It is possible to view this as an isolated event or a trend. Coming on the heels of BREXIT this is a trend.
The attempts at building an interconnected globalised world are beginning to fail. A bunch of elites decided to create their own trans-national utopia unchecked by borders and dismissed all criticism as racist or bigoted. The globalisation project has been rejected by a majority of the population. Whether it is for economic reasons or just plain bigotry is something for the sociologists to study and not something I can pontificate on.
Also people seem to care a LOT about immigration and preserving their culture. Instead of patronising these people it's time we tried to understand their concerns and try to assuage them.
There is no genuine leftist alternative. It's a choice between center-right "left" that's sold out to the establishment and the far right.Economists need to stop acting like priests in the medieval ages who justified the existing order . The rural voter who lost his job doesn't care about the theory of comparitive advantage.
If this trend holds this will soon take hold in France and other European nations. This is a return to the world of the 1920s. Not gloom and doom but a much more unstable global order with every country for itself. Not what we need when we face planet scale threats like global warming.
Get out of your bubble. Hang out more on subreddits you don't agree with.
Michael Moore nailed it: it's a rust belt brexit [1]. Four blue states in the Great Lakes rust belt -- MI, OH, PA, and WI -- all typically blue, all appear to have voted for Trump.
Since I'm from that area, what Moore points out and the free traders refuse to acknowledge is free trade has been absolutely devastating to the region. Sure, maybe you can buy cheap appliances that don't last that long anyway. But all the GM workers and steel workers and so forth are just SOL and education doesn't do a damn thing for them. They're not going to be making iphone apps (not that apps are all that lucrative anyway).
Economists / policymakers have lied to us; there's few benefits to globalization and there's a total lack of a meaningful employment policy to replace lost jobs with jobs of equal quality. But hey, Walmart may be hiring! And we wonder why people who worked in manufacturing, at Carrier [2], or at Oreo [3], aren't enthusiastic about free trade or its promoters.
> A bunch of elites decided to create their own trans-national utopia unchecked by borders and dismissed all criticism as racist or bigoted. The globalisation project has been rejected by a majority of the population.
The globalisation project is a consequence of:
1. People move: they have legs.
2. Technology has made moving easier and faster.
3. Technology has made keeping in touch in a decentralized network easier.
So it is not the elites, it is technology. You can try to stop it, by force, but you will not succeed and you will create lots of suffering.
An excellent post, but just to ride the coattails a little and expand on a point:
Folks, this is what happens when you ignore and ostracize and most importantly mock the downtrodden. Let's assume (and this might be an incorrect assumption) that this election was decided by undereducated white males.
What has been the positive messaging from the Left and even the intelligent Right for those folks?
Which of the angry tweets decrying evil white men helped encourage them to cross party lines? Which of the Ted talks (other than one or two) recognized their plight as a respectable thing they could fix instead of a talking point? Which of the reddit posts refrained from calling them manchildren during GG? Which media posts failed to paint them as bigoted and racist?
The fact is, they've had it rough, and the Left failed to show that they would have a place at the table, that they would have any dignity in the future.
And so, they lashed out and here we are. Hopefully some of us are paying attention.
Instead of patronising these people it's time we tried to understand their concerns and try to assuage them.
If you understood their concerns you wouldn't try to "assuage" them. You would join them.
But anyway, this thread is flagged and dead so who cares. I remember when Obama won and reddit had his victory post at the very top for 48+ hours. Now there's just some shit about Canada's immigration website. And the beat goes on.
Yes, the big, looming problem is global warming. It seems at some point there will be a take-over. The only way to force these uncomfortable things on a population who can vote for comfort.
There are some important advances in today's world versus the 1920s.
For one, the average human is more easily connected to one another. Within the next hour I could order a crazy amount of raw materials from around the globe. Or donate it to feed a family.
Another is we're generally better educated, especially in the western countries. We teach the basics of relativity in public school, whereas it was still being hotly debated at the highest levels, barely within view of the general public.
Maybe this is way off, but the wave of "privatization" has seen quite a bit of financial power in the hands of staunch progressives. Control of the higher education, much of the modern economy. The urban areas are largely anti-Trump and make up the bulk of the population.
Sam Altman, Tim Cook, etc...you have the power here: Invest in technology to do as OP suggests... listen to and understand "these people", and help them feel whole again.
It looks as though we'll have little progressive voice in government. Trump White House, probably two Supreme picks, with control of both sides in Congress, and a hamstrung, red taped up the ass bureaucracy getting in the way of government workers doing legitimately beneficial work. Little representation of progressive ideals.
All the above said; This may be a bit reactionary, and I am a bit tipsy, but progressives largely control the modern economy and innovation pipeline. All those tech workers at Google, Apple, YC, financial workers. Left leaning types predominantly control urban government offices in these areas. The most progressive leaning states pay more in Federal dollars than they receive versus conservative states, and have healthier economies. There's a tremendous amount of power there. I hope it's wielded for the benefit of the many. But a coordinated rejection of too conservative an agenda could be called for.
I think Mark Zuckerberg's comments show both ways we can react to this election. You've got to decide:
will you be constructive or destructive?
"We can't create a culture that says it cares about diversity and then excludes almost half the country
because they back a political candidate ... There are many reasons a person might support Trump that do not
involve racism, sexism, xenophobia ..."
I didn't vote for either candidate. So I'm not advocating either way. But I think America really, really needs to decide how it wants to take this and how it wants to move forward. We, by our actions and state of mind, choose whether this is a good or bad thing. Take control. Be constructive. Do good.
> But I think America really, really needs to decide how it wants to take this
as a non-US-resident I'd say the US did already decide its action. Thats what the vote is for. In my opinion the people who need to take an honest look at themselves aren't the american voters, but the intelligentia, the "juste millieu". Not just in the US, but the whole West.
I've tried to follow the news coverage here in Germany for almost the entire election this time, including primaries. The utter biasedness of journalism made it unbearable. I could switch between American, French, British or German TV channels - none of the channels did even bother to keep a disguise of "neutrality". Trump was pure evil, his voters deplorable and so on.
I've kept telling people: "Don't underestimate his chances" and now I've never felt so sorry for being right.
America decided it wants to move forward with the candidate it just elected for President. I may not agree with the candidate, but that's the decision that was made. That's how America decided to move forward.
Perhaps you meant that the left needs to decide how it will move forward given this result.
If you are a blue collar worker in the rust belt who lost his or her job because your factory moved to Mexico or China, there was no way you were voting for Clinton. And here we are.
The echo chamber of CNN, MSNBC, NYT, et al., is deafening. If you've been watching these outlets you know that they have been calling the election for Clinton for more than six months. The arrogance is just stunning. And here we are.
Now let's talk about the DNC. These folks are so crooked they literally colluded to steal the nomination from Sanders. How can that possibly sit well with anyone? Frankly, Bernie would have won vs. Trump. And here we are.
And for these reasons and a host of others, here we are.
Really sad to see so many members of the technical community act like brats on social media over the result. Whatever happened to respecting the viewpoints of others? Whatever happened to being humble in victory and respectful in defeat?
Democracy means you don't always get what you want. Be excellent to each other, whether you voted for Trump, Clinton, a third party candidate, or nobody. It's tragic seeing people isolate themselves into echo chambers of ideological refuge.
What happened to Peter Thiel in the media and probably in more private circles was really shameful. Zuckerberg's counter-argument to that is probably the one time in the past few years when I agreed with him on something.
Honestly it's impressive -- how do you lose to Donald Trump? Failed businessman and mediocre reality TV star. You've gotta be pretty good at what you do to fail over this guy.
I understand that this place is 99% liberal and that you went as far as to petition to kick Peter Thiel out because of his trump support, but please realize most Americans agree with trump. That's how you lose to him. Make jokes all you want, we won.
That's selective reading of what Trump is. He's incredibly media savvy, and he wasn't ashamed of playing to people's base instincts (including bigotry) in order to win them over.
Clinton was a fine candidate to beat Trump, but she wasn't the candidate that matched the mood of the electorate. It's worth pointing out that the popular vote remains incredibly close, and Clinton may win it yet.
Through a history of corruption, self-created scandals, elitism (with an arrogant sense of "you can't touch me"), and a track record of terrible political decisions. That almost ought to do it. Throw in a stone-like personality in the mix, against a more charismatic character that simulates real understanding of the people, and it should seal the deal.
If Clinton would have been a little tougher on immigration it wouldn't have even been close. That was one issue Trump supporters cared about most. If she spoke a little tougher on that she would have won.
lol at all the people here pretending like they saw this coming. this is a surprise for everyone. the NYT and every other major news outlet had Clinton winning with a chance of over 80%. the silent majority won.
One can understand distaste for washington, globalization, politicians and middle america wishing for manufacturing jobs to come back, but to think Trump will fix any of those things is beyond comprehension.
Definitely encrypt all your communications. The Republicans are hardcore about violating any privacy rights (or any Bill of Rights) that they can, and will make sure to expand the NSA to spy on the US citizens communications. (it's currently illegal for the NSA to spy on US citizens comms..)
People who voted for Trump saw right through them and through all the "we're just neutral and just trying to get people to vote" attempts.
I mean, obviously people should go to vote and should be encouraged to vote. It's just that it was pretty much an open secret that the reason all of these tech companies and Silicon Valley people were suddenly "so involved" in getting people to vote, is because they thought most of the people they'd reach would vote for Clinton. And it's another open secret that most of Silicon Valley companies wanted Clinton to win.
I, for one, would've welcomed attempts to fix the real democracy issues in the U.S. (which are far bigger than just low voter turnouts), and attempts to fix the real problems that got half of the country to vote for Trump.
Hint: it's not just because of racism, but also because people are sick and tired of polished-up, corrupt politicians. Trump may be a very poor, or one of the worst possible alternatives to that, but at least he was an alternative.
These people really don't get it why Trump and Sanders saw such a rise in popularity. Tuesday's Reuters poll shows black and white why. I'll just copy the results here:
- 75 percent agree that "America needs a strong leader to take the country back from the rich and powerful."
- 72 percent agree "the American economy is rigged to advantage the rich and powerful."
- 68 percent agree that "traditional parties and politicians don’t care about people like me."
- 76 percent believe "the mainstream media is more interested in making money than telling the truth."
- 57 percent feel that "more and more, I don't identify with what America has become."
- 54 percent feel "it is increasingly hard for someone like me to get ahead in America."
One upside: Peter Thiel on the Supreme Court is a sorely needed perspective on so many levels. Every current justice went to the same groupthink law schools and never worked outside the system.
The people who were funding Trump/Hillary were funding them equally. Is doesn't matter who won, they banks, oil companies and large media conglomerates still control the country like they have for the past several decades.
I see in our future ... the exact same presidency. More US led wars. More predator drones. More CIA guns and money to fund revolutions that we then fight with out predator drones. Just remember the election is like Whose Line is it Anyway, the points are all made up and none of it matters.
>The people who were funding Trump/Hillary were funding them equally. Is doesn't matter who won, they banks, oil companies and large media conglomerates still control the country like they have for the past several decades.
Yep. That's what makes it so hard for third party candidates. The donors fund both sides so they don't get left out in the cold if their guy loses. They have to believe you'll have a chance to win to fund you, and if they don't it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
[+] [-] thewarrior|9 years ago|reply
The attempts at building an interconnected globalised world are beginning to fail. A bunch of elites decided to create their own trans-national utopia unchecked by borders and dismissed all criticism as racist or bigoted. The globalisation project has been rejected by a majority of the population. Whether it is for economic reasons or just plain bigotry is something for the sociologists to study and not something I can pontificate on.
Also people seem to care a LOT about immigration and preserving their culture. Instead of patronising these people it's time we tried to understand their concerns and try to assuage them.
There is no genuine leftist alternative. It's a choice between center-right "left" that's sold out to the establishment and the far right.Economists need to stop acting like priests in the medieval ages who justified the existing order . The rural voter who lost his job doesn't care about the theory of comparitive advantage.
If this trend holds this will soon take hold in France and other European nations. This is a return to the world of the 1920s. Not gloom and doom but a much more unstable global order with every country for itself. Not what we need when we face planet scale threats like global warming.
Get out of your bubble. Hang out more on subreddits you don't agree with.
The divide is bridged one person at a time.
Life goes on.
EDIT: Its a shame they killed this thread.
[+] [-] x0x0|9 years ago|reply
Since I'm from that area, what Moore points out and the free traders refuse to acknowledge is free trade has been absolutely devastating to the region. Sure, maybe you can buy cheap appliances that don't last that long anyway. But all the GM workers and steel workers and so forth are just SOL and education doesn't do a damn thing for them. They're not going to be making iphone apps (not that apps are all that lucrative anyway).
Economists / policymakers have lied to us; there's few benefits to globalization and there's a total lack of a meaningful employment policy to replace lost jobs with jobs of equal quality. But hey, Walmart may be hiring! And we wonder why people who worked in manufacturing, at Carrier [2], or at Oreo [3], aren't enthusiastic about free trade or its promoters.
[1] http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/
[2] http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a44548/in...
[3] http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-ore...
[+] [-] gonvaled|9 years ago|reply
The globalisation project is a consequence of:
1. People move: they have legs.
2. Technology has made moving easier and faster.
3. Technology has made keeping in touch in a decentralized network easier.
So it is not the elites, it is technology. You can try to stop it, by force, but you will not succeed and you will create lots of suffering.
[+] [-] WalterSear|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] angersock|9 years ago|reply
Folks, this is what happens when you ignore and ostracize and most importantly mock the downtrodden. Let's assume (and this might be an incorrect assumption) that this election was decided by undereducated white males.
What has been the positive messaging from the Left and even the intelligent Right for those folks?
Which of the angry tweets decrying evil white men helped encourage them to cross party lines? Which of the Ted talks (other than one or two) recognized their plight as a respectable thing they could fix instead of a talking point? Which of the reddit posts refrained from calling them manchildren during GG? Which media posts failed to paint them as bigoted and racist?
The fact is, they've had it rough, and the Left failed to show that they would have a place at the table, that they would have any dignity in the future.
And so, they lashed out and here we are. Hopefully some of us are paying attention.
[+] [-] inimino|9 years ago|reply
Well put!
> Hang out more on subreddits you don't agree with.
Better yet, get off the Internet and seek face-to-face conversations with people around you from different perspectives!
I hear a lot of people after every election saying they don't know anybody who voted for the other side. That's a problem.
[+] [-] mynameishere|9 years ago|reply
If you understood their concerns you wouldn't try to "assuage" them. You would join them.
But anyway, this thread is flagged and dead so who cares. I remember when Obama won and reddit had his victory post at the very top for 48+ hours. Now there's just some shit about Canada's immigration website. And the beat goes on.
[+] [-] reitanqild|9 years ago|reply
Agree. Protip: you don't even have to make a lot of noise - just discuss the things that are within reach.
I disagree with a significant number of you guys here in a number of cases, yet it seems people mostly like me.
[+] [-] codecamper|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RecentTake33|9 years ago|reply
For one, the average human is more easily connected to one another. Within the next hour I could order a crazy amount of raw materials from around the globe. Or donate it to feed a family.
Another is we're generally better educated, especially in the western countries. We teach the basics of relativity in public school, whereas it was still being hotly debated at the highest levels, barely within view of the general public.
Maybe this is way off, but the wave of "privatization" has seen quite a bit of financial power in the hands of staunch progressives. Control of the higher education, much of the modern economy. The urban areas are largely anti-Trump and make up the bulk of the population.
Sam Altman, Tim Cook, etc...you have the power here: Invest in technology to do as OP suggests... listen to and understand "these people", and help them feel whole again.
It looks as though we'll have little progressive voice in government. Trump White House, probably two Supreme picks, with control of both sides in Congress, and a hamstrung, red taped up the ass bureaucracy getting in the way of government workers doing legitimately beneficial work. Little representation of progressive ideals.
All the above said; This may be a bit reactionary, and I am a bit tipsy, but progressives largely control the modern economy and innovation pipeline. All those tech workers at Google, Apple, YC, financial workers. Left leaning types predominantly control urban government offices in these areas. The most progressive leaning states pay more in Federal dollars than they receive versus conservative states, and have healthier economies. There's a tremendous amount of power there. I hope it's wielded for the benefit of the many. But a coordinated rejection of too conservative an agenda could be called for.
[+] [-] barsonme|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] woodpanel|9 years ago|reply
> But I think America really, really needs to decide how it wants to take this
as a non-US-resident I'd say the US did already decide its action. Thats what the vote is for. In my opinion the people who need to take an honest look at themselves aren't the american voters, but the intelligentia, the "juste millieu". Not just in the US, but the whole West.
I've tried to follow the news coverage here in Germany for almost the entire election this time, including primaries. The utter biasedness of journalism made it unbearable. I could switch between American, French, British or German TV channels - none of the channels did even bother to keep a disguise of "neutrality". Trump was pure evil, his voters deplorable and so on.
I've kept telling people: "Don't underestimate his chances" and now I've never felt so sorry for being right.
[+] [-] heartbreak|9 years ago|reply
Perhaps you meant that the left needs to decide how it will move forward given this result.
[+] [-] yarou|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] siculars|9 years ago|reply
The echo chamber of CNN, MSNBC, NYT, et al., is deafening. If you've been watching these outlets you know that they have been calling the election for Clinton for more than six months. The arrogance is just stunning. And here we are.
Now let's talk about the DNC. These folks are so crooked they literally colluded to steal the nomination from Sanders. How can that possibly sit well with anyone? Frankly, Bernie would have won vs. Trump. And here we are.
And for these reasons and a host of others, here we are.
[+] [-] codecamper|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] broodbucket|9 years ago|reply
Democracy means you don't always get what you want. Be excellent to each other, whether you voted for Trump, Clinton, a third party candidate, or nobody. It's tragic seeing people isolate themselves into echo chambers of ideological refuge.
[+] [-] mtgx|9 years ago|reply
https://s13.postimg.org/ohe1sci6f/mmexport1476831885441.jpg
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12739582
[+] [-] WaxProlix|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hellodevnull|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thecopy|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] random_upvoter|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] untog|9 years ago|reply
Clinton was a fine candidate to beat Trump, but she wasn't the candidate that matched the mood of the electorate. It's worth pointing out that the popular vote remains incredibly close, and Clinton may win it yet.
[+] [-] mtgx|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blondie9x|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] symlinkk|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gdilla|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unixhero|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] siculars|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codecamper|9 years ago|reply
SCREW THE TRUMP GOVERNMENT. I"M DOING EVERYTHING IN BITCOIN.
[+] [-] inimino|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mozumder|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dudul|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LargeCompanies|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] davidbwire|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mtgx|9 years ago|reply
I mean, obviously people should go to vote and should be encouraged to vote. It's just that it was pretty much an open secret that the reason all of these tech companies and Silicon Valley people were suddenly "so involved" in getting people to vote, is because they thought most of the people they'd reach would vote for Clinton. And it's another open secret that most of Silicon Valley companies wanted Clinton to win.
I, for one, would've welcomed attempts to fix the real democracy issues in the U.S. (which are far bigger than just low voter turnouts), and attempts to fix the real problems that got half of the country to vote for Trump.
Hint: it's not just because of racism, but also because people are sick and tired of polished-up, corrupt politicians. Trump may be a very poor, or one of the worst possible alternatives to that, but at least he was an alternative.
These people really don't get it why Trump and Sanders saw such a rise in popularity. Tuesday's Reuters poll shows black and white why. I'll just copy the results here:
- 75 percent agree that "America needs a strong leader to take the country back from the rich and powerful."
- 72 percent agree "the American economy is rigged to advantage the rich and powerful."
- 68 percent agree that "traditional parties and politicians don’t care about people like me."
- 76 percent believe "the mainstream media is more interested in making money than telling the truth."
- 57 percent feel that "more and more, I don't identify with what America has become."
- 54 percent feel "it is increasingly hard for someone like me to get ahead in America."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-mood-idU...
And if you're not convinced, or you still don't quite get it, listen to Michael Moore and Jimmy Dore explain it in more colorful terms:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOcstHhtL4Y&feature=youtu.be...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZNwvXZbAfg
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] robg|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] djsumdog|9 years ago|reply
I see in our future ... the exact same presidency. More US led wars. More predator drones. More CIA guns and money to fund revolutions that we then fight with out predator drones. Just remember the election is like Whose Line is it Anyway, the points are all made up and none of it matters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig
[+] [-] aaronblohowiak|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gozur88|9 years ago|reply
Yep. That's what makes it so hard for third party candidates. The donors fund both sides so they don't get left out in the cold if their guy loses. They have to believe you'll have a chance to win to fund you, and if they don't it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
[+] [-] omarchowdhury|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] pmoriarty|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] flojito|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Kale_Rogers|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] erikbye|9 years ago|reply