Movies are a waste of a perfectly good dimension. Give me a good radioshow any day instead of all this newfangled motion picture business. I may be an old man that's been around forever, but I'm always right, and here's why:
1. IT'S THE WASTE OF A DIMENSION.
When you listen to a good radioshow it'a already a moving picture as far as the mind is concerned. Adding one dimension artificially can make the illusion less convincing.
2. IT ADDS NOTHING TO THE EXPERIENCE.
Recall the greatest radioshow experiences of your lifetime. Did it "need" pictures? A great radioshow completely engages our imaginations.
4. IT CAN CREATE NAUSEA AND HEADACHES.
AS motion picture equipment was being introduced at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in January, Reuters interviewed two leading scientists. "There are a lot of people walking around with very minor eye problems for example, a muscle imbalance which under normal circumstances the brain deals with naturally,"
6. THERE'S MONEY TO BE MADE IN SELLING NEW MOTION PICTURE EQUIPMENT.
These projectors are not selling themselves. There was initial opposition from radiostations to the huge cost of new equipment and the loss of marketingshare they are sure to see.
You might be old but not always right...and here's why
1. If one wants to create a world per his imagination why not let him and let him share it? Why listen to the radio when you can read the book or the script and leave your imagination do the rest. Even debates are better on screen as body language tells way more than the grunts and sighs that can only be heard.
2. It adds a lot to the experience. You will be seeing someone else's imagination and that can be different than yours.
4. Yes it can. You still have radio if you experience this. Height can give you nausea too and that's why it needed a bunch of people without these "affections" to erect the first skyscrapers which you can benefit from and marvel at.
6. If no money is being made of a technological advancement then it gets forgotten and abandoned. Radio was a big business too and still is.
I couldn't agree more with this guy, as former film maker, enthusiast, I've found the 3D movies to be a range of uncomfortable to distracting. Most importantly 3D is used to distract from the fact that the stories are 1D and disinteresting. Avatar... terrible movie.
You know what the best form of immersion is, a compelling story, and characters that make me care about them. The movies that I love have filled that role without the use of fancy 3D cameras, and giant blue cats.
If you were even to look at films in the same genre, 2001 : a space odyssey would be a perfect example. It used special effects to convey a sense of futurism, and to keep you locked in the world Kubrick created, but they weren't the center piece, the center piece was always the story (as an aside, I think the effects of 2001 still look more photo real than avatar).
I love that you referred to one of the most famous critics of our time as "this guy". The internet has enabled so many people to voice their opinions, that well known folk sometimes become just another guy.
I have yet to go to a 3D movie where I felt 3D really added to the experience. Avatar came close, and there were times when it was really cool, but there were also times when I turned my head or something didn't line up right and 3D took me out of the movie. Maybe a part of that is that right now the tech is immature, but I know that every time I've paid for 3D it's felt like a ripoff.
Ebert's point on focus really hits home for me. When you are watching a movie in 3D it feels like I should be able to focus my eyes anywhere I like, instead of accepting the focus the director has chosen in traditional movies. When I want to look at something in the background in a 3D movie, I expect to be able to focus on it. So either all 3D movies need to be filmed with really high depth of field, or 3D will always feel broken.
Even infinite depth of field wouldn't completely solve the problem. The point is, your eyes have to physically focus on the far away screen the entire time, or the whole movie becomes blurry (obviously). When you're looking at a "near" object, there's always a mismatch between its apparent distance and the focus point of your eyes. And as you pointed out, you can't turn your head.
However, given these limitations, I've found 3D movies to be a great experience. In the case of Avatar in particular, an important point of the movie was how the protagonist becomes part of the alien world, and I felt that the 3D environment really helped the audience to get the same feeling. YMMV of course.
What's really a rip-off is all those movies now that were converted to 3D in post production. It's a bit like manually coloring a black-and-white photo before color film was available -- it may look kind of okay if you don't look too closely, but it's not the real thing. The flat faces in particular make people look like cardboard cutouts.
The low framerate (24fps) became very noticeable for foreground objects for me, I think because their apparent velocity caused insufficient overlap between successive images. But I haven't noticed this in conventional movies - was it due to 3D, or was the shot chosen to take advantage of 3D when it would normally be avoided?
My favourite 3D sequence in Avatar was when the heroine dropped-in on her dragon, falling away from us. Very cool and effective. I think a skateboarding documentary would be awesome in 3D (or any activity that is intensely 3D from the POV of the performer).
After finally seeing Avatar in 2D I'm convinced 3D was the only thing it had going for it. As I lulled through the movie there were times when I thought "Yeah, this scene would look cooler in pseudo-3D." I don't think it did a very good job of backwards-compatibility.
How to Train Your Dragon, though, was still quite enjoyable in 2D and I hear it was well done in 3D without going overboard.
I'm really curious how people reacted when sound was introduced...then color.
Nowadays everyone seems to be a critic and anything you give them they see a drawback to it and sometimes this behavior feels just too forced.
It is turning into: back in the days thing...
When actors were actors not animated characters etc. Remember back in the days the frame-rate was given by the projector fellow's hand steadiness and now we can control it. It has to start from somewhere.
As for me, Sony did some cool engineering to make Avatar possible and Cameron financed this awesome project. For me that is a winner. I enjoyed the 3D experience a lot.
And my hero, Werner Herzog, is using 3-D to film prehistoric cave paintings in France, to better show off the concavities of the ancient caves. He told me that nothing will "approach" the audience, and his film will stay behind the plane of the screen. In other words, nothing will hurtle at the audience, and 3-D will allow us the illusion of being able to occupy the space with the paintings and look into them, experiencing them as a prehistoric artist standing in the cavern might have.
That sounds awesome.
Even though it was great fun watching Avatar in IMAX and in 3D, I can't help but cringe at all the wasted plastic used for the glasses.
There are several competing theatrical 3D systems: RealD, Dolby 3D, XpanD. Their technologies are completely different: respectively polarisation, wavelength multiplexing, shutter glasses.
Only RealD uses cheap disposable glasses. In Dolby 3D and XpanD, the glasses are fairly expensive to produce, and thus are recycled (collected from the audience after the show, washed and redistributed).
Americans seem to overwhelmingly prefer RealD, while Dolby 3D and XpanD dominate in Europe. Anyone surprised? :)
I think the biggest limitation of 3D, that is not shared by sound or color or other cinema technologies, is that it has limited ability for the director to stylistically alter the scene. It's limited to faithful and accurate reproductions, and that limits its ability to be used for artistic purposes.
Color can be used, and more importantly altered, to adjust the audience's perception, by giving characters and scenes psychologically/culturally-loaded color pallets. Smaller and more nimble cameras allow for all sorts of cinematographic shenanigans that subtly manipulate the audience's view by playing with the background while maintaining the foreground. Sound allows an actor another channel to convey emotion, and allowing spoken words instead of text allow for more interactive dialogue, which presents greater options for showing the relationships between characters. Sound also allows for narration, which allows the juxtaposition of exposition and demonstration.
The point of all of this, is that all of these technologies give the director additional tools with which to communicate, and using those tools, there are ways in which the cerebral stimulation or emotional impact of the film can be enhanced. Even the most gratuitous of CG effects can be used to good effect, even though 95% of CG is used for bigger and more impressive explosions. E.g., Children of Men makes excellent use of cinematography and CG enhancements, in order to add to the emotional impact of scenes and to add craptons of cultural allusions to the background.
By contrast, I don't see how 3D can be used to alter or enhance reality in a way that has meaning. It's largely limited to faithfully reproducing a real or realistic scene. You can make something appear closer or further than it otherwise would... I don't see the use case.
This is not to say that it can't be done. I'm not a film maker, and I'm obviously not aware of the full scope of what can be done. Maybe there is some crazy mind-bending case, and I'd love to see it. I love it when technologies are pushed beyond their boundaries to good effect. But I honestly don't think that there are ways to push the envelope of this technology. I think it's limited to realistic reproductions of reality. With that limitation, the film maker cannot use 3D to communicate something that he could not otherwise have communicated.
The only thing that additional mechanical accuracy adds is "immersion," which isn't really useful outside of escapist fiction. I, personally, am not very excited about the idea of more effective escapist fiction. Obviously, all new technical achievements in film lend themselves to bigger better escapist fiction, and often get invented for those use cases first. I have no problem with bigger better escapist fiction because I can just choose not to watch it. But, unlike other technical advancements in cinema, I don't think 3D has use outside of escapist fiction, which to me, makes it a rather lackluster achievement. It advances the craft of filmmaking without advancing the art.
[e]: I don't believe that 3D is entirely without potential. I'm outlining why I'm skeptical.
Consider how 3D works... no, not the cameras and projectors, the brain. It is "well known" that the brain detects how far away something is by measuring how much the eyes have to cross for the two images to converge. What seems to be much less well known, though it is obvious with elementary geometry, is that the breaks down as you get further and further away, as the difference in angles becomes smaller and smaller. And it's only a few tens of feet.
Beyond that, you brain uses numerous context clues to assemble a 3D image of the environment; one big one is occlusion, for instance; a thing that is visibly in front of another thing is clearly closer.
3D technology can only really use the eye-difference thing. Conventional 2D technology is already perfectly good at all the other clues. (Try playing a 3D game sometime and simply trying to see it in 3D; you may find that it's perfectly possible and merely a perspective shift much like seeing the vase or the face in the classical optical illusion.) Consequently, you end up with an effect where everything is either taking place on a very small stage in front of you, or still stuck to the background in totally normal 2D. In the worst case, the background is a visible plane, like a skybox.
There is no way around this limitation. It's fundamental.
A space fight, which sounds like it would be awesome in 3D, is actually fundamentally a 2D thing, when it comes to projection technology. If any bit of the space fight is within you 3D-binocular-vision range, you're probably already dead. It may look awesome, but simultaneously, it is going to look like a toy, intrinsically, because if it is in 3D, it is equally obviously a space fight between two spaceship toys taking place about twenty feet in front of you.
I'm not saying there's no place for 3D, but I'm not exactly holding my breath. Someday, I suspect we'll look back on this series of 3D movies as slightly more sophisticated than the ones from decades past, but only slightly, committing all sorts of "blindingly obvious" scale errors and other such things.
For me, "How to train your dragon" was the most enjoyable 3D experience of all the 3D films I've seen - Avatar, Alice, Clash, HTTYD. The 3D didn't get in the way, and it really enhanced certain parts to the extent that I'd miss it. I've seen this film twice!
Coming to think of it, colour films are pretty useless too. What extra enjoyment do you get from colour films that you can't get from B&W films? Any hitchcock, chaplin, etc. fans here?
"IT ADDS NOTHING TO THE EXPERIENCE." - That's plain BS. It does for me.
"IT CAN BE A DISTRACTION." - Maybe, but so is Eastman color. We're still figuring out the art of it ... and making great progress imo.
"IT CAN CREATE NAUSEA AND HEADACHES." - Even normal film can cause epileptic attacks. So what?
Don't forget that Hitchcock made a 3D movie -- Dial M For Murder was originally done in 3D, and in fact I've never seen it in 2D. There's exactly one moment where the 3D becomes worthwhile, it's where (spoiler alert) the woman getting attacked desperately reaches out onto the desk, towards the audience and picks up the shiny letter opener...
Color, when used by a good director, adds a lot of subtle semantic content to a movie. See some old Almodovar movies, or maybe Kieslowksy's Three Colors trilogy, or even The Matrix. Color adds information that wasn't already there in black-and-white, just like movement and sound adds a lot of information that weren't already there in comic books.
Well, I think 3D has no place in the cinema. Films have been and films are an art form consisting of two-dimensional moving pictures. You can't change that, just as you can't say that a three-dimensional computer image is just a form of painting, just 3D.
However, I think that the 3D is a new art form of its own, and it's only at its developing stage at the time. 3D may not be the right medium for what we consider good films as the 3D projections are not of the same art as traditional cinematic films. We will see what experiences the 3D turns out to produce, but it's probably going to find other uses than emulating films.
In the 1950s, it was novel and driven by audiences, who really wanted to see something in 3D. In 2010 it's mostly being pushed by the theaters, who are desperate to have something they can offer people that they can't get by watching Blu-Rays on 50-inch TVs at home, aside from the experience of eating half a ton of popcorn and listening to some jerk on his phone.
In Chaplin's autobiography there is a part about the first movies that weren't silent. Everyone was used to silent films, and even Chaplin felt, that speech might hurt his character. I agree 3D movies are different, but they are here, and it is very probable that they will stay. So instead of telling people why 3D sucks, you could ask this: How can filmmakers improve 3D experience?
I bet the first color movies looked like little more than a gimmick, too.
Now, I did see Avatar in 3D. I was curious. I was also underwhelmed, and I agree with all of the technical limitations everyone has mentioned. (Particularly the darker picture). But I'm not naive enough to claim I know what will happen in the future.
It was said that movies are the bane of society.
Instead of the immersive story telling of books. Here, moving pictures replace the imagination and wisdom of stories.
It always takes time to learn how to use a new technology.
And it takes time for the market to be full enough when "just using the new tech" is no longer enough.
I am hopeful that they will learn how to use 3D to add depth to the story, not their pockets.
I like that Ebert made it clear that he is not generally opposed to technological innovation in the arts, he just doesn't see much artistic use for 3D.
Had I been around when movies were invented, I'm sure I would have been inspired by the possibilities. Likewise with sound and with color, each of which added a whole new dimension to film. Does 3D inspire you creatively? Can you see more than one or two clever experiments before it becomes just an extra layer of butter on the popcorn?
He makes good points though. Avatar did cause dizziness for me, for example. And at times I had a hard time focusing my eyes on the right things to get the 3D effect. I surely hope it's not the future of movies!
It always takes time to learn how to use a new technology.
Is 55 years enough? Because that's how long it's been since the boomlet in 3D movies in the early 1950s. The 3D technology then -- linear polarized images -- was only slightly different from the circular polarization dominating today's 3D offerings.
The special effects -- especially computerized -- that can give 3D some extra sizzle have improved and become more cheap. Audiences are wealthier and more novelty-seeking. But 3D still involves downsides that aren't needed for most storytelling -- making some people ill or distracted, lingering focus issues, shrinking the number of angles/seats in a theater that give a good view, increasing production costs, washed out colors.
I expect 3D to continue oscillating in popularity over the years, at a slightly higher background level of use, but never becoming the usual/majority format. (Or, by the time 3D does become dominant, there will have been such major advances in displays that movies are no longer displayed on giant screens, but sent to each viewers' eye-mounted heads-up display, or neural-visual interface.)
At Broadcast Asia 2008, I saw a football game displayed on a multi-HD resolution screen (I think 12x HD, but not sure) @60fps. I should say it took the audience to the game. You can tell individual faces in a packed pavilion. Its all moving in the right direction - more fun.
This discussion shouldn't be about 3D, it should be about motion pictures more closely approaching the experience of reality. Sure, 3D technologies today are kind of crappy, but it's part of the technological evolution process. Eventually, we're going to have movies that feel so real you can't tell the difference between the movie and reality. That is the goal. Fake 3D is just the first step, I think.
(When the first motion pictures were displayed for audiences on large screens, they also caused nausea and dizziness. In some theaters where the images projected were exceptionally large, people were even provided with vomit bags like on early airplanes. The technology improved and overcame these drawbacks.)
You're describing theater with special effects and JIT scene changes. I thing it's a fabulous premise and I've been thinking the same about the supposed destination of 3D movies.
It is unsuitable for grown-up films of any seriousness. It limits the freedom of directors to make films as they choose.
I fully agree with him at this point in time. I think once 3D gets more mainstream young directors will find ways to make use of this new medium.
A lot of the points that Ebert raises are similar to ones raised when sound was beginning to be added to the films in the 1920s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_film). For example "Sufficient playback volume was also hard to achieve"Current problem is that Hollywood uses 3D just to project inherently 2D designed movies on screen, except for some shock scenes where a snake comes at you, etc. This limits its use to juvenilia or "blockbusters" like Avatar. That doesn't mean it's always going to be that way.
It's interesting that a sort of Innovator's Dilemma biases people who are in the movie making business. For example, Chaplin saw little value in talkies: "Chaplin firmly believed that “silent film's message reaches the entire spectrum of ‘intellectual and the rank and file’" (http://www.articledashboard.com/Article/Charlie-Chaplin-and-...) and his sentiment was shared by many actors and producers.
There are several things that bother me with the current 3D craze.
First - and I'll admit this makes me biased - I'm blind in one eye. This means that it doesn't matter what technology they use, I'm not going to be able to see the movie in 3D.
Second, the only movie I tried to watch in 3D (in the last 10 years), was Coraline. It was a great film, but having to wear the glasses meant the film was very dark.
Third, I've yet to talk to anyone who didn't come out of the film without either a headache or at least a somewhat spacey feeling. The technology strains your eyes, and while I don't believe it causes any lasting damage, it still leaves you worn out after the film. Or maybe my friends and I are just too old.
Still, as far as I'm concerned, as long as you have to wear special glasses, 3D movies aren't likely to be considered a normal part of going to the movies.
I disagree. I've definitely seen movies where 3D added to the experience. Was the 3D vital? No. But then neither was the colour - the films would still have been good in black and white, but the colour added to the experience.
Sure, it can be done badly, but that's hardly the fault of the technology.
There is some merit to his comments. I recently watched Avatar in HD at home with my gf 5 and 8 year old. Both said they liked it more because it was 'clearer and brighter'. When I pressed the 8 year old he said that he thought he could see more detail in the background.
People said the same thing about sound. And color. And widescreen. And so on.
Attack the films themselves, not the medium. It's only going to be as good as the artist who uses it. Don't fear new technology, even if you are an over-the-hill critic.
I agree, this reminds me of how people would get up in arms about 2d artwork created on a computer.
Sadly, many people confuse craftsmanship for art, this leaves people who like things the way they are angry, and those who want the new shiny drooling over crappy art that happens to use new tools.
This all brings to mind Duchamp's 'Fountain', and various people's reaction to it. It's amusing how some debates never end.
What Hollywood needs is a "premium" experience that is obviously, dramatically better than anything at home, suitable for films aimed at all ages, and worth a surcharge. For years I've been praising a process invented by Dean Goodhill called MaxiVision48, which uses existing film technology but shoots at 48 frames per second and provides smooth projection that is absolutely jiggle-free.
I'm not sure why Ebert thinks this technology will draw moviegoers out of their homes. Many HD TVs and console games run at 60 fps. High-fps movies would leak into the home far faster than 3D has.
[+] [-] mixmax|16 years ago|reply
1. IT'S THE WASTE OF A DIMENSION. When you listen to a good radioshow it'a already a moving picture as far as the mind is concerned. Adding one dimension artificially can make the illusion less convincing.
2. IT ADDS NOTHING TO THE EXPERIENCE. Recall the greatest radioshow experiences of your lifetime. Did it "need" pictures? A great radioshow completely engages our imaginations.
4. IT CAN CREATE NAUSEA AND HEADACHES. AS motion picture equipment was being introduced at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in January, Reuters interviewed two leading scientists. "There are a lot of people walking around with very minor eye problems for example, a muscle imbalance which under normal circumstances the brain deals with naturally,"
6. THERE'S MONEY TO BE MADE IN SELLING NEW MOTION PICTURE EQUIPMENT. These projectors are not selling themselves. There was initial opposition from radiostations to the huge cost of new equipment and the loss of marketingshare they are sure to see.
Now get off my lawn kid.
[+] [-] sonofjanoh|16 years ago|reply
1. If one wants to create a world per his imagination why not let him and let him share it? Why listen to the radio when you can read the book or the script and leave your imagination do the rest. Even debates are better on screen as body language tells way more than the grunts and sighs that can only be heard.
2. It adds a lot to the experience. You will be seeing someone else's imagination and that can be different than yours.
4. Yes it can. You still have radio if you experience this. Height can give you nausea too and that's why it needed a bunch of people without these "affections" to erect the first skyscrapers which you can benefit from and marvel at.
6. If no money is being made of a technological advancement then it gets forgotten and abandoned. Radio was a big business too and still is.
[+] [-] joegaudet|16 years ago|reply
You know what the best form of immersion is, a compelling story, and characters that make me care about them. The movies that I love have filled that role without the use of fancy 3D cameras, and giant blue cats.
If you were even to look at films in the same genre, 2001 : a space odyssey would be a perfect example. It used special effects to convey a sense of futurism, and to keep you locked in the world Kubrick created, but they weren't the center piece, the center piece was always the story (as an aside, I think the effects of 2001 still look more photo real than avatar).
As always my 0.02 dollars.
[+] [-] dhyasama|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tom_ilsinszki|16 years ago|reply
The only question is, which movie will it be.
[+] [-] macrael|16 years ago|reply
Ebert's point on focus really hits home for me. When you are watching a movie in 3D it feels like I should be able to focus my eyes anywhere I like, instead of accepting the focus the director has chosen in traditional movies. When I want to look at something in the background in a 3D movie, I expect to be able to focus on it. So either all 3D movies need to be filmed with really high depth of field, or 3D will always feel broken.
[+] [-] fh|16 years ago|reply
However, given these limitations, I've found 3D movies to be a great experience. In the case of Avatar in particular, an important point of the movie was how the protagonist becomes part of the alien world, and I felt that the 3D environment really helped the audience to get the same feeling. YMMV of course.
What's really a rip-off is all those movies now that were converted to 3D in post production. It's a bit like manually coloring a black-and-white photo before color film was available -- it may look kind of okay if you don't look too closely, but it's not the real thing. The flat faces in particular make people look like cardboard cutouts.
[+] [-] 10ren|16 years ago|reply
My favourite 3D sequence in Avatar was when the heroine dropped-in on her dragon, falling away from us. Very cool and effective. I think a skateboarding documentary would be awesome in 3D (or any activity that is intensely 3D from the POV of the performer).
[+] [-] Jach|16 years ago|reply
How to Train Your Dragon, though, was still quite enjoyable in 2D and I hear it was well done in 3D without going overboard.
[+] [-] sonofjanoh|16 years ago|reply
It is turning into: back in the days thing... When actors were actors not animated characters etc. Remember back in the days the frame-rate was given by the projector fellow's hand steadiness and now we can control it. It has to start from somewhere. As for me, Sony did some cool engineering to make Avatar possible and Cameron financed this awesome project. For me that is a winner. I enjoyed the 3D experience a lot.
[+] [-] cdr|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RevRal|16 years ago|reply
And my hero, Werner Herzog, is using 3-D to film prehistoric cave paintings in France, to better show off the concavities of the ancient caves. He told me that nothing will "approach" the audience, and his film will stay behind the plane of the screen. In other words, nothing will hurtle at the audience, and 3-D will allow us the illusion of being able to occupy the space with the paintings and look into them, experiencing them as a prehistoric artist standing in the cavern might have.
That sounds awesome.
Even though it was great fun watching Avatar in IMAX and in 3D, I can't help but cringe at all the wasted plastic used for the glasses.
[+] [-] pavlov|16 years ago|reply
Only RealD uses cheap disposable glasses. In Dolby 3D and XpanD, the glasses are fairly expensive to produce, and thus are recycled (collected from the audience after the show, washed and redistributed).
Americans seem to overwhelmingly prefer RealD, while Dolby 3D and XpanD dominate in Europe. Anyone surprised? :)
[+] [-] DannoHung|16 years ago|reply
We don't actually have any options in the way of 3D movie technology.
[+] [-] lmkg|16 years ago|reply
Color can be used, and more importantly altered, to adjust the audience's perception, by giving characters and scenes psychologically/culturally-loaded color pallets. Smaller and more nimble cameras allow for all sorts of cinematographic shenanigans that subtly manipulate the audience's view by playing with the background while maintaining the foreground. Sound allows an actor another channel to convey emotion, and allowing spoken words instead of text allow for more interactive dialogue, which presents greater options for showing the relationships between characters. Sound also allows for narration, which allows the juxtaposition of exposition and demonstration.
The point of all of this, is that all of these technologies give the director additional tools with which to communicate, and using those tools, there are ways in which the cerebral stimulation or emotional impact of the film can be enhanced. Even the most gratuitous of CG effects can be used to good effect, even though 95% of CG is used for bigger and more impressive explosions. E.g., Children of Men makes excellent use of cinematography and CG enhancements, in order to add to the emotional impact of scenes and to add craptons of cultural allusions to the background.
By contrast, I don't see how 3D can be used to alter or enhance reality in a way that has meaning. It's largely limited to faithfully reproducing a real or realistic scene. You can make something appear closer or further than it otherwise would... I don't see the use case.
This is not to say that it can't be done. I'm not a film maker, and I'm obviously not aware of the full scope of what can be done. Maybe there is some crazy mind-bending case, and I'd love to see it. I love it when technologies are pushed beyond their boundaries to good effect. But I honestly don't think that there are ways to push the envelope of this technology. I think it's limited to realistic reproductions of reality. With that limitation, the film maker cannot use 3D to communicate something that he could not otherwise have communicated.
The only thing that additional mechanical accuracy adds is "immersion," which isn't really useful outside of escapist fiction. I, personally, am not very excited about the idea of more effective escapist fiction. Obviously, all new technical achievements in film lend themselves to bigger better escapist fiction, and often get invented for those use cases first. I have no problem with bigger better escapist fiction because I can just choose not to watch it. But, unlike other technical advancements in cinema, I don't think 3D has use outside of escapist fiction, which to me, makes it a rather lackluster achievement. It advances the craft of filmmaking without advancing the art.
[e]: I don't believe that 3D is entirely without potential. I'm outlining why I'm skeptical.
[+] [-] jerf|16 years ago|reply
Consider how 3D works... no, not the cameras and projectors, the brain. It is "well known" that the brain detects how far away something is by measuring how much the eyes have to cross for the two images to converge. What seems to be much less well known, though it is obvious with elementary geometry, is that the breaks down as you get further and further away, as the difference in angles becomes smaller and smaller. And it's only a few tens of feet.
Beyond that, you brain uses numerous context clues to assemble a 3D image of the environment; one big one is occlusion, for instance; a thing that is visibly in front of another thing is clearly closer.
3D technology can only really use the eye-difference thing. Conventional 2D technology is already perfectly good at all the other clues. (Try playing a 3D game sometime and simply trying to see it in 3D; you may find that it's perfectly possible and merely a perspective shift much like seeing the vase or the face in the classical optical illusion.) Consequently, you end up with an effect where everything is either taking place on a very small stage in front of you, or still stuck to the background in totally normal 2D. In the worst case, the background is a visible plane, like a skybox.
There is no way around this limitation. It's fundamental.
A space fight, which sounds like it would be awesome in 3D, is actually fundamentally a 2D thing, when it comes to projection technology. If any bit of the space fight is within you 3D-binocular-vision range, you're probably already dead. It may look awesome, but simultaneously, it is going to look like a toy, intrinsically, because if it is in 3D, it is equally obviously a space fight between two spaceship toys taking place about twenty feet in front of you.
I'm not saying there's no place for 3D, but I'm not exactly holding my breath. Someday, I suspect we'll look back on this series of 3D movies as slightly more sophisticated than the ones from decades past, but only slightly, committing all sorts of "blindingly obvious" scale errors and other such things.
[+] [-] aufreak3|16 years ago|reply
Coming to think of it, colour films are pretty useless too. What extra enjoyment do you get from colour films that you can't get from B&W films? Any hitchcock, chaplin, etc. fans here?
"IT ADDS NOTHING TO THE EXPERIENCE." - That's plain BS. It does for me.
"IT CAN BE A DISTRACTION." - Maybe, but so is Eastman color. We're still figuring out the art of it ... and making great progress imo.
"IT CAN CREATE NAUSEA AND HEADACHES." - Even normal film can cause epileptic attacks. So what?
[+] [-] hugh3|16 years ago|reply
Don't forget that Hitchcock made a 3D movie -- Dial M For Murder was originally done in 3D, and in fact I've never seen it in 2D. There's exactly one moment where the 3D becomes worthwhile, it's where (spoiler alert) the woman getting attacked desperately reaches out onto the desk, towards the audience and picks up the shiny letter opener...
[+] [-] alextp|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yason|16 years ago|reply
However, I think that the 3D is a new art form of its own, and it's only at its developing stage at the time. 3D may not be the right medium for what we consider good films as the 3D projections are not of the same art as traditional cinematic films. We will see what experiences the 3D turns out to produce, but it's probably going to find other uses than emulating films.
[+] [-] axod|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hugh3|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jessriedel|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tom_ilsinszki|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blue1|16 years ago|reply
Good expressive results for new technologies take some time to be discovered.
[+] [-] scott_s|16 years ago|reply
Now, I did see Avatar in 3D. I was curious. I was also underwhelmed, and I agree with all of the technical limitations everyone has mentioned. (Particularly the darker picture). But I'm not naive enough to claim I know what will happen in the future.
[+] [-] Murkin|16 years ago|reply
Maybe he should take a peek at 100 years ago.
It was said that movies are the bane of society. Instead of the immersive story telling of books. Here, moving pictures replace the imagination and wisdom of stories.
It always takes time to learn how to use a new technology. And it takes time for the market to be full enough when "just using the new tech" is no longer enough.
I am hopeful that they will learn how to use 3D to add depth to the story, not their pockets.
[+] [-] extension|16 years ago|reply
Had I been around when movies were invented, I'm sure I would have been inspired by the possibilities. Likewise with sound and with color, each of which added a whole new dimension to film. Does 3D inspire you creatively? Can you see more than one or two clever experiments before it becomes just an extra layer of butter on the popcorn?
[+] [-] Rauchg|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gojomo|16 years ago|reply
Is 55 years enough? Because that's how long it's been since the boomlet in 3D movies in the early 1950s. The 3D technology then -- linear polarized images -- was only slightly different from the circular polarization dominating today's 3D offerings.
The special effects -- especially computerized -- that can give 3D some extra sizzle have improved and become more cheap. Audiences are wealthier and more novelty-seeking. But 3D still involves downsides that aren't needed for most storytelling -- making some people ill or distracted, lingering focus issues, shrinking the number of angles/seats in a theater that give a good view, increasing production costs, washed out colors.
I expect 3D to continue oscillating in popularity over the years, at a slightly higher background level of use, but never becoming the usual/majority format. (Or, by the time 3D does become dominant, there will have been such major advances in displays that movies are no longer displayed on giant screens, but sent to each viewers' eye-mounted heads-up display, or neural-visual interface.)
[+] [-] Raphael|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] naz|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aufreak3|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] RevRal|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dcurtis|16 years ago|reply
This discussion shouldn't be about 3D, it should be about motion pictures more closely approaching the experience of reality. Sure, 3D technologies today are kind of crappy, but it's part of the technological evolution process. Eventually, we're going to have movies that feel so real you can't tell the difference between the movie and reality. That is the goal. Fake 3D is just the first step, I think.
(When the first motion pictures were displayed for audiences on large screens, they also caused nausea and dizziness. In some theaters where the images projected were exceptionally large, people were even provided with vomit bags like on early airplanes. The technology improved and overcame these drawbacks.)
[+] [-] gdee|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Jun8|16 years ago|reply
I fully agree with him at this point in time. I think once 3D gets more mainstream young directors will find ways to make use of this new medium.
A lot of the points that Ebert raises are similar to ones raised when sound was beginning to be added to the films in the 1920s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_film). For example "Sufficient playback volume was also hard to achieve"Current problem is that Hollywood uses 3D just to project inherently 2D designed movies on screen, except for some shock scenes where a snake comes at you, etc. This limits its use to juvenilia or "blockbusters" like Avatar. That doesn't mean it's always going to be that way.
It's interesting that a sort of Innovator's Dilemma biases people who are in the movie making business. For example, Chaplin saw little value in talkies: "Chaplin firmly believed that “silent film's message reaches the entire spectrum of ‘intellectual and the rank and file’" (http://www.articledashboard.com/Article/Charlie-Chaplin-and-...) and his sentiment was shared by many actors and producers.
[+] [-] tallanvor|16 years ago|reply
First - and I'll admit this makes me biased - I'm blind in one eye. This means that it doesn't matter what technology they use, I'm not going to be able to see the movie in 3D.
Second, the only movie I tried to watch in 3D (in the last 10 years), was Coraline. It was a great film, but having to wear the glasses meant the film was very dark.
Third, I've yet to talk to anyone who didn't come out of the film without either a headache or at least a somewhat spacey feeling. The technology strains your eyes, and while I don't believe it causes any lasting damage, it still leaves you worn out after the film. Or maybe my friends and I are just too old.
Still, as far as I'm concerned, as long as you have to wear special glasses, 3D movies aren't likely to be considered a normal part of going to the movies.
[+] [-] AndrewDucker|16 years ago|reply
Sure, it can be done badly, but that's hardly the fault of the technology.
[+] [-] evo_9|16 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ktf|16 years ago|reply
Attack the films themselves, not the medium. It's only going to be as good as the artist who uses it. Don't fear new technology, even if you are an over-the-hill critic.
[+] [-] andrewvc|16 years ago|reply
Sadly, many people confuse craftsmanship for art, this leaves people who like things the way they are angry, and those who want the new shiny drooling over crappy art that happens to use new tools.
This all brings to mind Duchamp's 'Fountain', and various people's reaction to it. It's amusing how some debates never end.
[+] [-] jcl|16 years ago|reply
I'm not sure why Ebert thinks this technology will draw moviegoers out of their homes. Many HD TVs and console games run at 60 fps. High-fps movies would leak into the home far faster than 3D has.