[+] [-] marrone12|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TekMol|9 years ago|reply
So far, not only did Tim Cook live up to the expectations in Apple under Jobs (which would mean to keep the company value at the same level) but he even overperformed 100%.
[+] [-] mtgx|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] binaryapparatus|9 years ago|reply
Touch Bar is ergonomic catastrophe. Tiny flat screen hidden behind the keys -- at the event all the people demonstrating Touch Bar had to stand, lean over keyboard and crouch in order to use it. Doing that while sitting and doing some serious work is usability nightmare.
[+] [-] FireBeyond|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xenadu02|9 years ago|reply
If you think Apple is going to make room for your old crusty ports when there is a new standard you're crazy and haven't paid any attention to Apple at all.
Here's a question: When did HN lose the ability to appreciate awesome technology? Thunderbolt 3 is awesome. The new MBP has four ports. Each port can charge the laptop, supply 15w of power to devices, supports USB 3, a 5K 16bpp deep color display at 60hz (!!), and extends the PCI Express bus to external devices.
Yes the transition period will be annoying.
Once we get there it will be amazing. TB3 is what I've been wanting out of a connector for a long time. One sturdy, reversible, and universal plug that handles everything in a backwards-compatible way.
[+] [-] onedognight|9 years ago|reply
Now, what are the escape sequences to access the Touch Bar from the Terminal so I can add some much needed usability to emacs/vi?
[+] [-] sickbeard|9 years ago|reply
I can't imagine someone presenting this "touchbar" bullspit to Jobs and not getting fired right away for such a dumb idea.
[+] [-] pazimzadeh|9 years ago|reply
Because Macs are much larger than iPhones, so the trade-off in battery life/other components is less significant than on an iPhone.
[+] [-] hammock|9 years ago|reply
Where is the positive PR army? I did not see one single positive story about the recent announcements, following a short Google search!
[+] [-] sambe|9 years ago|reply
For ones saying they don't care about professionals, it's likely to remain a strong, well-designed and productive machine. Maybe a few will leave the walled garden due to this, but I think as many or more will appreciate it.
[+] [-] erikb|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] exodust|9 years ago|reply
I don't really get the emotional expectations people drum up about what the tech giants should or shouldn't be doing with new releases.
I like it when computers last years and years and fulfill a purpose for our life and work-life. If your Mac is from all the way back in 2012, don't feel bad! If it does what you need then keep it and ignore the latest product releases this year. Next year might have something more to your liking.
[+] [-] gdulli|9 years ago|reply
People don't suddenly need a new computer right now just because these were announced, but will all these laptops from 2012 last until 2020 when the next refresh might happen?
[+] [-] WillPostForFood|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Shivetya|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hyperion2010|9 years ago|reply
Apparently Apple is like a child and can only learn from their own mistakes, if at all.
0. https://www.google.com/search?q=2nd+generation+thinkpad+x1+c...
[+] [-] swasheck|9 years ago|reply
What's that? I need to disable/enable wireless adapter? Oh! Just cycle through a few screens and touch the utility panel.
Oh no!!!! I forgot to mute my speakers and now I have to cycle through the panels to get to my speaker mute button.
I can't really tell how Apple did theirs, but I sure hope that they did a better job than Lenovo.
[+] [-] oliv__|9 years ago|reply
To me, these "details" seem to be the little things that contribute to so many people creating deep emotional connections with otherwise cold metal objects.
At this pace, not too long from now, cold metal will be all that's left.
[+] [-] dirtbox|9 years ago|reply
I can see them hemorrhaging all but their most hardcore customers in the next year.