Regarding the "is it plugged in?" question. A great anecdote I heard was that the support person on the phone asked if the power plug was clean. The user was confused. The support person told them to unplug it, blow the dust out of the holes, and plug it back in. This fixed the problem!
The issue was that the power plug was in the socket, but too loose to connect. Somehow, the support person figured this was the case (prior experience?) and knew that if he asked "is it plugged in?" he would get a "yes". Taking the power plug out and putting it back in ensured that it would be in properly. But just asking the person to do that can be faced with push-back or even a lie that they did it (since the power plug obviously was already connected).
I always chuckled at the story but did not think it was true. I worked tech support while attending university. One time, I had an on-site where the monitor just stopped working. We went through the standard question on the phone, including asking if it is plugged in, and of course it was. Could not get it fixed over the phone. Once on-site, it turned out it was a loose power cable.
I could have avoided an on-site had I only asked them to blow the dust out of the power cable. Maybe this should be added to the questionnaire.
I used to work as an installer for a wireless-isp and we supported some very rural areas as well as an urban area. I typically did the urban area but I grew up in one of the very rural areas so I could appreciate how badly people wanted their internets out there.
At one point I had to service some of the rural areas when the installer for that area quit and had one service request that I was sure would be fixed by a simple power cycle but wasn't. "Are you sure you unplugged the right thing?" I asked, and "If I come all the way out there and power cycle it and it works I'll have to charge you, do you understand?" I warned, he understood but wasn't worried because he knew that wasn't it.
After a nearly 2 hour drive out into the utter boondocks, I go inside and check the POE injector, unplug it and plug it back in. 20 seconds later I check his internet through his own router: golden (or as golden as you can be over a waverider 900Mhz link). He had just been unplugging his own router and plugging it back in over and over. In retrospect I could have made him physically trace the power cord but there was still a good 10% chance the unit actually had a problem.
People in the rural areas were really nice about everything though, being on 56k until 2010 makes you appreciate whatever broadband you can get. He just laughed and got his checkbook, in the city people complained when you told them the bill an hour after telling them what the charge would be over the phone.
Many years ago in my first job (1988) I was diagnosing a Unix printing problem on a machine remotely (dialed in via modems).
There was an IBM engineer on site who insisted it was a software problem - I was on the phone to him and he was getting rather annoyed with me and I asked the inevitable "Is it actually plugged into the power?" which got him very angry that I would have the cheek to suggest that he hadn't checked that.
Then the phone went silent for a bit and he said "Try now".
Power supply was plugged into the power but the power cable from the supply wasn't plugged into the printer.
Edit: I'm sure I've been the guilty party in similar scenarios myself a few times, though hopefully not more than once in any particular context.
Apple did that on the iPod manuals. They wouldn't say "make sure the lock button is unlocked" (because duh, of course it's unlocked), they would say "turn the button to the lock and then the unlock position".
When I worked tech support for a small regional cable ISP, I'd always tell people they had to "ground out any built-up static" on their cable line. This process involved unplugging the modem, unscrewing the coax connector, tapping the middle pin with a pen or pencil, and plugging it all back in.
A few jobs ago (factory automation), we had a story from one of our projects where a device (would have been a PLC or relay panel) was failing. Rather than dust, metal filings had gotten into the case and were shorting out connections. A "quick" cleanup, and the device was working again.
I did that kind of thing all the time when I did phone tech support. If I suspected that a cable wasn't plugged in or was in the wrong port or whatever, I'd have people unplug everything and plug it back in all the time. It fixed a lot of problems, especially with home routers/switches.
I would add a "I don't know" option. Family members who need tech support from me are generally unable to answer things like:
> Is your device up to date?
First, they aren't familiar with what is considered a "device". Does it mean the calendar app on the phone (where they see observed problems)? Surely it can't mean their iPad, because that's an iPad and not a "device". The "device" must be the charger thingy. What does "updated" mean? The clock and date are correct, is that what it means? The SIM card is just a week old, so that means device is updated, right? Or they updated their calendar app, so then all is good. Or maybe "device" refers to the internet box at home? If they correctly identify it as "probably not updated", the next instruction is equally opaque:
> Update it.
This needs a "how?" answer, in addition to "okay".
Most commonly, people coming to me for help make a blanket statement like "X is broken", where X could be their phone, computer, an application or website, the Internet as a whole. X is also generally inaccurate.
For instance, if the browser icon on my parents computer is moved for whatever reason, they will say that "the Internet is broken". If my mother can't figure out what button to press in a mobile application to get what she wants, "her phone is broken".
So the first 2 are rebooting and making sure it has power. The third is "up to date". I do quite a bit of tech support for my family and neither of those issues are really issues. The #1 issue for me is "this free app I installed wanted to install a browser addon and now I see ads everywhere". The #2 is "this free app I installed hijacks everything on my Mac to show ads".
I've spent countless hours educating them about malware, but how can they know that the app that promises to make their computer fast again is malware?
I had the opposite problem recently: how can they know that things are not malware?
My dad complained that his laptop would pop up "strange pictures" and ask if he "liked what he saw" and that they kept coming up even though he always said no.
I thought he'd acquired some sort of malware popping up fake dating site ads, but it turned out that he had upgraded to Windows 10 and was referring to the scenic photos it now shows at the login prompt/unlock screen...
The best thing I ever found to reduce the risk of malware is to move them to a Linux distro. The risk is not zero but from a user perspective I install the software they need from package repositories remotely, and that more or less settles it.
Of course this is not for everyone, but for folks who for the most only need a browser a Linux distro is a good choice.
I can't edit my comment anymore, but I should have been clear. My family is relatively tech-savy: My father is a photographer and a power user in a handful of Adobe apps. He manages backup disk arrays and can debug most common computer problems.
The real issue is that malware (adware?) is so damn convincing that he honestly believes it will make his 2 year old computer cleaner/better/faster/longer battery life. Once these apps are installed, they set themselves up in /Library/LaunchDaemons, /Library/LaunchAgents, browser addons, default search engines and several other places and they are absolutely a pain to get rid of over the phone.
So no, the solution for them is not, switch to Chromebooks. Ideally Apple would update their existing malware rules to include these "legitimate" but extremely shady apps.
I think this needs a "I don't know" option that leads to links to support pages. I've certainly dealt with friends and family who don't know how to check if their software is up to date and update it if it's not.
I also think the "Did this fix your problem?" prompts after saying "Yes" are redundant.
The "Did this fix your problem?" interrupts the flow and forces people to pay attention to the question instead of blindly clicking, and it is certainly there on purpose.
Depending on the device, I would say. Maybe if it were phrased, "Do you regularly see annoying popups that ask you to update your software?"
Shoot, I guess even that is a poor wording. I do know, however, that every time Apple pushes an iOS update, I get a text from my mom to see if she should accept the update. (She got an iphone last summer for the first time, and does not know how to install apps.)
Neat. Personally I would say "turn it off and on again" while this says the reverse. If it's targeted at a non-technical user, it needs to be foolproof. I have helped users before that would see this and literally turn their computer on and off, and wonder why the computer isn't working while off as instructed.
I can't believe that some people here think that it is better to move your relatives, who are scared/prone to malware but don't think to restart their computer first, to Linux. What a joke really. Linux is good and all, but come on people, among iOS, MacOS, Windows, Chrome and Linux, it's the least usable and least user friendly.
My dad (>60, not exactly tech saavy) has been using Lubuntu for 2 years now (actually I don't even remember when we installed it might be 4 years :P). For many parents who only surf the web and do some non power user office (he uses Libre Office now) and check their mail it's the perfect solution.
For his use case it's more user friendly than the Windows install because of the lack of constant update requests and antivirus stuff etc. etc.
It's also faster on the same machine and the computer doesn't clog down every n month. I still remember that he asked me about 6 month in why the computer doesn't get slower :P
I'm fairly confident that a switch from Windows to macOS would have been a lot harder for him btw. Same for a switch to Windows 10 without making it look like the old Windows actually (not as confident in that statement as I don't know enough about Win10).
It depends on the user, you can't make such a blanket statement and expect to be taken seriously.
My non-techie wife wandered onto my Elementary OS installation one day while I was at work, and despite having never used anything but Windows on the desktop (not even a Mac) she navigated just fine without me there to guide her. She was able to use it to go online, find something she wanted to print, print it, and then download, edit, and save a photo she wanted for her blog. Granted, those weren't pro-level tasks, but it's typical of what your average Grandma will do with her PC. Everything the average user does these days is all done in the browser; Google grokked that, and we now have Chrome OS.
I'd love to move my mother to Elementary (I've previously considered a Chromebook for her but my new stance on Google gives me pause) just so she will not be as susceptible to drive-by malware. I think if you give folks a fighting chance, you'll find that Windows doesn't have to be the only OS for Mr. and Mrs. Average User.
I think you are the one making a joke rather. The overall Linux experience (when you choose the right hardware and when everything works as expected) is not bad, really. It's faster than a machine running on any other system, USB peripherals do not need tons of external drivers, you can choose the Windows Manager you prefer out of a dozen of them available, it has proper package management, user management with different levels of privileges, it does not need to reboot for every update like windows does, I could go on forever.
At best you can criticize some Linux distros for being unfamiliar for Windows or OSX users, but that's about it. The rest depends a lot more on what you do with it. If whoever uses it lives mostly in a browser, it makes basically no difference.
About eight years ago I reinstalled my mother's laptop with Ubuntu (was WinXP). It was a mess before and I typically spent most of my time at my mom's actually with her laptop, trying to get it to decent speed and uninstalling miscellaneous crapware.
Since I installed Ubuntu on it I actually spend my time with her, not her computer. And she's happy about that, obviously, but also that her computer just works and she doesn't have to call me to get support all the time.
How is it the least user-friendly? In Ubuntu, for example, nothing in regular use seems particularly different. My grandma started using it as her first OS at 84, and she’s still doing fine.
I installed Ubuntu on my Dads laptop, and believe me, he had no troubles understanding and using it. Also never heard any complains from him about virus or system slowing down. Sooo good for me. :D
say what you want, but my family (with no technological literacy to speak of) has been using the following distros with great success:
Linux Mint: my mother. two years since the switch and she loves it. can't say I don't either.
Arch Linux: my significant other. a year since she adopted it, and she can find her way around just fine.
FreeBSD: my father. with i3 and a couple of scripts, he's able to boot up into a single-use environment and do what he wants. very simple and easy and I don't have to touch his laptop for a long time.
so.. user friendly? user friendliness depends on the interface that you slap onto the front of the operating system. turns out, there are different UIs for different purposes!
and that's why linux is a good choice. underneath, it's secure, maintainable, and free. on top, it can look like anything you want, thanks to X and the various DE/WMs.
my mother needs a full-on Windows-like GUI, start menu and all. my SO needs a slim interface so she uses fluxbox, which with a click of her mouse has everything she needs in a convenient menu (plus workspaces), and my father doesn't need anything but a web browser.
the kernel doesn't matter to them if you dress it up nicely.
My mom is not a tech person. I have had her on linux for the past five years without any issues (asides the ones I caused myself when messing with things). She never updates it, and mostly uses it for photo editing and web access. I run updates when I am in town in case grub gets broken.
Linux runs better as a remotely administered machine than macos or windows, and can run photoshop cs2, unlike ios and chrome.
Anecdote, sure, but a data point none the less: my mother who is very untechnical and has zero patience for software errors loves using her computer again after I got Linux onto it. According to her, everything just works, and it runs faster to boot! This is someone who's spent decades in DOS, then Windows, then OS X.
I'm responsible for my sister, my mother, 6 coworkers and 13 friends running Arch on their hardware, in various personalized configurations that took me maybe 30 minutes each. I can push out updates and flag new software for installation within seconds if they ask me for it and so far, I have not had one serious complaint. Some use Libreoffice for their private stuff, some appstream Office directly into a X window. Oh you don't like GNOME? Let me install Xfce. It's perfect if certain use cases apply. My sister has had hers for 6 years and counting and only complains when she cant execute nickelback.mp3.exe.
Well, "We designed the WOW! Computer for seniors and baby boomers with little or no experience using computers."
And "The WOW! Computer runs on a Linux operating system we’ve customized to support our touch screen capabilities. We chose Linux to avoid frequent problems with viruses and to provide a more secure, problem-free computer environment. Linux has been developed over the last 20 years by numerous companies and currently runs on millions of computers. In fact, about 60% of all internet servers run Linux."
My father, sisters would disagree. I only had Linux on the home computer for last 7-8 years. There are absolutely no support requirements, because it keeps on working the same way with no surprises. They can not setup windows, macOS, linux by themselves, but once setup for them Linux is the most effective solution and least headache for me.
All of my computer science friends who have moved their parents to Linux (myself included) report that they are happily doing with their computers what they used to (sans downloading and running random malware) with much reduced "tech support".
Hell, when I introduced my mom to ubuntu ten years ago, Linux wasn't even as desktop friendly as it is now.
Not to say that it's the best choice, but it's plenty usable and user friendly.
Tons of people have done it, and what the average non-technical user does is trivial on all of those operating systems. Anyway, Linux has half a dozen desktop UIs - referring to the user-friendliness of Linux as a unitary thing just makes it seem like you don't have a lot of experience in what you're criticizing.
edit: The best thing about Linux for non-technical people is that the GUIs don't change radically (for marketing purposes) every year or two. Once you get used to something, you can generally keep it, and changes and modernizations will accumulate slowly instead of forcing an adjustment all at once.
I moved three relatives who's computing skill vary between "What is a file, again? Help me, my Internet is gone?!!" and "How do I use this scanner to get that document into a PDF file and send it via Thunderbird?" over to Xubuntu (Ubuntu with XFCE, 14.04). They all dutifully do the upgrades and it's very rare that I have to intervene.
My grandpa runs on Linux for 3 years. He understands how to open an email and how to send one, how to Google (mainly about cars) and how to send money. That's all he wants to know anyway.
He was scared about downloading viruses and all that, to which I told him: you don't need to worry about it.
I really don't see the difference, all of them provide icons to click to open apps that look roughly the same. It's just what your family member is used to. Anyone who grew up in KDE will find the Windows/MacOS UI a pain. But the fact is, Linux runs on as cheap hardware as Windows while being less or as prone to viruses/trojans as MacOS, so maybe it's worth a bit of a learning curve. Especially when you just use a browser, Ubuntu provides you with a 5 years unchanging UI... Compare that to Windows and what people are apparently willing to accept.
Just like others I installed Ubuntu on my mom laptop like 7 years ago. Transition was simple mainly because she was scared of computers all her life and different OS doesn't change much. All she need is some music CD playback, little of photo management and browser.
After many years the only problem ever occur was when she accepted upgrade proposal to Ubuntu 16.04 and then shortly after closed laptop so it's end up in half installed state. So it's would be smart not just setup unattended upgrades, but also disable all release upgrade suggestions.
Though I suppose for her ChromeOS could be enough too, but it's was too limited in offline mode and I not sure if she going to need new laptop anytime soon.
I'm fairly sure if I moved my parents to linux mint they wouldnt even notice. 'Usable' and 'user friendly' don't apply when all you use is chrome, and chrome is the same on every OS.
I installed linux on my grandmothers PC exactly because it is not usable. The webbrowser and email work fine (She already used thunderbird and firefox) but what destroyed the computer monthly is other family members that "helped" by installing "cleanup tools" and some ridiculous games that required hardware with shady drivers to unlock game content...
What most of home users need now is a browser and it works well on Linux too. I've installed Linux Mint for some of my family members and they are are doing fine. As a bonus, I don't have to clean their systems from tons of malware, crapware, countless browser bars and viruses anymore. A slightly bigger problem if a said person needs office programs, because going from MS Office to Libre/Open Office is still not straightforward for most users.
My mom had been using Linux for basic spreadsheet work and browsing. Yes, it needs setup and configuration; but that's true of any OS.
Also, Windows has annoying forced restarts and takes a long time to update. And it doesn't have a package manager. And drivers need to be annoying--needless waiting even for simple devices like a USB keyboard.
> Linux is good and all, but come on people, among iOS, MacOS, Windows, Chrome and Linux, it's the least usable and least user friendly.
ChromeOS is Linux. The principal difference between ChromeOS and Ubuntu is that if you want to run something other than Chrome then on Ubuntu you may and on ChromeOS you don't.
And the likes of Ubuntu have been easier to use than Windows for five years or more. The utility of Windows is if you need Windows-exclusive software or hardware, not that it's easier to use. And if that's your problem then you can't have ChromeOS or MacOS/iOS either.
You also can't lawfully install MacOS or iOS on the computers your family already has.
An automatic lmgtfy link? How meta :) I find this tool to be subtely-less-insulting to the end-user than lmgtfy, especially if they don't happen to read the blog post where it says[0]: "Just send the link to anyone who takes up a bit too much of your valuable time."
One thing I'd particularly like when dealing with my parents' issues is an _easy_ way to set up remote screenshare and access. It's one thing when the problem is that their computer isn't booting (in which this site would definitely help ;)), but another if the problem is that they can't find a file they downloaded or something like that.
I'd pay for a tool like this that was easy to set up and use that didn't have to involve my parents installing TeamViewer, coordinating a channel, and so on.
Edit: Thanks for the advice all, will install one of these suggestions when I head home for the holidays.
If you both have macs, it's built in, but sort of hidden.
Just open up messages on both computer -> go to your parents' contact -> click details -> click the button next to their name that looks like two screens (it's next to the video chat button). It'll ring on their computer, all they have to do is accept.
Edit: Apparently you can just spotlight search for the "screen sharing" application and just type in their apple id.
I had my mom install Chrome Remote Desktop. Pretty easy to set up with some guidance over the phone, but probably easier if they already have a google account.
I had my mom install the join.me app on her laptop and tablet. When she has problems she just types "join.me" in the browser (or opens the app) and reads me the join code over the phone.
In a couple minutes I find that disabled setting, or the app she installed but can't find, or clean up the crapware from the kitten screensaver she installed, and she's on her way.
I installed TeamViewer for them and set it up to allow remote access from my account, with a safe password. I can access their computer without their involvement. It doesn't get any easier than that.
Tech support for my family is usually "WiFi is not working", "WiFi is working only on his device and not mine", "WiFi is turning on and of randomly and constantly". I hate WiFi :) . It is almost impossible to debug and usually ends in rebooting all involved devices, sometimes it helps.
Don't know what to think about it, looks like a bit unfair to me to copy cat someone who decided to share so much of his experience.
I would love to know what Chris Chen (instapainting founder) and Courtland Allen (indie hacker founder) think about it. Personally I really enjoy reading indie hacker stories, I find it very inspiring. It would be a shame people stop sharing their success because some guys copy cat them...
Also looks like a similar attempt to SEO and get customers by posting unrelated techie stuff under the same domain -- cf. instapainting discussion in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12798767.
I can't even load it, it freezes my laptop and forces me to reboot or wait for 2 minutes before Chrome prompts me to kill the tab. (Intel Celeron N3160 + 4GB RAM)
Anybody else find this too cute and patronizing? Its the guy saying "You're an idiot and I'm too smart and busy to be bothered by family. Your problems don't matter."
This reminds me of https://xkcd.com/627/. I think both both these 'tools' could be expanded a bit to be more useful (though maybe less humorous). Though one issue with less tech-knowledgable people is that they may have trouble following some instructions from Google and the like.
The easiest way to fix my family and friends' tech support time was buying them a Mac. Even better, moving the trickier ones to Chromebooks. Nobody calls anymore.
would be cool (albeit maybe difficult), to summarize the best result instead of taking them to Google directly. i suspect anyone using this page who gets to the Google results page will have no idea where to stat when they get there.
a less interesting solution would maybe be to provide a video that explains how to Google solutions for technical issues & error messages.
koliber|9 years ago
The issue was that the power plug was in the socket, but too loose to connect. Somehow, the support person figured this was the case (prior experience?) and knew that if he asked "is it plugged in?" he would get a "yes". Taking the power plug out and putting it back in ensured that it would be in properly. But just asking the person to do that can be faced with push-back or even a lie that they did it (since the power plug obviously was already connected).
I always chuckled at the story but did not think it was true. I worked tech support while attending university. One time, I had an on-site where the monitor just stopped working. We went through the standard question on the phone, including asking if it is plugged in, and of course it was. Could not get it fixed over the phone. Once on-site, it turned out it was a loose power cable.
I could have avoided an on-site had I only asked them to blow the dust out of the power cable. Maybe this should be added to the questionnaire.
okreallywtf|9 years ago
At one point I had to service some of the rural areas when the installer for that area quit and had one service request that I was sure would be fixed by a simple power cycle but wasn't. "Are you sure you unplugged the right thing?" I asked, and "If I come all the way out there and power cycle it and it works I'll have to charge you, do you understand?" I warned, he understood but wasn't worried because he knew that wasn't it.
After a nearly 2 hour drive out into the utter boondocks, I go inside and check the POE injector, unplug it and plug it back in. 20 seconds later I check his internet through his own router: golden (or as golden as you can be over a waverider 900Mhz link). He had just been unplugging his own router and plugging it back in over and over. In retrospect I could have made him physically trace the power cord but there was still a good 10% chance the unit actually had a problem.
People in the rural areas were really nice about everything though, being on 56k until 2010 makes you appreciate whatever broadband you can get. He just laughed and got his checkbook, in the city people complained when you told them the bill an hour after telling them what the charge would be over the phone.
arethuza|9 years ago
There was an IBM engineer on site who insisted it was a software problem - I was on the phone to him and he was getting rather annoyed with me and I asked the inevitable "Is it actually plugged into the power?" which got him very angry that I would have the cheek to suggest that he hadn't checked that.
Then the phone went silent for a bit and he said "Try now".
Power supply was plugged into the power but the power cable from the supply wasn't plugged into the printer.
Edit: I'm sure I've been the guilty party in similar scenarios myself a few times, though hopefully not more than once in any particular context.
StavrosK|9 years ago
Jaruzel|9 years ago
drspacemonkey|9 years ago
babuskov|9 years ago
evacchi|9 years ago
ashmud|9 years ago
mordechai9000|9 years ago
If you ask directly, people will often just instantly tell you the cable is good, without even touching it.
Customers would sometimes question this, but I don't recall anyone refusing after I explained the reasoning.
empath75|9 years ago
Deestan|9 years ago
> Is your device up to date?
First, they aren't familiar with what is considered a "device". Does it mean the calendar app on the phone (where they see observed problems)? Surely it can't mean their iPad, because that's an iPad and not a "device". The "device" must be the charger thingy. What does "updated" mean? The clock and date are correct, is that what it means? The SIM card is just a week old, so that means device is updated, right? Or they updated their calendar app, so then all is good. Or maybe "device" refers to the internet box at home? If they correctly identify it as "probably not updated", the next instruction is equally opaque:
> Update it.
This needs a "how?" answer, in addition to "okay".
sspiff|9 years ago
For instance, if the browser icon on my parents computer is moved for whatever reason, they will say that "the Internet is broken". If my mother can't figure out what button to press in a mobile application to get what she wants, "her phone is broken".
nathancahill|9 years ago
I've spent countless hours educating them about malware, but how can they know that the app that promises to make their computer fast again is malware?
coroxout|9 years ago
My dad complained that his laptop would pop up "strange pictures" and ask if he "liked what he saw" and that they kept coming up even though he always said no.
I thought he'd acquired some sort of malware popping up fake dating site ads, but it turned out that he had upgraded to Windows 10 and was referring to the scenic photos it now shows at the login prompt/unlock screen...
ekianjo|9 years ago
Of course this is not for everyone, but for folks who for the most only need a browser a Linux distro is a good choice.
nathancahill|9 years ago
The real issue is that malware (adware?) is so damn convincing that he honestly believes it will make his 2 year old computer cleaner/better/faster/longer battery life. Once these apps are installed, they set themselves up in /Library/LaunchDaemons, /Library/LaunchAgents, browser addons, default search engines and several other places and they are absolutely a pain to get rid of over the phone.
So no, the solution for them is not, switch to Chromebooks. Ideally Apple would update their existing malware rules to include these "legitimate" but extremely shady apps.
spullara|9 years ago
AWildDHHAppears|9 years ago
[deleted]
howderek|9 years ago
I also think the "Did this fix your problem?" prompts after saying "Yes" are redundant.
diziet|9 years ago
asdfasdfa11112|9 years ago
Shoot, I guess even that is a poor wording. I do know, however, that every time Apple pushes an iOS update, I get a text from my mom to see if she should accept the update. (She got an iphone last summer for the first time, and does not know how to install apps.)
anotheryou|9 years ago
I used the tool like my mother would and had these Problems:
1. the device is on! Of course I know it's plugged in!
2. "is the device up to date". What does that mean? The clock seems to be going correctly! It's not the newest model, but fairly recent...
3. I now have the google results for "the titles don't work anymore"
-
I think far more helpful would be a simple form helping writing a report:
- What is the name of the program where the problem occurs (you can find that here [screenshot showing a title bar])
- Describe step by step what you did when the error occurred. Once done, please do these exact steps again to see if the problem still occurs.
- What did you expect to happen?
- What did actually happen?
- Did it work before?
- If it did, when did it work the last time? Did you change anything since than?
- Any further guesses on what might be relevant to the problem or what might cause it?
- When we solve the problem, what do I get? (multiple choice: nothing - still owed me one, a beer, a hug, other [ ])
givinguflac|9 years ago
rosstex|9 years ago
jethro_tell|9 years ago
chirau|9 years ago
kriro|9 years ago
For his use case it's more user friendly than the Windows install because of the lack of constant update requests and antivirus stuff etc. etc. It's also faster on the same machine and the computer doesn't clog down every n month. I still remember that he asked me about 6 month in why the computer doesn't get slower :P
I'm fairly confident that a switch from Windows to macOS would have been a lot harder for him btw. Same for a switch to Windows 10 without making it look like the old Windows actually (not as confident in that statement as I don't know enough about Win10).
morganvachon|9 years ago
My non-techie wife wandered onto my Elementary OS installation one day while I was at work, and despite having never used anything but Windows on the desktop (not even a Mac) she navigated just fine without me there to guide her. She was able to use it to go online, find something she wanted to print, print it, and then download, edit, and save a photo she wanted for her blog. Granted, those weren't pro-level tasks, but it's typical of what your average Grandma will do with her PC. Everything the average user does these days is all done in the browser; Google grokked that, and we now have Chrome OS.
I'd love to move my mother to Elementary (I've previously considered a Chromebook for her but my new stance on Google gives me pause) just so she will not be as susceptible to drive-by malware. I think if you give folks a fighting chance, you'll find that Windows doesn't have to be the only OS for Mr. and Mrs. Average User.
ekianjo|9 years ago
I think you are the one making a joke rather. The overall Linux experience (when you choose the right hardware and when everything works as expected) is not bad, really. It's faster than a machine running on any other system, USB peripherals do not need tons of external drivers, you can choose the Windows Manager you prefer out of a dozen of them available, it has proper package management, user management with different levels of privileges, it does not need to reboot for every update like windows does, I could go on forever.
At best you can criticize some Linux distros for being unfamiliar for Windows or OSX users, but that's about it. The rest depends a lot more on what you do with it. If whoever uses it lives mostly in a browser, it makes basically no difference.
sandebert|9 years ago
Since I installed Ubuntu on it I actually spend my time with her, not her computer. And she's happy about that, obviously, but also that her computer just works and she doesn't have to call me to get support all the time.
minitech|9 years ago
dilliwal|9 years ago
imode|9 years ago
Linux Mint: my mother. two years since the switch and she loves it. can't say I don't either.
Arch Linux: my significant other. a year since she adopted it, and she can find her way around just fine.
FreeBSD: my father. with i3 and a couple of scripts, he's able to boot up into a single-use environment and do what he wants. very simple and easy and I don't have to touch his laptop for a long time.
so.. user friendly? user friendliness depends on the interface that you slap onto the front of the operating system. turns out, there are different UIs for different purposes!
and that's why linux is a good choice. underneath, it's secure, maintainable, and free. on top, it can look like anything you want, thanks to X and the various DE/WMs.
my mother needs a full-on Windows-like GUI, start menu and all. my SO needs a slim interface so she uses fluxbox, which with a click of her mouse has everything she needs in a convenient menu (plus workspaces), and my father doesn't need anything but a web browser.
the kernel doesn't matter to them if you dress it up nicely.
mtreis86|9 years ago
Linux runs better as a remotely administered machine than macos or windows, and can run photoshop cs2, unlike ios and chrome.
kqr|9 years ago
redirectleft|9 years ago
mirimir|9 years ago
And "The WOW! Computer runs on a Linux operating system we’ve customized to support our touch screen capabilities. We chose Linux to avoid frequent problems with viruses and to provide a more secure, problem-free computer environment. Linux has been developed over the last 20 years by numerous companies and currently runs on millions of computers. In fact, about 60% of all internet servers run Linux."
So ...
https://www.mywowcomputer.com/faqs.aspx
eklavya|9 years ago
dkersten|9 years ago
Hell, when I introduced my mom to ubuntu ten years ago, Linux wasn't even as desktop friendly as it is now.
Not to say that it's the best choice, but it's plenty usable and user friendly.
pessimizer|9 years ago
edit: The best thing about Linux for non-technical people is that the GUIs don't change radically (for marketing purposes) every year or two. Once you get used to something, you can generally keep it, and changes and modernizations will accumulate slowly instead of forcing an adjustment all at once.
Jaruzel|9 years ago
iOS or Android, doesn't matter. All most people do is surf Facebook, check webmail/im, and do online shopping.
Moving these people over to a tablet reduces Family IT Support to practically zero.
cleeus|9 years ago
mettamage|9 years ago
He was scared about downloading viruses and all that, to which I told him: you don't need to worry about it.
He's also on a mac sometimes, I wouldn't let
teekert|9 years ago
SXX|9 years ago
After many years the only problem ever occur was when she accepted upgrade proposal to Ubuntu 16.04 and then shortly after closed laptop so it's end up in half installed state. So it's would be smart not just setup unattended upgrades, but also disable all release upgrade suggestions.
Though I suppose for her ChromeOS could be enough too, but it's was too limited in offline mode and I not sure if she going to need new laptop anytime soon.
kraftman|9 years ago
MartijnBraam|9 years ago
dsfyu404ed|9 years ago
kbart|9 years ago
witty_username|9 years ago
Also, Windows has annoying forced restarts and takes a long time to update. And it doesn't have a package manager. And drivers need to be annoying--needless waiting even for simple devices like a USB keyboard.
anotheryou|9 years ago
Problems come if they need more or are used to another OS.
spullara|9 years ago
AnthonyMouse|9 years ago
ChromeOS is Linux. The principal difference between ChromeOS and Ubuntu is that if you want to run something other than Chrome then on Ubuntu you may and on ChromeOS you don't.
And the likes of Ubuntu have been easier to use than Windows for five years or more. The utility of Windows is if you need Windows-exclusive software or hardware, not that it's easier to use. And if that's your problem then you can't have ChromeOS or MacOS/iOS either.
You also can't lawfully install MacOS or iOS on the computers your family already has.
dimino|9 years ago
Linux is best for servers.
grecy|9 years ago
Does that mean do I have the latest iPhone, or do I have the latest device drivers (I think I have heard that from Windows users).
Not too sure there.
djsumdog|9 years ago
wishinghand|9 years ago
src3|9 years ago
24gttghh|9 years ago
[0]https://www.grammable.me/blogs/news/grammable-it-support-too...
ars|9 years ago
I'm technical, and I didn't notice the new window (tab actually) till much later - I just thought the site was broken and ignored what I typed.
Someone non-technical is for sure not going to notice it.
rudedogg|9 years ago
It's annoying being asked to help with support, but if it's someone I care about I would never send them this.
Maybe I'm missing the joke?
panorama|9 years ago
I'd pay for a tool like this that was easy to set up and use that didn't have to involve my parents installing TeamViewer, coordinating a channel, and so on.
Edit: Thanks for the advice all, will install one of these suggestions when I head home for the holidays.
an_account|9 years ago
Just open up messages on both computer -> go to your parents' contact -> click details -> click the button next to their name that looks like two screens (it's next to the video chat button). It'll ring on their computer, all they have to do is accept.
Edit: Apparently you can just spotlight search for the "screen sharing" application and just type in their apple id.
quicklyfrozen|9 years ago
perishabledave|9 years ago
https://www.copilot.com/
I had hopes that Screen Hero would fill that role before Slack bought them out. Still a great tool, wish it wasn't tied to Slack though.
joeax|9 years ago
In a couple minutes I find that disabled setting, or the app she installed but can't find, or clean up the crapware from the kitten screensaver she installed, and she's on her way.
Confusion|9 years ago
nrki|9 years ago
Power chord is a music thing.
Power cord is a cord that supplies power.
Yizahi|9 years ago
PostOnce|9 years ago
Looks like instapainting.com arbitrage, I wonder how long that will be viable.
edelans|9 years ago
Domain Name: GRAMMABLE.ME
Registry Domain ID: D425500000001103903-AGRS
Registrar WHOIS Server:
Registrar URL: www.namecheap.com
Updated Date: 2016-11-25T10:04:27Z
Creation Date: 2016-11-25T10:04:19Z
grammable.me was registered a few weeks after the [indiehacker article on instapainting](https://www.indiehackers.com/businesses/instapainting) buzzed on HN about a month ago : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12798767 .
Don't know what to think about it, looks like a bit unfair to me to copy cat someone who decided to share so much of his experience.
I would love to know what Chris Chen (instapainting founder) and Courtland Allen (indie hacker founder) think about it. Personally I really enjoy reading indie hacker stories, I find it very inspiring. It would be a shame people stop sharing their success because some guys copy cat them...
Leszek|9 years ago
milankragujevic|9 years ago
JoeAltmaier|9 years ago
dark_ph0enix|9 years ago
amelius|9 years ago
Then it could be fun AND useful :)
See [1] for a similar idea, but applied to guessing animals.
See [2] for a more serious approach.
[1] http://www.animalgame.com/
[2] http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/09521976929...
QuercusMax|9 years ago
saycheese|9 years ago
arikrak|9 years ago
morgl|9 years ago
It seems that the tool is inspired by the 'IT crowd'. IRL, unfortunately people may skip the first steps thinking that they are taken as idiots.
vacri|9 years ago
nathancahill|9 years ago
sturmeh|9 years ago
cgvgffyv|9 years ago
An iPad.
/thread
known|9 years ago
owenwil|9 years ago
wyldfire|9 years ago
julienmarie|9 years ago
oliv__|9 years ago
sabujp|9 years ago
catshirt|9 years ago
would be cool (albeit maybe difficult), to summarize the best result instead of taking them to Google directly. i suspect anyone using this page who gets to the Google results page will have no idea where to stat when they get there.
a less interesting solution would maybe be to provide a video that explains how to Google solutions for technical issues & error messages.
fiesycal|9 years ago
z3t4|9 years ago
Tempest1981|9 years ago
marvin|9 years ago
sharemywin|9 years ago
rcdmd|9 years ago
madshiva|9 years ago
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
appelza|9 years ago
[deleted]
sctb|9 years ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
sornaensis|9 years ago
Um. Joke on the first question? Or typo?
jkfhdslk|9 years ago
lame.