I returned my MacBook Pro 15' earlier today. Here's why:
* Graphics card glitches - I paid close to 4K so I don't have to deal with quality control issues.
* Touchpad is just too large. I found myself resting my palm on it all the time, and sometimes (clicking) without realizing it. Also, if you like lying down and working (which I do sometimes because of a lower back problem) the size of the touchpad will make you work extra hard to avoid accidental clicks.
* Had the machine for ~ 10 days, used the touch bar less than that. Definitely not worth the money. Hopefully in the future, they'll have the 15' option without it.
* The bootcamp experience just sucks (this was my primary reason for returning it). Currently, there's no way to gracefully switch between discreet and integrated gpu, so the battery life is terrible, like two-and-a-half-hour maximum battery life terrible. gpu-switch doesn't work either. In fact, if you use gpu-switch you'll have to rebuild both macOS and Windows as the machine will just hang when you try to boot into either.
* Recovery mode has many issues with network connectivity. A few times, I had to tether/connect to my iPhone hotspot for it to go through.
* Sharp edges everywhere.
The specs are very underwhelming too, but I was willing to tolerate lower specs for higher build quality. I actually just picked up an XPS 15 9550 from Microcenter. Got the 2.6Ghz, 16GB (expandable to 32GB), 512GB SSD, 4K touchscreen for $1350 (an open box, new for $1499).
I don't want to discount your experience by any means. And there's no denying that the price is very steep for the new MBP. But, other than price, I'm really satisfied with the new 15" MBP.
In particular, I do actually really appreciate the larger trackpad. But I'm a heavy user of BetterTouchTool and have always regarded the trackpads as one of the main reasons to get a MacBook. I don't even bother with three-finger drag now thanks to the size of the trackpad.
I think the Touch Bar should be considered for what it is: a replacement for static function keys. Apple of course hyped it like they hype everything. But considered realistically in context I consider it a success. I actually do use it some. Some of the simplest things work the best; for instance, I really like the options presented when taking a screenshot. I also enjoy using it for music control, scrubbing through music, and switching between music sources (including YouTube tabs). Nothing revolutionary, but then again, how could it ever be given what it is?
I got an HP Spectre x360 (16Gb, 512Gb SSD, I7-7500U), for $999 (open box for $940). Build quality is top notch.
I am a heavy Mac user and I could understand the Apple premium. There was no real competition before, but now that's changed. There are good offerings from Dell, Lenovo, Razer, HP, Asus and many others now.
What were you using before? I just upgraded from a late 2008 MBP, and the difference is night and day. Computers only get noticeable better roughly every six years these days, so if you were using last year's model then of course it's going to seem like a ton of money for no real benefit.
From my perspective this thing is at least 2x as fast in real world use, substantially lighter, way better screen and speakers. And the keyboard is awesome and the build quality is outrageously good.
I get that people are upset they can't edit 5K or whatever, but you can get a desktop computer for that for less than half the price. Obviously they will be even better in three years once intel has chips that are appropriate for the MBP that also support LPDDR4, but for now this seems like clearly the best computer on the market and very clearly aligned with where the industry is going in the future.
I can't speak about MBP as I have only ever bought Windows machines but I was in the market for a new laptop for my new software dev business (one-man startup at the moment) and I looked at a few: Although I should say that my brother is still using his 2008 17" MBP to this day so they do know how to build them!
My shortlist was the XPS 13, XPS 15, Surface Book and Latitude E7470.
I discounted the XPS firstly for having too many coil whine issues even after 3 generations[1]. In addition, I had read about the key travel being short (1.2mm I think) but it wasn't until I actually tried one in PCWorld that I realised it's horrific to type on for any length of time. Not something I had experienced in the past. The 4k screen is wonderful though.
The Surface Book, while having a nice keyboard and sumptuous screen, has a terrible warranty: 1 year hardware support out of the box and for 3 years it was around £350. Even then, all they would do is send you a second hand replacement and take yours away. I read about some people that had been sent badly scratched replacements even though theirs was perfect. Too risky for a £2000+ machine.
The Latitude e7470 ticked all the boxes: easily expandable, tough, 14" and a screen res of 2560 x 1440. Also, I found one in the outlet store (scratch and dent) for £800 with a 3 year onsite next day warranty: I haven't received it yet but I have a 7 year old one at home that still runs as a Windows Server 2012 R2 machine and apart from having crap battery life, it still runs.
I hope your XPS is ok, it's stunning to look at in the flesh but I didn't want to take the risk that my £2000 machine started whining and to have Dell say "it's by design", and I hated the keyboard, so I stuck with the slightly less glamorous but no less capable Latitude.
Great move. Keep hearing from forums, reddit small issues here and there for this first-gen notebook. Looks like many others are paying premium to Apple to be their beta testers. Really hope Apple release non-touch bar version in parallel for future refresh.
> * The bootcamp experience just sucks (this was my primary reason for returning it). Currently, there's no way to gracefully switch between discreet and integrated gpu, so the battery life is terrible, like two-and-a-half-hour maximum battery life terrible. gpu-switch doesn't work either. In fact, if you use gpu-switch you'll have to rebuild both macOS and Windows as the machine will just hang when you try to boot into either.
Also a problem on previous models. I was working on my own GPU switching solution but gave up due to lack of time and the fact most of my applications work just fine under OS X.
I'd be interested doing the same with Debian or similar Linux though.
razer blade pro has a different touchpad placement, it's on the right side of the keyboard. I also have some difficulties with the touchpad of my current laptop, I click it all the time.
USB-C charging looks great on paper but disappoints when devices don't charge.
Your device may support a subset of the different USB charging protocols:
* USB 1.1 lo power: 5V/100mA
* USB 2.0 hi power: 5V/500mA
* USB 3.0: 5V/900mA
* USB BC (battery charging): 5V/1.5A
* USB quickcharge 1.0/2.0/3.0, proprietary Qualcomm standard
* USB PD (power delivery) 5 profiles offering up to 100W (5/12/20V @ 1.5/2/3/5A)
MacBooks also use a nonstandard 15V USB-PD profile.
Unrelated to the MacBook, but problems i see with USB-C are:
Chargers may offer cryptographic signatures in the future for authentication against a whitelist at the device.
Second and most problematic:
The MacBook is a good citizen here, but many laptops (HP business series, Dell XPS series) only support USB-C PD with profile 4&5 (20V/3A+).
This rules out the car dongle as well as cheap USB power banks.
The connector is always the same, the customer cannot deduce charger/device compatibility. The experience will suck.
In other words, exactly like the early days of usb-micro/mini? I distinctly recall having chargers from blackberries that wouldn't support my first android phones due to being underpowered. I would imagine over time we'll see something almost identical only with two unofficial categories instead:
One set of chargers will be for mobile devices and just support the highest standard we see in them.
One will be for laptops and the same - just supports the highest profile for them.
Wow, that's more horrible than I thought. Thanks for the summary.
I am honestly befuddled by USB-C. The allure of a universal connector? That's kinda pointless when the cables look mostly the same but support different feature subsets. It's insanity.
It's bad enough that many manufacturers (I'm looking at you, Dell) don't differentiate between USB 2 and 3 Type A. C is so much worse for this.
Instead of a pretty good $1200 13" Air we have a $1800+ cersion that's lost features (MagSafe, worse keyboard) to be a hair thinner that also requires $200 in dongles to connect to anything.
Having had the Macbook 12" for a year and a half now and a Nexus 6p for a year, it's really been quite wonderful. I can charge my laptop or phone using the same charger – of course not as fast as the OEM charger, but wonderful for being on the move. I love that I can use a typical battery backup to charge my Macbook. I really wish everything of mine USB-C, and it will be soon.
Right now it feels wonderful with OEM chargers, but you do have me worried about the future buying replacements and accessories.
There will be the cheap Chinese chargers that will suck. Then customers will complain, and Belkin and others will notice and make good chargers with proper marks on the packaging. It won't take too long before customers and shops know what to buy or sell.
No, sorry, the new MacBook pro sucks for hackers. It's great for prosumers who like gadgets and benefit from USB-C. Hackers do not benefit from a closed box with non-expandable performance.
I get it that prosumers like to think of themselves as "hackers", but ...that's just not how it works. Come on.
After a week with a 13 inch, what I've mainly noticed is how physically unwelcoming it is:
The edges are very sharp, and the air vents on the bottom are right where you grab the laptop to pick it up, which gives it a knife-like feel. Also, by expanding the track pad far beyond it's useful size, there is now no gap between it and the space key. I have discovered that I have a habit of resting my thumb just below the space bar and now I tend to bump the pointer on accident now. The arrow keys are now a continuous run of keys with no way to orient quickly like previously (where the side arrows were slightly smaller and made it obvious where the up key was without looking.) . Finally, the keyboard action is very short, as you would expect with such a thin laptop.
I do most of my work with an external keyboard and monitor, so it isn't that big a deal to me, but I can see it being hard on people who use their laptop exclusively.
I am disappointed by the Touch Bar. It is such a small and dim screen and a lot of attention is required for interacting with it. There is no tactile feedback, so touch typing is impossible. QuickType and Emojis are useless for me. It might be a good accessibility feature, but QuickType is much too slow and the upward movement of the entire hand/arm interrupts the flow of typing. I think the Touch Bar is great for designers who can benefit from a 'general purpose touch/slider input device' (e.g. for color mixing, navigating timelines, parameter fine-tuning). It might also reduce cognitive load a bit since it reduces the need for memorizing keyboard shortcuts. On the other hand, users who are blessed with a good memory will probably not benefit very much in that regard because pressing a key combination is much quicker than scanning and touching the Touch Bar.
The only attractive feature of the Touch Bar model really is Touch ID. If Apple would sell the Function Keys model with a Touch ID power button and one more USB port, I would happily buy it. But right now, I am a little bit confused and baffled by Apple's new MacBook Pro product line. I think I am going to wait another generation to see whether Apple gets back on track and whether the Touch Bar can stand the test of time.
I bought a new 13" MBP with touchbar and I'm returning it on Monday. I don't like the keyboard and I _really_ don't like the touch bar, and I seem to only get about 3 hours of battery life. I'm going to stick with my early 2014 MacBook Air until Apple figures their stuff out.
This entire article is raving about a single, relatively small but important detail that Apple has been notoriously hostile towards and worst at up until now: cross-manufacturer port compatibility. So hostile that they went out of their way to find ridiculous loopholes in their compliance with the EU's Common EPS Memorandum of Understanding on USB-B.
Yes, it's a great feature, but giving Apple so much credit for introducing it is the ultimate irony.
Be careful with the idea that the charger is just a regular USB-C charger. These laptops will draw 3-4 amps at 20 volts. Most phone chargers are designed for 1-3amps at 5 volts, so they would only provide a trickle of charge to these laptops. Older chargers (and computers ports!) can be damaged by these higher power draws. Also, the USB-C cable the Macs come with is rated up to a hefty 5 amps. Some of the cheap phone cables out there could actually pose a fire danger if they were to handle 5 amps.
> I’m sure it’s only a matter of time until Amazon is flooded with cheap versions of this idea that tweak it just enough to avoid patent issues. I look forward to buying $3 breakaway USB-C cables in the future.
Has this guy not seen what's going on with Amazon and the cheap USB-C cables that are flooding it[0]? They're literally destroying people's laptops by drawing too much power and frying either end.
Only chargers that don't follow the spec can be damaged by the power draw. That is the problem with adapters and USB-A cables that use wrong resistor and USB-C device will pull 3A from USB-A charger that can only provide 2.4A at most.
Also, the charge cable is electronically marked for 5A. Regular USB-C cables only do 3A, which limits them to 60W with USB-PD.
Are the MacBook USB-C ports special in some way that makes them USB-C and also a non-standard charger port?
If not, then they must be compliant USB-C ports and therefore would not be supplying an incorrect voltage. As far as I understand the fundamentals of electricity, current doesn't matter. A 5v USB power source that can supply 100 amps would still only supply whatever the device was designed to draw when charging.
But all of that is moot if the MacBook ports are "special" USB-C ports and somehow they negotiate a voltage higher than 5V.
I'll just go ahead and contradict the running opinion and say: I like my 2016 MacBook Pro 15".
I've owned a few Macs and this one is my favorite. Despite my initial impressions, I really like the keyboard. I'm also quite happy with the trackpad which I've found to be excellent as usual and not picking up stray contact.
The only place I'm not "ecstatic" or "pleased" is with the TouchBar - and to be clear, I'm not displeased. I just don't really notice it. It's there doing its thing and I'm using the laptop, doing my thing. Occasionally I need the escape key and tap where I'd expect the escape key to be and while I don't get the tactile feedback it works.
All in all - the TouchBar is a net zero to me. I didn't lose anything by losing my Fn keys but I don't feel I gained anything with the TouchBar except TouchId which is nice.
TL;DR: Overpriced? Definitely. Pleased with product? Yes. TouchBar? No strong feelings. Returning it? No.
I'm finding it really odd that people are praising the new keyboard. I must admit that I have only tested it in the Apple Store, but I find it terrible, the short travel feels really bad to me. Is this something that you just get used to?
> Despite my initial impressions, I really like the keyboard.
Have only tried typing a few lines in store and I also enjoyed it, but might be personal preference: use keyboard with Cherry MX Brown at home and got used to light/low-force actuation.
I have an 13" since almost a week. I think it's great. 95% of my time is spent in iTerm/VSCode/XCode/Android Studio.
Some remarks:
- Keyboard, especially arrow keys, took me 2 days to get used to, but now it feels weird typing on a old macbook. I actually love it and prefer it now.
- The thumb + touchpad thing mentioned elsewhere here was definitely a big problem in the first day or two. It isn't anymore (guess I got used to it? not sure because I didn't try to avoid it)
- USB-C is freaking awesome. I bought an adapter with ethernet, HDMI, usb 3 and SD that actually replaces the 3 adapters I had to carry around. And because of UPD, I only have one cable to plug to the mac and everything is there including power.
- I don't miss magsafe as much as I thought I would. Although I would happily buy an adapter if it is thin enough (some are coming).
- Touchbar is actually pretty great, although it being a touch screen, the lack of touch feedback can be annoying at first. Pretty ESC is annoying at first, but I got used to it and don't mind it now.
- Touchbar would be an _awesome_ medium to get notifications (such as long running terminal jobs etc...)
- I didn't get any of the battery life issues people are talking about. Actually, I get 8-10 hours out of it easily (ie plug it at the end of the day because I forgot it was unplugged).
- Thinner bezels around the screen makes it somehow look bigger (even though the visible area is the same size and the screen/lid itself is smaller).
- HiDPi is freaking great. Finally I can use a 4k monitor smaller than 32" and still get retina display (1440p HiDPi and other intermediate resolutions up to native 3820x2160 are fully supported)
- It is really thin (no thinner that a Macbook Air, but still). It's feels really great.
- Actually, I just noticed that because it is thinner, my wrists don't get hurt by the edges like they used to (the exact opposite of what someone mentioned here).
Assuming you're a touch typer, how on earth do you manage to use AS without real function keys? Almost everything beyond just typing code requires them.
As a daily user of various JetBrains IDEs, the lack of a proper keyboard makes the new MB Pro inconceivable for me. I'm actually going to have to go Win or Linux for my next machine.
USB-C is awesome. It is the future and in some ways it is good Apple are being the way they are.
But... I wish Apple would put USB-C in the iDevices (honestly why does the iPhone and iPad use Lightning when USB-C exists??). It is annoying that I can ditch all my cables except that one fucking extra Apple cable.
Time will tell, but I wonder if reliability will be the issue. USB-C has 24 contacts crammed in there. That's a lot of tiny parts for something that gets manhandled and lint packed as much as a phone charger connection.
If I was on the hook to warranty replace $600 devices when the internal connector gets ruined I might take my time jumping on board too.
I don't get it. It's bad for hackers because of the tepid software updates, increasingly developer unfriendly application environment, lack of full touch in an age where every other manufacturer does that ad a standard, and awkward meshing with its own ecosystem.
USB-C is pretty great, actually. Still pretty raw for the mainstream tech crowd, but it's not like that for tech-literate consumers.
> The new charging block that comes with the MBP looks exactly the same as any traditional MBP charger
Actually not, the convenient little 'arms' for the cord are missing. And the cord itself is rather stiff and not very flexible … and there's no green / red charging status light either. It's OK as a USB-C charger but it looks and feels different from a traditional MBP charger.
TL; DR: "USB-C all the things" is great... if you use android phones.
Author conveniently avoids mentioning that the charger is another usability step back (no more plastic hooks to keep cable tidy), or that those external USB-C batteries are not really powerful enough to give you anything but a handful of extra minutes, or that, er, Apple's own phone doesn't get any of these wonderful improvements. and of course...
> You can buy tiny little USB-C adapters
It's well-known that the current quality of USB-C cables and adapters is very random, to say the least, up to and including serious electrical damage.
Interoperability is good, but it looks like Apple just introduced a new series of trade-offs that are sub-optimal. Regardless, to say that a laptop is great "for hackers" because it has USB (A,B,C, whatever) ports is just silly. I mean, you can't even change your hard drive here.
Sorry, the charger comes with Microsoft surface series has an additional USB port, so I can charge my phone and laptop at the same time. And I won't buy some so called stupid USB c monitor just for meet the needs of the new macbook. This article perfectly described how awful the dongles world looks like.
> Now I only need to bring one power cable to the café instead of two and I can charge my computer or my phone interchangeably. This is so nice!
I've never even thought of bringing a phone wall charger with me when I have my laptop and laptop charger. Just plug the phone into the laptop if it needs charging.
I have no idea how we got to the USB C connector mess. I thought one of the hard fought battles of the tech ecosystem was "if it fits, it will work". What is the rationale for using the same connector for incompatible use cases?
Author forgot to mention new MBPs dont use USB-C, they use _special Apple variant_ of USB-C. Variant that doesnt work with ordinary dongles, from hdmi dongles producing flickering mess to USB 2.0 dongles _silently corrupting files_ from pendrives.
The article goes on and on about fun new stuff that you can do (and I don't deny them).
But we can't do the same old things we NEED to do, like keep using all our existing cables and devices (including mice!). Really, if they wanted to merely transition to USB-C, they could have included 2 new ports, and 2 old ports. No need to eliminate the old USB ports in just one generation.
Regarding the "it's the same plug as your phone":
It's not! iPhones have lightning cable (ironically, their own phone!).
> Really, if they wanted to merely transition to USB-C, they could have included 2 new ports, and 2 old ports. No need to eliminate the old USB ports in just one generation.
This. Dropping all the old ports was a step too far, I think. It's forward looking, but it's an inconvenience today.
I'm sure a smoother transition would've been more welcome.
[+] [-] Yabood|9 years ago|reply
* Graphics card glitches - I paid close to 4K so I don't have to deal with quality control issues.
* Touchpad is just too large. I found myself resting my palm on it all the time, and sometimes (clicking) without realizing it. Also, if you like lying down and working (which I do sometimes because of a lower back problem) the size of the touchpad will make you work extra hard to avoid accidental clicks.
* Had the machine for ~ 10 days, used the touch bar less than that. Definitely not worth the money. Hopefully in the future, they'll have the 15' option without it.
* The bootcamp experience just sucks (this was my primary reason for returning it). Currently, there's no way to gracefully switch between discreet and integrated gpu, so the battery life is terrible, like two-and-a-half-hour maximum battery life terrible. gpu-switch doesn't work either. In fact, if you use gpu-switch you'll have to rebuild both macOS and Windows as the machine will just hang when you try to boot into either.
* Recovery mode has many issues with network connectivity. A few times, I had to tether/connect to my iPhone hotspot for it to go through.
* Sharp edges everywhere.
The specs are very underwhelming too, but I was willing to tolerate lower specs for higher build quality. I actually just picked up an XPS 15 9550 from Microcenter. Got the 2.6Ghz, 16GB (expandable to 32GB), 512GB SSD, 4K touchscreen for $1350 (an open box, new for $1499).
[+] [-] nilkn|9 years ago|reply
In particular, I do actually really appreciate the larger trackpad. But I'm a heavy user of BetterTouchTool and have always regarded the trackpads as one of the main reasons to get a MacBook. I don't even bother with three-finger drag now thanks to the size of the trackpad.
I think the Touch Bar should be considered for what it is: a replacement for static function keys. Apple of course hyped it like they hype everything. But considered realistically in context I consider it a success. I actually do use it some. Some of the simplest things work the best; for instance, I really like the options presented when taking a screenshot. I also enjoy using it for music control, scrubbing through music, and switching between music sources (including YouTube tabs). Nothing revolutionary, but then again, how could it ever be given what it is?
[+] [-] outworlder|9 years ago|reply
I got an HP Spectre x360 (16Gb, 512Gb SSD, I7-7500U), for $999 (open box for $940). Build quality is top notch.
I am a heavy Mac user and I could understand the Apple premium. There was no real competition before, but now that's changed. There are good offerings from Dell, Lenovo, Razer, HP, Asus and many others now.
[+] [-] Alex3917|9 years ago|reply
From my perspective this thing is at least 2x as fast in real world use, substantially lighter, way better screen and speakers. And the keyboard is awesome and the build quality is outrageously good.
I get that people are upset they can't edit 5K or whatever, but you can get a desktop computer for that for less than half the price. Obviously they will be even better in three years once intel has chips that are appropriate for the MBP that also support LPDDR4, but for now this seems like clearly the best computer on the market and very clearly aligned with where the industry is going in the future.
[+] [-] _Understated_|9 years ago|reply
My shortlist was the XPS 13, XPS 15, Surface Book and Latitude E7470.
I discounted the XPS firstly for having too many coil whine issues even after 3 generations[1]. In addition, I had read about the key travel being short (1.2mm I think) but it wasn't until I actually tried one in PCWorld that I realised it's horrific to type on for any length of time. Not something I had experienced in the past. The 4k screen is wonderful though.
The Surface Book, while having a nice keyboard and sumptuous screen, has a terrible warranty: 1 year hardware support out of the box and for 3 years it was around £350. Even then, all they would do is send you a second hand replacement and take yours away. I read about some people that had been sent badly scratched replacements even though theirs was perfect. Too risky for a £2000+ machine.
The Latitude e7470 ticked all the boxes: easily expandable, tough, 14" and a screen res of 2560 x 1440. Also, I found one in the outlet store (scratch and dent) for £800 with a 3 year onsite next day warranty: I haven't received it yet but I have a 7 year old one at home that still runs as a Windows Server 2012 R2 machine and apart from having crap battery life, it still runs.
I hope your XPS is ok, it's stunning to look at in the flesh but I didn't want to take the risk that my £2000 machine started whining and to have Dell say "it's by design", and I hated the keyboard, so I stuck with the slightly less glamorous but no less capable Latitude.
[1] - https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=xps+coil+whine
[+] [-] jaxondu|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jtl999|9 years ago|reply
Also a problem on previous models. I was working on my own GPU switching solution but gave up due to lack of time and the fact most of my applications work just fine under OS X.
I'd be interested doing the same with Debian or similar Linux though.
[+] [-] wyclif|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ramgorur|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Demcox|9 years ago|reply
If you have have heads ups I would like to know. Thnx
[+] [-] yo-code-sucks|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] ce4|9 years ago|reply
Your device may support a subset of the different USB charging protocols:
MacBooks also use a nonstandard 15V USB-PD profile.Unrelated to the MacBook, but problems i see with USB-C are:
Chargers may offer cryptographic signatures in the future for authentication against a whitelist at the device.
Second and most problematic: The MacBook is a good citizen here, but many laptops (HP business series, Dell XPS series) only support USB-C PD with profile 4&5 (20V/3A+). This rules out the car dongle as well as cheap USB power banks.
The connector is always the same, the customer cannot deduce charger/device compatibility. The experience will suck.
Edit: typos/formatting
[+] [-] tw04|9 years ago|reply
One set of chargers will be for mobile devices and just support the highest standard we see in them.
One will be for laptops and the same - just supports the highest profile for them.
[+] [-] cletus|9 years ago|reply
I am honestly befuddled by USB-C. The allure of a universal connector? That's kinda pointless when the cables look mostly the same but support different feature subsets. It's insanity.
It's bad enough that many manufacturers (I'm looking at you, Dell) don't differentiate between USB 2 and 3 Type A. C is so much worse for this.
Instead of a pretty good $1200 13" Air we have a $1800+ cersion that's lost features (MagSafe, worse keyboard) to be a hair thinner that also requires $200 in dongles to connect to anything.
Seriously, fuck you, Apple.
[+] [-] kylorhall|9 years ago|reply
Right now it feels wonderful with OEM chargers, but you do have me worried about the future buying replacements and accessories.
[+] [-] hollander|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johansch|9 years ago|reply
Who would ever expect Apple to do something like that? Oh wait...
[+] [-] sklivvz1971|9 years ago|reply
I get it that prosumers like to think of themselves as "hackers", but ...that's just not how it works. Come on.
[+] [-] carsongross|9 years ago|reply
The edges are very sharp, and the air vents on the bottom are right where you grab the laptop to pick it up, which gives it a knife-like feel. Also, by expanding the track pad far beyond it's useful size, there is now no gap between it and the space key. I have discovered that I have a habit of resting my thumb just below the space bar and now I tend to bump the pointer on accident now. The arrow keys are now a continuous run of keys with no way to orient quickly like previously (where the side arrows were slightly smaller and made it obvious where the up key was without looking.) . Finally, the keyboard action is very short, as you would expect with such a thin laptop.
I do most of my work with an external keyboard and monitor, so it isn't that big a deal to me, but I can see it being hard on people who use their laptop exclusively.
[+] [-] spacehacker|9 years ago|reply
The only attractive feature of the Touch Bar model really is Touch ID. If Apple would sell the Function Keys model with a Touch ID power button and one more USB port, I would happily buy it. But right now, I am a little bit confused and baffled by Apple's new MacBook Pro product line. I think I am going to wait another generation to see whether Apple gets back on track and whether the Touch Bar can stand the test of time.
[+] [-] jrheard|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lucideer|9 years ago|reply
Yes, it's a great feature, but giving Apple so much credit for introducing it is the ultimate irony.
[+] [-] guelo|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] madeofpalk|9 years ago|reply
> I’m sure it’s only a matter of time until Amazon is flooded with cheap versions of this idea that tweak it just enough to avoid patent issues. I look forward to buying $3 breakaway USB-C cables in the future.
Has this guy not seen what's going on with Amazon and the cheap USB-C cables that are flooding it[0]? They're literally destroying people's laptops by drawing too much power and frying either end.
[0]: http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/4/10916264/usb-c-russian-roul...
[+] [-] ianburrell|9 years ago|reply
Also, the charge cable is electronically marked for 5A. Regular USB-C cables only do 3A, which limits them to 60W with USB-PD.
[+] [-] Waterluvian|9 years ago|reply
If not, then they must be compliant USB-C ports and therefore would not be supplying an incorrect voltage. As far as I understand the fundamentals of electricity, current doesn't matter. A 5v USB power source that can supply 100 amps would still only supply whatever the device was designed to draw when charging.
But all of that is moot if the MacBook ports are "special" USB-C ports and somehow they negotiate a voltage higher than 5V.
[+] [-] rufius|9 years ago|reply
I've owned a few Macs and this one is my favorite. Despite my initial impressions, I really like the keyboard. I'm also quite happy with the trackpad which I've found to be excellent as usual and not picking up stray contact.
The only place I'm not "ecstatic" or "pleased" is with the TouchBar - and to be clear, I'm not displeased. I just don't really notice it. It's there doing its thing and I'm using the laptop, doing my thing. Occasionally I need the escape key and tap where I'd expect the escape key to be and while I don't get the tactile feedback it works.
All in all - the TouchBar is a net zero to me. I didn't lose anything by losing my Fn keys but I don't feel I gained anything with the TouchBar except TouchId which is nice.
TL;DR: Overpriced? Definitely. Pleased with product? Yes. TouchBar? No strong feelings. Returning it? No.
[+] [-] dom96|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nicky0|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SocratesV|9 years ago|reply
Have only tried typing a few lines in store and I also enjoyed it, but might be personal preference: use keyboard with Cherry MX Brown at home and got used to light/low-force actuation.
Getting a maxed out 13'' to replace my 2008 one.
[+] [-] steeve|9 years ago|reply
Some remarks:
- Keyboard, especially arrow keys, took me 2 days to get used to, but now it feels weird typing on a old macbook. I actually love it and prefer it now.
- The thumb + touchpad thing mentioned elsewhere here was definitely a big problem in the first day or two. It isn't anymore (guess I got used to it? not sure because I didn't try to avoid it)
- USB-C is freaking awesome. I bought an adapter with ethernet, HDMI, usb 3 and SD that actually replaces the 3 adapters I had to carry around. And because of UPD, I only have one cable to plug to the mac and everything is there including power.
- I don't miss magsafe as much as I thought I would. Although I would happily buy an adapter if it is thin enough (some are coming).
- Touchbar is actually pretty great, although it being a touch screen, the lack of touch feedback can be annoying at first. Pretty ESC is annoying at first, but I got used to it and don't mind it now.
- Touchbar would be an _awesome_ medium to get notifications (such as long running terminal jobs etc...)
- I didn't get any of the battery life issues people are talking about. Actually, I get 8-10 hours out of it easily (ie plug it at the end of the day because I forgot it was unplugged).
- Thinner bezels around the screen makes it somehow look bigger (even though the visible area is the same size and the screen/lid itself is smaller).
- HiDPi is freaking great. Finally I can use a 4k monitor smaller than 32" and still get retina display (1440p HiDPi and other intermediate resolutions up to native 3820x2160 are fully supported)
- It is really thin (no thinner that a Macbook Air, but still). It's feels really great.
- Actually, I just noticed that because it is thinner, my wrists don't get hurt by the edges like they used to (the exact opposite of what someone mentioned here).
[+] [-] BuuQu9hu|9 years ago|reply
As a daily user of various JetBrains IDEs, the lack of a proper keyboard makes the new MB Pro inconceivable for me. I'm actually going to have to go Win or Linux for my next machine.
[+] [-] function_seven|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gr2020|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spacehacker|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] albertgao|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] satysin|9 years ago|reply
But... I wish Apple would put USB-C in the iDevices (honestly why does the iPhone and iPad use Lightning when USB-C exists??). It is annoying that I can ditch all my cables except that one fucking extra Apple cable.
[+] [-] jws|9 years ago|reply
If I was on the hook to warranty replace $600 devices when the internal connector gets ruined I might take my time jumping on board too.
[+] [-] adamlett|9 years ago|reply
It didn't when Apple started using Lightning.
[+] [-] KirinDave|9 years ago|reply
USB-C is pretty great, actually. Still pretty raw for the mainstream tech crowd, but it's not like that for tech-literate consumers.
[+] [-] chmars|9 years ago|reply
Actually not, the convenient little 'arms' for the cord are missing. And the cord itself is rather stiff and not very flexible … and there's no green / red charging status light either. It's OK as a USB-C charger but it looks and feels different from a traditional MBP charger.
[+] [-] jsjohnst|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] toyg|9 years ago|reply
Author conveniently avoids mentioning that the charger is another usability step back (no more plastic hooks to keep cable tidy), or that those external USB-C batteries are not really powerful enough to give you anything but a handful of extra minutes, or that, er, Apple's own phone doesn't get any of these wonderful improvements. and of course...
> You can buy tiny little USB-C adapters
It's well-known that the current quality of USB-C cables and adapters is very random, to say the least, up to and including serious electrical damage.
Interoperability is good, but it looks like Apple just introduced a new series of trade-offs that are sub-optimal. Regardless, to say that a laptop is great "for hackers" because it has USB (A,B,C, whatever) ports is just silly. I mean, you can't even change your hard drive here.
[+] [-] albertgao|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gnicholas|9 years ago|reply
I've never even thought of bringing a phone wall charger with me when I have my laptop and laptop charger. Just plug the phone into the laptop if it needs charging.
[+] [-] dman|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TTPrograms|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rasz_pl|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hobarrera|9 years ago|reply
But we can't do the same old things we NEED to do, like keep using all our existing cables and devices (including mice!). Really, if they wanted to merely transition to USB-C, they could have included 2 new ports, and 2 old ports. No need to eliminate the old USB ports in just one generation.
Regarding the "it's the same plug as your phone":
It's not! iPhones have lightning cable (ironically, their own phone!).
[+] [-] wsgeorge|9 years ago|reply
This. Dropping all the old ports was a step too far, I think. It's forward looking, but it's an inconvenience today.
I'm sure a smoother transition would've been more welcome.