I think that this style of climbing resonates a lot better with the general public because it does such a good job of conveying difficulty.
If you look at a photo of Adam on one of his 9b's [1], it looks like a guy having a really hard time in a really steep place, but there are holds there. You see things that seem like a fella could hang from them.
Compare to the photo in the article, with its dead vertical, mile-high flat granite surface that's, well, kinda bumpy. There is nowhere in that image that the layman could picture himself existing for even a second before falling off.
It's a shame, in a way, that we sort of climbed off the top of the feasible difficulty for this style of route back in the '90s and had to turn to steeper, longer routes. You just don't get the captivating photos like you used to these days.
true, only those who tried climbing for at least few times do know how much difference the shape of the hold and the angle of the wall makes the difference.
layman can see me climbing some easy overhang in the gym (say 5c) in amazement, but it's basically a series of pullups with some stamina required (yeah, I am not a very good climber). on real rock with similar surface angle, or on some proper route I wouldn't last there for 2 seconds
Keep in mind that although he did it in a single push of 8 days, he has actually been up and down the wall for a lot longer, freeing and aiding every pitch many times. I was on the Nose almost a month ago and I could see his portaledge hanging out there. His accomplishment is really amazing and the Dawn Wall is so damn blank! No idea how these people get so good!
Plug for Valley Uprising (on Netflix) if you're interested in climbing. The progression of difficulty and (mostly friendly and supportive) competition between climbers is inspiring.
Amazing feat!
PS: Would be happy to take anyone else's recommendations for videos or books too.
This is only relevant if you understand Ondra's native tongue (Czech), which is extremely unlikely :-) But for anyone who does speak Czech: this is a rather fun interview, especially if you don't know much about climbing.
Seconded! Valley Uprising is worth watching (and available on Netflix in loads of countries, not just the US)
I just finished Alex Honnold's book (Alone on the Wall) and it's a fun read. Gives you a bit of backstory to the media frenzy that surrounds him at times.
In terms of videos, the Reel Rock film tour is amazing. They cover some really awesome climbs. And "Meru" is on Amazon Prime Video in a lot of countries (a short version was in Reel Rock one or two years ago).
If you liked Valley Uprising, you should check out the documentary Dirtbag: The Legend of Fred Beckey, coming out in 2017 (http://dirtbagmovie.com/). Beckey was a pioneer of climbing all the way back to the 1940s -- and is still doing it today at 93. Saw him at Vertical World here in Seattle just a few months ago. Epic.
"Touching the Void" is another great climbing/mountaineering book that is well worth the read. I have not seen the movie adaptation yet, so I cannot comment on its quality.
Every time time someone uses the world "conquer" to describe a climbing accomplishment, a million climbers face palm.
That said, this is a pretty descriptive article describing what happened in a way accessible to fairly general audience. I particularly liked the comparison "it's akin to Usain Bolt also being the fastest marathoner alive. That’s the hold Ondra has on climbing." It's incredible to imagine how far this guy might push the sport, given everything he has already accomplished at such a young age.
I'm sure this will get down voted into oblivion. I respect the passion of climbing, I really do. However, I never agreed with drilling holes, and placing bolts, in all of these amazing natural structures. Just another thing we have to ruin for human enjoyment :(
Just FYI, the Clean Climbing movement that really picked up in the 70s has done a lot to try and minimize or avoid damage to rock. Just saying that as someone who doesn't climb, who didn't know about this (and nuts vs pitons) until I was bored and browsing the book store once.
Not sure there are enough people on HN who are so much into climbing that they'd downvote you. But it's pointless to have a trad vs sport argument or the tenmillionth time, especially here.
For those interested in the bolt or not to bolt debate, the Dawn Wall has always been at the epicenter of this controversy. When Warren Harding and Dean Caldwell did the first ascent they placed many bolts (most were tiny brittle aluminum dowels). Later, Royal Robbins and Don Lauria, made the 2nd ascent with the intention of removing those bolts. But they stopped removing the bolts as the beauty of the climb became apparent.
IMO, as someone who has climbed in the Valley for more than 25 years and has always been a traditionalist, drilled bolts have there place in climbing. It would be hard to convince me that bolts on El Cap or any where else in the Valley have 'ruined' the massif.
Climbing seems to be the developer’s sport. It’s not team based (beyond your belayer), there’s no schedule so you can fit it in around other things, and especially with bouldering it’s split into short challenges that are as much mental as physical.
Ha! ture, i feel like the sport trifecta for developer types might be climbing, cycling (road and/or mtb) and ultimate frisbee :-) Am I out on a ledge here ? (pun intended)
well, it is properly amazing activity. endless creativity in movements and situation (unless you only go to gym which would be a shame, but even that is great thing to do), you work out yourself to decent fitness at least, and usually in beautiful mountainous/natural environments. and let's not forget constant need to overcome one's fear of dying/getting injured, which a pretty strong reflex - this builds good overall character over time.
add to it very friendly community, possibility to focus on anything from 2m boulder problem to few thousand metres of altitude difference alpinism depending on your current wishes, and I am not surprised.
there are tons of great sports out there, tried many (but far from all!) but this one just works for me personally best (+ ski touring in winter).
I bet you could find some of them to help you learn more about climbing!
I climb, many of my climbing partners are developers, including a few who recently climbed in Yosemite. It's engaging and fun. If you've got a climbing gym around, you should check it out!
Here's a google translation of just a few days old Czech article about him from his beginnings as a child. I thought Alex Honnold is the best one and didn't know about Ondra till this weekend although I am Czech as well.
That is fucking amazing. I can't even comprehend what it must be like to be living on that wall for eight days (let alone 19 or 28). The mental and emotional state it must put you in...
I wonder if in my lifetime we'll ever see a big, sustained free climb go up that surpasses the Dawn Wall. It took Tommy Caldwell 7 years just to unlock it. Testpieces like that don't come around very often.
it's considered the hardest climb globally in this type of climbing. you won't find such a huge face in himalaya for example. so first we would need to find a tougher one. if you look at the photos/description, there are not many massive polished almost-vertical walls like this one
Different sites have different policies for bolting, for example, Yosemite allows drilling and bolting, as long as it's done by hand (no motorised drills) [1].
Most bolts are placed by local climbers, and it's widely recognised that there is an "ethical" aspect to bolting: whether they should be fitted, where they should be fitted, etc. If someone came along and indiscriminately bolted a route, without any consultation with the local community, it would provoke an outcry.
Generally, bolts are fitted by a climber on an abseil rope. They'll reach the top using an alternative, easy route (at many crags, you can reach the top simply by hiking along a path), then abseil down, and drill/fit the bolts whilst attached to an abseiling rope.
Installing bolts whilst lead-climbing is done, but it's not very common. The climber would start by securing themselves to the cliff using traditional 'lead protection' (which is designed to be temporary, and generally not as secure as a bolt). Once secured, they would drill and fit the bolt.
Who: Aside from Yosemite, the answer is "it depends", a lot of these are just set up by enterprising enthusiasts, often technically illegally, but few care enough to bother them.
In some parks & locations they're set up by whoever manages the park / owns the area to attract climbers & the business that comes with it.
Some people in the mountaineering / climbing community don't like them since they leave a permanent trace ("take only photos, leave only footprints"), and prefer to use removable versions of these for just the duration of the climb.
Before it was "discovered" that placing and removing pitons or even chocks actually caused wear in the rock, the permanence of bolting was considered a negative. Now you can look at it as, better to have something there permanently than to have gradually widening holes punctuating a fine crack.
If you think it isn't sporting, just do the route solo free so you don't have any impact on the rock at all. /elitist /maybe
Back the end of September I was photographing folk on the Dawn Wall from down the valley, as we were passing through from the Bay to Park City, heading to a futurist conference...
This is not a photo of the Dawn Wall. These climbers are climbing a route called Tangerine Trip (I believe) which is significantly easier than the Dawn Wall. Climbers climb to the top of El Cap every day, the Dawn Wall has only had 2 ascents.
EDIT: I should note that this image is the route that a different pair of climbers took last year. I’m not sure if Adam followed the same route or not.
It's just very different, to the point where you can't even compare the two climbers with the same ruler. Honnold's biggest achievements are notable because of the risk he takes while soloing. Ondra -- although he tackled some bold climbing on the Dawn Wall -- didn't stick his neck out there in nearly the same way, but instead performed a sustained exhibition of incredible athleticism.
They're both the best at what they do, but they do different things, and I don't think either of them could do what the other does.
As always when someone asks such questions (including when I asked one a week or so ago), the answer is that this is a site for news of interest to hackers, not necessarily news about hacking. If you want to judge whether this is of interest to hackers, then just look at the lively activity of the rest of the thread; it compares quite favourably to even some quieter front-page discussions.
[+] [-] jasonkester|9 years ago|reply
If you look at a photo of Adam on one of his 9b's [1], it looks like a guy having a really hard time in a really steep place, but there are holds there. You see things that seem like a fella could hang from them.
Compare to the photo in the article, with its dead vertical, mile-high flat granite surface that's, well, kinda bumpy. There is nowhere in that image that the layman could picture himself existing for even a second before falling off.
It's a shame, in a way, that we sort of climbed off the top of the feasible difficulty for this style of route back in the '90s and had to turn to steeper, longer routes. You just don't get the captivating photos like you used to these days.
[1] https://www.8a.nu/images/news/large/636002137114161240_13320...
[+] [-] saiya-jin|9 years ago|reply
layman can see me climbing some easy overhang in the gym (say 5c) in amazement, but it's basically a series of pullups with some stamina required (yeah, I am not a very good climber). on real rock with similar surface angle, or on some proper route I wouldn't last there for 2 seconds
[+] [-] peace011|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ethbro|9 years ago|reply
Amazing feat!
PS: Would be happy to take anyone else's recommendations for videos or books too.
[+] [-] drej|9 years ago|reply
https://video.aktualne.cz/dvtv/mam-lezecky-mozek-sedi-mi-div...
[+] [-] lorenzhs|9 years ago|reply
I just finished Alex Honnold's book (Alone on the Wall) and it's a fun read. Gives you a bit of backstory to the media frenzy that surrounds him at times.
In terms of videos, the Reel Rock film tour is amazing. They cover some really awesome climbs. And "Meru" is on Amazon Prime Video in a lot of countries (a short version was in Reel Rock one or two years ago).
[+] [-] geephroh|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] takk309|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] un-devmox|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] saiya-jin|9 years ago|reply
edu marin from spain is also very good climber, I've found mostly shorter videos for all of these.
[+] [-] mmartinson|9 years ago|reply
That said, this is a pretty descriptive article describing what happened in a way accessible to fairly general audience. I particularly liked the comparison "it's akin to Usain Bolt also being the fastest marathoner alive. That’s the hold Ondra has on climbing." It's incredible to imagine how far this guy might push the sport, given everything he has already accomplished at such a young age.
[+] [-] takk309|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] overcast|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] doytch|9 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_climbing
[+] [-] buzzdenver|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] un-devmox|9 years ago|reply
IMO, as someone who has climbed in the Valley for more than 25 years and has always been a traditionalist, drilled bolts have there place in climbing. It would be hard to convince me that bolts on El Cap or any where else in the Valley have 'ruined' the massif.
[+] [-] wlll|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Jaruzel|9 years ago|reply
By comparison, I tend to consider a brisk walk too much exercise.
[+] [-] robin_reala|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] russtrotter|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] saiya-jin|9 years ago|reply
add to it very friendly community, possibility to focus on anything from 2m boulder problem to few thousand metres of altitude difference alpinism depending on your current wishes, and I am not surprised.
there are tons of great sports out there, tried many (but far from all!) but this one just works for me personally best (+ ski touring in winter).
[+] [-] wonder_er|9 years ago|reply
I climb, many of my climbing partners are developers, including a few who recently climbed in Yosemite. It's engaging and fun. If you've got a climbing gym around, you should check it out!
[+] [-] rdslw|9 years ago|reply
On most business trips I have always pair of my climbing shoes and first lookup in a new city is for climbing gym :-)
[+] [-] petval|9 years ago|reply
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&js=y&prev...
[+] [-] yread|9 years ago|reply
Google translate learnt Czech from people from Prague :)
[+] [-] jdale27|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Fricken|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] saiya-jin|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] buzzdenver|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cfontes|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] philfrasty|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] manarth|9 years ago|reply
Most bolts are placed by local climbers, and it's widely recognised that there is an "ethical" aspect to bolting: whether they should be fitted, where they should be fitted, etc. If someone came along and indiscriminately bolted a route, without any consultation with the local community, it would provoke an outcry.
Generally, bolts are fitted by a climber on an abseil rope. They'll reach the top using an alternative, easy route (at many crags, you can reach the top simply by hiking along a path), then abseil down, and drill/fit the bolts whilst attached to an abseiling rope.
Installing bolts whilst lead-climbing is done, but it's not very common. The climber would start by securing themselves to the cliff using traditional 'lead protection' (which is designed to be temporary, and generally not as secure as a bolt). Once secured, they would drill and fit the bolt.
[1] https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/bolting.htm
[+] [-] avar|9 years ago|reply
Who: Aside from Yosemite, the answer is "it depends", a lot of these are just set up by enterprising enthusiasts, often technically illegally, but few care enough to bother them.
In some parks & locations they're set up by whoever manages the park / owns the area to attract climbers & the business that comes with it.
Some people in the mountaineering / climbing community don't like them since they leave a permanent trace ("take only photos, leave only footprints"), and prefer to use removable versions of these for just the duration of the climb.
[+] [-] cardiffspaceman|9 years ago|reply
If you think it isn't sporting, just do the route solo free so you don't have any impact on the rock at all. /elitist /maybe
[+] [-] wlll|9 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fANAk7UC6rg&feature=youtu.be...
[+] [-] sbisson|9 years ago|reply
https://flic.kr/p/N3KDST
[+] [-] spuz|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wolf550e|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Fricken|9 years ago|reply
https://youtu.be/PLd_c4CjG44
[+] [-] function_seven|9 years ago|reply
http://www.rockandice.com/dawn-wall-el-cap-yosemite-topo
EDIT: I should note that this image is the route that a different pair of climbers took last year. I’m not sure if Adam followed the same route or not.
[+] [-] raftaa|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] frrp|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] toppy|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] carsonbaker|9 years ago|reply
They're both the best at what they do, but they do different things, and I don't think either of them could do what the other does.
[+] [-] erl|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wlll|9 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR1jwwagtaQ&feature=youtu.be...
The whole video is pretty interesting, but may make your hands sweat even more.
[+] [-] toppy|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] a-l-c-o|9 years ago|reply
Please refrain, Thx
[+] [-] toppy|9 years ago|reply
https://blog.codinghorror.com/software-projects-as-rock-clim...
http://adaptivepatchwork.com/2011/01/10/why-programmers-love...
http://breckyunits.com/what-can-a-programmer-learn-from-rock...
[+] [-] JadeNB|9 years ago|reply
As always when someone asks such questions (including when I asked one a week or so ago), the answer is that this is a site for news of interest to hackers, not necessarily news about hacking. If you want to judge whether this is of interest to hackers, then just look at the lively activity of the rest of the thread; it compares quite favourably to even some quieter front-page discussions.