I have become extremely weary of buying Microsoft hardware products. I was (and am) very happy with my Surface Pro 2. Recently, my power supply broke after two years of use, perfectly fine in my book, it happens. However, Microsoft has stopped selling replacement parts after less than three years. I did not find any vendor in Germany that could still deliver. I got lucky and found _one_ seller in the UK. There are some third party copies of the adapter, but due to the proprietary connector they are rare and reviews are abysmal.
For all the complaints about Apple dropping magsafe, I'm happy to finally have industry standard charging. Brick is easily replacable. Cable is easily replacable. Should work with any new computer, or even to cell phones and tablets (with a C to Lightning cable if you're an iPhone person).
Apple made a similar switch from one proprietary charging connector (magsafe 1) to another proprietary connector (magsafe 2) and it's a compatibility hassle between computers. For Surfaces it's an even bigger mess, because like you said, MS doesn't make them anymore. A coworker of mine had the same situation with a Surface Pro 1. Computer still works fine, but the power cord died, and good luck getting a replacement quickly. If you do find a 3rd party version, good luck with not burning your house down.
I'm transitioning all of my hardware over to charging on USB-C and it's great. Both my laptop (HP Chromebook 13") and phone (Nexus 6p) charge via USB-C, and I just went on my first trip in which I only had to bring a single, small charger. It's super convenient, and because it's becoming the de facto standard, I never have to worry about replacement chargers.
It'd be hard for me to buy anything that uses a proprietary charger ever again. This includes iPhones and Surface Books. And I've already committed to not buying anything that uses older versions of USB either -- it's all C for me.
Chargers on modern laptops don't seem to last as long. The cables are definitely "slimmer" and more prone to fraying/breaking.
My SP2 charger cable frayed near the power brick and I ended up just ripping the whole thing apart, cutting the cable & resoldering it. The enclosure was replaced with an off-the-shelf one. Looks ugly, but I didn't want to pay 100NZD for a third-party replacement.
Unfortunately, Apple's done such a good job of keeping me locked to their software ecosystem I cannot consider this, though I vastly prefer the Surface hardware.
Even if I wasn't an iOS developer, my other two jobs are Audio Production/editing and Video Production/editing.
While I could almost happily toss Final Cut out the window (we all know what a disaster the FCP7 -> FCPX transition was, and my friends in the industry tell me Premiere is where it's at right now), I am highly, highly dependant on Logic.
I've been using Logic in some shape or form for more than a decade, I picked up my first Mac Mini G4 in 2004(5?) and proceeded to learn Garageband inside out and backwards, got all the Jam Packs (which are now included in Logic, they used to be $99/apiece and now all 6 are included in Logic for $199...go figure) and got completely used to making music this way. (I moved to actual Logic from GB in 2008-2009.)
I've tried Ableton, and can't get past it's convoluted UI and complete lack of bundled instruments (Logic comes with more than 50GB of included content, and recently added a phenomenal new synth called Alchemy), Pro Tools is expensive and almost requires better than top-of-the-line Mac hardware, etc, etc.
The amount of time it would take me to switch, and learn another DAW, after 10 years of experience, I'd never get back.
I can open Logic, pick up a MIDI instrument, select some of the phenomenal built-in sounds, get a USB mic and have a freakin' awesome track down in like a half-hour.
Possible with Ableton or Pro Tools? Of course. But I'm not about to throw 10 years of experience out the window.
Combine that with xCode and it's iOS-specific toolkit, Final Cut (which I'm finally used to) and I get this really shitty realization that I'm going to be stuck with this software for a long, long, time and am basically just at the mercy of Apple's business decisions.
I'm was a similar situation, I love Garageband and there's just nothing that comes close on Windows. When my 2013 Macbook Pro started experiencing horrible wifi & bluetooth connectivity issues I decided to get a Thinkpad Yoga 14 (wacom pen input!) and a refurbished Mac Mini as my dedicated Garageband unit. Total for the two was about $1500.
Have you looked at Bitwig Studio? I recently switched to it from years of Logic use and I actually like it more, even on Linux (it runs on Win/Mac/Linux).
Ableton Live Suite comes with around 90GB of instruments bundled. You'd get used to UI. I oscillate between FL Studio and Live depending on genre I am working on and don't mind UI differences.
From my experience doing web development, msys2 + PuTTY/Pagent give me pretty much everything I need. I don't even use bash; everything I need is available from cmd.exe, including tools like ls & grep.
Microsoft isn't going to say so, but you can get an Office365 gift card for like $20 on eBay. That gives you the Office apps plus a good chunk of storage on OneDrive and some Skype credit for a year.
It wasn't as painful of a transition as I expected. I guess it helps that so much of my life is in the cloud these days anyway.
>I guess it helps that so much of my life is in the cloud these days anyway
This seems like an excellent reason to not be using Windows as your underlying OS. The rampant privacy and security issues should be enough to keep any business from trusting it. The lack of a compelling reason to choose it should be the end of the story.
I find PuTTY so aggravating to use. I've only used Cygwin but I assume msys2 has an ssh client. Do you use PuTTY over that since it's the workflow you're used to or do you find it to be a better experience?
I'm a frontend dev who worked on Windows for 4 years, and switched to Mac in the last 2.
The biggest hurdle I had with switching was the muscle memory of cmd-[char] vs. ctrl-[char], and tangentially the Windows-specific productivity keyboard shortcuts (mainly win-[char]) and Mac-specific ones.
The second-biggest hurdle is the different mouse movement kinetics on each platform.
These are still "hurdles": I have a Macbook at work, and a Macbook Air and Windows desktop at home. I basically can't do external keyboard + mouse at work for fear of screwing up my muscle memory for when I use my Windows desktop.
All this to say, it's not the camera, graphics card, detachable screen, or whatever is highlighted on this page that makes the switch hard. It's the low level stuff.
As a dev that frequently works on different linux distros, mac, and Windows, I recommend just getting used to disabling mouse acceleration. That is, if you're using a mouse. On a touchpad, I'd never recommend that, but if you're mouse-only then it makes the transition between the three os's fairly seamless.
External mouse movement curve differences are distracting on a desktop, but the difference 100% breaks trying to use windows laptops, for me. Doesn’t help that the PC laptop touchpads also tend to have worse hardware response and worse texture feel. It’s a similar UI gap for me as trying to type an essay on a 4 inch phone screen.
I think it's interesting they don't mention Linux subsystem for Windows 10.
As a developer, MacOS CLI was the biggest advantage over Windows. Now, you have the full Ubuntu CLI at your fingertip including apt-get install. No VM. It's a big selling point.
Even before the Linux subsystem, there were other alternatives.
I switched a year or so ago, and I use Cmder (conemu) as a substitute for Terminal (and it's great, btw). Didn't have to change my habits at all. On the other hand, I'm far from being a "hard core" terminal user.
This "switch from mac" furor is hilarious to me. In 3 years people will be saying "Remember how upset people were getting about losing the escape key?". This feels the same as Apple not supporting flash or microsd cards on iPhones. Everyone made a big stink about it at the time, and a few years down the road flash is dead and no one cares about microsd cards. It will be the same with USB C and dongles; in a few years everything will be on USB C anyway.
Can't wait to try debugging on a touch bar and needing to look at the bar if I am indeed touching the right operation. I don't want to end up with a remapping where I need to press Fn + number to get Fxy function key. Better IMO would have been if every Fxy key had its own customizable OLED/e-ink display; then I would be "awesomed" by this innovation. Even with a separate touch bar on top of it. All real DJs use proper external controllers anyway and the bigger the better, nobody is going to DJ like that poor guy during Apple demo...
One reason this feels different is the pricing bump, which I didn't think would be a big deal until I read theverge's review earlier today [0]. They spent the entire time talking about the low-end model, and entirely dismiss everything with the touch bar as "the price for those models is really quite silly right now." Given that low end model is intentionally crippled with only 2 USB-C ports it's not great that the reaction is to dismiss the rest.
Well, you kinda pegged your fate and future to Apple by choosing to worked into their locked ecosystem right?
It's not like it was an accidental choice, you knew that you'll have to buy whatever Apple serves you in whatever form they want as long as you want to service that platform.
this was the opposite of 20 years ago - sure, you can do loads on macs, except build visual basic apps for the windows ecosystem.
shoe's on the other foot now.
if MS had done a better job in mobile, there'd be more reason to target windows for regular joe consumers, but they lost that market (for now anyway?). :(
What's interesting for me is that nowhere on the site, even when you compare, configure, or try to buy the Surface Book, is mentioned what kind of "i5" or "i7" you get (also for GPU). All you can see when you "configure" is something like "6th Gen Intel Core i7, 1TB SSD, 16GB RAM / dGPU"
Totally agree. If Microsoft wants to made proper comparisons then they need to state what CPU it actually is.
The amount of times I have heard people say that a particular notebook is "Way" cheaper than a MacBook Pro only to point out to them they are comparing a dual core i7 to a quad core i7 is just ridiculous. When they then look at quad core i7 notebooks the prices become much closer if not end up being the same.
I think that is intended to represent your "current" laptop that you need to replace. The premise being you have an older one and want to consider some options other than the 2016 MacBook Pro.
As an industrial designer, Ux designer, and a programer I have found anything "Microsoft" (hardware or software) offensive to my sight, taste, touch, ears, and soul. I'm a Mac user at home and in the office, mainly for application development. BSD Unix under the hood just makes my life as a programmer feel more integrated. I'll have to look at the Linux CLI on the Surface and see how I feel. Most importantly, I love how my Mac just stays out of my way.
I also use Windows at the office for AutoCAD because the Mac version is inferior to the Windows counterpart. Our machines and OS are modern, but I want to carve my eyes out with a spork on a daily basis using Windows 10.
THAT BEING SAID, we've got our eyes on the Surface Studio for the boss to use. We'll see how I feel then. I still have a copy of Adobe Master Collection cs6 that I paid good money for with, no Windows machine to use it on!
If the Surface Book had a 32gb ram option and 7th gen Intel chip it would be more interesting. As it is, it's pretty much the same specs as the Macs. If you're a gamer it does have a better GPU option for an extra $200, and if you're a photographer maybe the SD slot could convince you.
My biggest complaint about Windows, from a pure usability stand point, is the fact that I have yet to find anything close to a functional multi-desktop app. There used to be something as part of XP powertoys (it performed badly as I remember it) but I have yet too see anything since then. Ignoring most of the philosophical issues, that alone makes the platform a non-starter as my daily driver.
I tend to use desktops to organize tasks or task sets. (one for email, jira, time tracking. Another for the set the current ticket I'm working on: editor, browser, logs, query tool, and maybe others for incidentals that pop up: research, support questions etc...) Mutli-desktop has become my goto technique for off loading a large chunk of mental state.
Along with native multiple desktop support of Windows 10, there is a single portable exe by Sysintarnals called Desktops for multiple desktops feature.
These types of ads or product pages will only appeal to individual users. Ineffective.
Try convincing the thousands of companies that have their engineers working on macbooks. It is way more efficient to have everyone on a team use the same OS and hardware (for obvious reasons) therefore I don't think Apple is even phased at all with these Microsoft comparison tactics.
Maybe the ecosystem will change in the next 10 yrs. After all, history does repeat itself. For now, I'm sticking with my macbook for home and my company issued macbook for work.
$1499 (minimum surface-book pricing)
Surface - "6th generation core i5"(no mention of clock speed), 128GB SSD, 8GB ram(no mention of speed), Touch Screen, Whatever the fuck they call their shitty excuse to build a facial recognition database
MacBook Pro - 2GHz i5, 256GB SSD, 8GB 1866MHz RAM, Intel Iris 540 graphics (at least twice as many GFLOPS as the HD graphics), trackpad w/force touch and good drivers, unlock w/ Apple Watch.
1999(highest price before MacBooks go 15 inch, for a bit less you can sacrifice 256GB storage and get a dGPU on the Surface)
Surface - "6th generation core i5"(no mention of clock speed), 256GB SSD, 8GB ram(no mention of speed), Touch Screen, Whatever the fuck they call their shitty excuse to build a facial recognition database
Seriously, literally the only thing to change for this model appears to be the SSD.
MacBook Pro - 2.9GHz i5, 512GB SSD, 8GB 2133MHz RAM, Intel Iris 550 graphics (at least twice as many GFLOPS as the HD graphics), trackpad w/force touch and good drivers, unlock w/ Apple Watch, touch bar and Touch ID(w/their secure enclave so the NSA can't log your fingerprint)
After that it just becomes unfair because the MacBooks become 15 inch and their dGPU has 2GB memory instead of the Surface's 1GB(which is the only actual spec I can find on the surfaces graphics)
[+] [-] gnaddel|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wlesieutre|9 years ago|reply
Apple made a similar switch from one proprietary charging connector (magsafe 1) to another proprietary connector (magsafe 2) and it's a compatibility hassle between computers. For Surfaces it's an even bigger mess, because like you said, MS doesn't make them anymore. A coworker of mine had the same situation with a Surface Pro 1. Computer still works fine, but the power cord died, and good luck getting a replacement quickly. If you do find a 3rd party version, good luck with not burning your house down.
[+] [-] CydeWeys|9 years ago|reply
It'd be hard for me to buy anything that uses a proprietary charger ever again. This includes iPhones and Surface Books. And I've already committed to not buying anything that uses older versions of USB either -- it's all C for me.
[+] [-] grawlinson|9 years ago|reply
My SP2 charger cable frayed near the power brick and I ended up just ripping the whole thing apart, cutting the cable & resoldering it. The enclosure was replaced with an off-the-shelf one. Looks ugly, but I didn't want to pay 100NZD for a third-party replacement.
[+] [-] lostgame|9 years ago|reply
Even if I wasn't an iOS developer, my other two jobs are Audio Production/editing and Video Production/editing.
While I could almost happily toss Final Cut out the window (we all know what a disaster the FCP7 -> FCPX transition was, and my friends in the industry tell me Premiere is where it's at right now), I am highly, highly dependant on Logic.
I've been using Logic in some shape or form for more than a decade, I picked up my first Mac Mini G4 in 2004(5?) and proceeded to learn Garageband inside out and backwards, got all the Jam Packs (which are now included in Logic, they used to be $99/apiece and now all 6 are included in Logic for $199...go figure) and got completely used to making music this way. (I moved to actual Logic from GB in 2008-2009.)
I've tried Ableton, and can't get past it's convoluted UI and complete lack of bundled instruments (Logic comes with more than 50GB of included content, and recently added a phenomenal new synth called Alchemy), Pro Tools is expensive and almost requires better than top-of-the-line Mac hardware, etc, etc.
The amount of time it would take me to switch, and learn another DAW, after 10 years of experience, I'd never get back.
I can open Logic, pick up a MIDI instrument, select some of the phenomenal built-in sounds, get a USB mic and have a freakin' awesome track down in like a half-hour.
Possible with Ableton or Pro Tools? Of course. But I'm not about to throw 10 years of experience out the window.
Combine that with xCode and it's iOS-specific toolkit, Final Cut (which I'm finally used to) and I get this really shitty realization that I'm going to be stuck with this software for a long, long, time and am basically just at the mercy of Apple's business decisions.
[+] [-] j-kent|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mntmn|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bitL|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tekklloneer|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] csixty4|9 years ago|reply
From my experience doing web development, msys2 + PuTTY/Pagent give me pretty much everything I need. I don't even use bash; everything I need is available from cmd.exe, including tools like ls & grep.
Microsoft isn't going to say so, but you can get an Office365 gift card for like $20 on eBay. That gives you the Office apps plus a good chunk of storage on OneDrive and some Skype credit for a year.
It wasn't as painful of a transition as I expected. I guess it helps that so much of my life is in the cloud these days anyway.
[+] [-] dublinben|9 years ago|reply
This seems like an excellent reason to not be using Windows as your underlying OS. The rampant privacy and security issues should be enough to keep any business from trusting it. The lack of a compelling reason to choose it should be the end of the story.
[+] [-] brazzledazzle|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] morley|9 years ago|reply
The biggest hurdle I had with switching was the muscle memory of cmd-[char] vs. ctrl-[char], and tangentially the Windows-specific productivity keyboard shortcuts (mainly win-[char]) and Mac-specific ones.
The second-biggest hurdle is the different mouse movement kinetics on each platform.
These are still "hurdles": I have a Macbook at work, and a Macbook Air and Windows desktop at home. I basically can't do external keyboard + mouse at work for fear of screwing up my muscle memory for when I use my Windows desktop.
All this to say, it's not the camera, graphics card, detachable screen, or whatever is highlighted on this page that makes the switch hard. It's the low level stuff.
[+] [-] Meegul|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jacobolus|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hartator|9 years ago|reply
As a developer, MacOS CLI was the biggest advantage over Windows. Now, you have the full Ubuntu CLI at your fingertip including apt-get install. No VM. It's a big selling point.
[+] [-] slantyyz|9 years ago|reply
I switched a year or so ago, and I use Cmder (conemu) as a substitute for Terminal (and it's great, btw). Didn't have to change my habits at all. On the other hand, I'm far from being a "hard core" terminal user.
[+] [-] blakesterz|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wyager|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bitL|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mcintyre1994|9 years ago|reply
[0] http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/2/13490774/apple-macbook-pro...
[+] [-] bhups|9 years ago|reply
We've come full circle!
[+] [-] slantyyz|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cschep|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jamesmp98|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] izacus|9 years ago|reply
It's not like it was an accidental choice, you knew that you'll have to buy whatever Apple serves you in whatever form they want as long as you want to service that platform.
[+] [-] mgkimsal|9 years ago|reply
shoe's on the other foot now.
if MS had done a better job in mobile, there'd be more reason to target windows for regular joe consumers, but they lost that market (for now anyway?). :(
[+] [-] neals|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] francisl|9 years ago|reply
Programming, design? Oh is the keyboard as a laptop replacement?
[+] [-] miahi|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Swinx43|9 years ago|reply
The amount of times I have heard people say that a particular notebook is "Way" cheaper than a MacBook Pro only to point out to them they are comparing a dual core i7 to a quad core i7 is just ridiculous. When they then look at quad core i7 notebooks the prices become much closer if not end up being the same.
[+] [-] newtorob|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ryanSrich|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tomtang0514|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] twblalock|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bhauer|9 years ago|reply
Lower down the page they show something newer.
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] dluan|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Unbeliever69|9 years ago|reply
I also use Windows at the office for AutoCAD because the Mac version is inferior to the Windows counterpart. Our machines and OS are modern, but I want to carve my eyes out with a spork on a daily basis using Windows 10.
THAT BEING SAID, we've got our eyes on the Surface Studio for the boss to use. We'll see how I feel then. I still have a copy of Adobe Master Collection cs6 that I paid good money for with, no Windows machine to use it on!
[+] [-] guelo|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emeraldd|9 years ago|reply
I tend to use desktops to organize tasks or task sets. (one for email, jira, time tracking. Another for the set the current ticket I'm working on: editor, browser, logs, query tool, and maybe others for incidentals that pop up: research, support questions etc...) Mutli-desktop has become my goto technique for off loading a large chunk of mental state.
[+] [-] numo16|9 years ago|reply
[1]: https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2015/04/16/virtu...
[+] [-] aq3cn|9 years ago|reply
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-in/sysinternals/cc817881.as...
[+] [-] Someone1234|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] huangc10|9 years ago|reply
Try convincing the thousands of companies that have their engineers working on macbooks. It is way more efficient to have everyone on a team use the same OS and hardware (for obvious reasons) therefore I don't think Apple is even phased at all with these Microsoft comparison tactics.
Maybe the ecosystem will change in the next 10 yrs. After all, history does repeat itself. For now, I'm sticking with my macbook for home and my company issued macbook for work.
"Turning and turning in the widening gyre".
[+] [-] mastermojo|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] klagermkii|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] H4CK3RM4N|9 years ago|reply
1999(highest price before MacBooks go 15 inch, for a bit less you can sacrifice 256GB storage and get a dGPU on the Surface)
Surface - "6th generation core i5"(no mention of clock speed), 256GB SSD, 8GB ram(no mention of speed), Touch Screen, Whatever the fuck they call their shitty excuse to build a facial recognition database Seriously, literally the only thing to change for this model appears to be the SSD.
MacBook Pro - 2.9GHz i5, 512GB SSD, 8GB 2133MHz RAM, Intel Iris 550 graphics (at least twice as many GFLOPS as the HD graphics), trackpad w/force touch and good drivers, unlock w/ Apple Watch, touch bar and Touch ID(w/their secure enclave so the NSA can't log your fingerprint)
After that it just becomes unfair because the MacBooks become 15 inch and their dGPU has 2GB memory instead of the Surface's 1GB(which is the only actual spec I can find on the surfaces graphics)