This is some really dubious logic and it's terrible that this should be considered valid research.
To exclude the fact that some groups work harder, have completely different attitudes towards self preservation, who might have skills passed down from generation to generation, who might actually be more intelligent (contentious, I know, but it could be true).
It's ridiculous.
I grew up with a lot of Asian kids, and enough Black kids, and they were definitely different ethnic groups, in so many ways. It's crazy to think that 'only societies attitudes towards them' made the difference.
I really hate these comments which imply that black (african) people are intellectually inferior. If so, how do you explain the fact that African immigrants and their children have consistently been the most successful group in terms of educational and income achievement?
Just do a little research before insinuating that africans/blacks are less intelligent. Data says otherwise.
> But the greatest thing that ever happened to them wasn't that they studied hard, or that they benefited from tiger moms or Confucian values. It's that other Americans started treating them with a little more respect.
It seems strange to ignore the possibility that one led to the other.
Had the same idea while reading this post. It tries to prove that "all myths are rooted in truth", is wrong because asian american succeded, not because they worked better, but because they benefitted from better popularity.
My interpretation is : asian worked harder (as a group) it was noticed and it improved their reputation. Thanks to this, they got better wages.
There's a much different history there. A culture was erected around black slavery. The country was divided politically by black slavery and then split in half by war over it. It hasn't been very long since all that happened. Black people haven't forgotten. White people haven't forgotten.
The menacing culture of anger, retaliation, violence, crime and drug abuse which appears so frequently in rap music could have something to do with that.
The degree to which those things are exalted and praised is an indicator - and part of a closed circuit - of the negative cycle of poverty in a depressed demographic.
There certainly does appear to be a white supremacist fixation on black people. I was thinking the other day how odd it is that "white supremacists" (in America ) seem to spend a majority of their time talking about blacks when Asians are on average performing better in every metric. Life expectancy, earnings, education. I thought white supremacists would see Asian American success as a threat to their ideology (that whites are genetically superior and should be performing better than all races).
I only asked this question once on a YouTube race thread to self proclaimed white supremacists, and the response I got was that Asians don't commit crime or cause trouble so it's alright if they're performing better.
Which makes me believe a more accurate term for most white supremacists (in America at least) would be "anti-black".
Really interesting given that white supremacists also tend to be anti-semitic, and most of the same tropes about Asians also apply to the Jewish community: Focus on education, low rates of crime, etc.
Maybe that's just a factor of how modern white supremacy came to be, though (i.e. Nazis).
> Journalists were praising Asians for being hard workers who kept their heads down, cherished education and didn’t complain
? Or maybe it was just that
> Asians [were] being hard workers who kept their heads down, cherished education and didn’t complain.
I'll go further than another top-level comment and say that embracing the first sentence unironically is being intentionally obtuse, given that one literally has to write the second sentence to get there.
But it's the unsurprising consequence of a worldview that "hard work never gets anyone anywhere". Note that you don't have to reject the idea of privilege entirely in order to acknowledge that hard work is also a path to success; and this article goes to show that hard work and success is also a path to privilege, not [just] the other way around.
Disproportionately successful minorities such as East Asian and Indian immigrants are considered functionally white for propaganda purposes, as their success in modern institutions is significant evidence that these institutions are not discriminating based on anything other than ability.
I argue that they already are seen as such. So called white supremacists (emphasis on supremacist) in America spend a curiously small amount of time talking about how Asians are outperforming them on average, which sounds to me antithetical to their ideology (that whites are superior). If they really believed in white supremacy they would spend more energy on Asians than black people.
I'd like to see a similar look at how and why attitudes changed towards Italian-americans, Irish-americans, and Jews. These groups were all discriminated against and considered undesirable by the majority for a long time, and now are mostly accepted.
I have suggested in jest before that what determines whether or not a minority will gain acceptance in the US is their food. Americans like Asian, Italian, and Jewish food, and Irish drinking culture, so ethnic restaurants from those groups became popular, and acceptance of the people behind the food followed. We like Mexican food, and Hispanics seem on track for mainstream acceptance.
Black food is too similar to general Southern food for the mainstream to see it as a separate cuisine, so acceptance has been harder for blacks.
I suspect that the "them and us" mentality of our inner chimp is binary not n-ary so if society is really anti-black our minds cannot easily handle also being anti-"something else". So Asians simply became "honouray white" in order to make room for racism elsewhere.
It's something similar to the waves of immigrants hitting Londons docklands for generations - each wave suffers then moves outwards to the suburbs and the newest wave becomes the focus of ire.
Just a thought - depressingly maybe we always need a "them"
what a load of racist bullshit. So a $8,000 difference in wages in young men is proof that Asians got to where they are today because white people allowed them to?
so other people's respect will put money in my pocket? Damn why did I bother going to college?
> but how much of it can be attributed to advanced degrees in useless subjects like Ethnic Studies from bottom-tier schools
hahaha, observant!
I would say the Civil Rights Movement solved a great problem. Black Americans were denied from practically all schools before that.
When you cross reference amount of black americans in prison, with black americans with college degrees, the story of disproportional disenfranchisement drops to levels consistent with other color-based populations in the country. This would lead me to saying the Civil Rights Movement was one of the best things.
School, credit and housing was not extended to black americans before any of that, and it is primarily high school dropouts in the gangs and prisons.
The "bottom-tier schools" often do make some ethnic classes mandatory, and I have no idea how many people per capita major in them, but this is no different from the liberal arts degree that people in privileged classes take, just for the hell of it.
[+] [-] edblarney|9 years ago|reply
To exclude the fact that some groups work harder, have completely different attitudes towards self preservation, who might have skills passed down from generation to generation, who might actually be more intelligent (contentious, I know, but it could be true).
It's ridiculous.
I grew up with a lot of Asian kids, and enough Black kids, and they were definitely different ethnic groups, in so many ways. It's crazy to think that 'only societies attitudes towards them' made the difference.
[+] [-] a_w|9 years ago|reply
Just do a little research before insinuating that africans/blacks are less intelligent. Data says otherwise.
[0] http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?story=2014101... [1] http://atlantablackstar.com/2012/10/06/obama-education-initi... [2] http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2007-03-18/news/070318034...
[+] [-] guns|9 years ago|reply
It seems strange to ignore the possibility that one led to the other.
[+] [-] gbersac|9 years ago|reply
My interpretation is : asian worked harder (as a group) it was noticed and it improved their reputation. Thanks to this, they got better wages.
[+] [-] Moshe_Silnorin|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] userbinator|9 years ago|reply
I think some more interesting questions are why that happened, and why the same didn't happen with blacks.
[+] [-] allemagne|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] backtoyoujim|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whatnotests|9 years ago|reply
The degree to which those things are exalted and praised is an indicator - and part of a closed circuit - of the negative cycle of poverty in a depressed demographic.
[+] [-] pcbro141|9 years ago|reply
I only asked this question once on a YouTube race thread to self proclaimed white supremacists, and the response I got was that Asians don't commit crime or cause trouble so it's alright if they're performing better.
Which makes me believe a more accurate term for most white supremacists (in America at least) would be "anti-black".
[+] [-] CarpetBench|9 years ago|reply
Really interesting given that white supremacists also tend to be anti-semitic, and most of the same tropes about Asians also apply to the Jewish community: Focus on education, low rates of crime, etc.
Maybe that's just a factor of how modern white supremacy came to be, though (i.e. Nazis).
[+] [-] belovedeagle|9 years ago|reply
> Journalists were praising Asians for being hard workers who kept their heads down, cherished education and didn’t complain
? Or maybe it was just that
> Asians [were] being hard workers who kept their heads down, cherished education and didn’t complain.
I'll go further than another top-level comment and say that embracing the first sentence unironically is being intentionally obtuse, given that one literally has to write the second sentence to get there.
But it's the unsurprising consequence of a worldview that "hard work never gets anyone anywhere". Note that you don't have to reject the idea of privilege entirely in order to acknowledge that hard work is also a path to success; and this article goes to show that hard work and success is also a path to privilege, not [just] the other way around.
[+] [-] dpc59|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Moshe_Silnorin|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pcbro141|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Nydhal|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rokosbasilisk|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tzs|9 years ago|reply
I have suggested in jest before that what determines whether or not a minority will gain acceptance in the US is their food. Americans like Asian, Italian, and Jewish food, and Irish drinking culture, so ethnic restaurants from those groups became popular, and acceptance of the people behind the food followed. We like Mexican food, and Hispanics seem on track for mainstream acceptance.
Black food is too similar to general Southern food for the mainstream to see it as a separate cuisine, so acceptance has been harder for blacks.
[+] [-] lifeisstillgood|9 years ago|reply
It's something similar to the waves of immigrants hitting Londons docklands for generations - each wave suffers then moves outwards to the suburbs and the newest wave becomes the focus of ire.
Just a thought - depressingly maybe we always need a "them"
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] rokosbasilisk|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vvilliam|9 years ago|reply
so other people's respect will put money in my pocket? Damn why did I bother going to college?
[+] [-] GFK_of_xmaspast|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Decade|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] elastic_church|9 years ago|reply
hahaha, observant!
I would say the Civil Rights Movement solved a great problem. Black Americans were denied from practically all schools before that.
When you cross reference amount of black americans in prison, with black americans with college degrees, the story of disproportional disenfranchisement drops to levels consistent with other color-based populations in the country. This would lead me to saying the Civil Rights Movement was one of the best things.
School, credit and housing was not extended to black americans before any of that, and it is primarily high school dropouts in the gangs and prisons.
The "bottom-tier schools" often do make some ethnic classes mandatory, and I have no idea how many people per capita major in them, but this is no different from the liberal arts degree that people in privileged classes take, just for the hell of it.