I hate the fact that so many of these resume generators only support downloading as PDF.
Maybe (?) that works for the super-elite echelon who don't really have to "job hunt", and who maintain a resume only as a formality. But for the other 95%+ of plebs who have to actively apply or work with recruiters... MS Word is the only game in town, like it or not.
I loved the idea behind JSON Resume (https://jsonresume.org) a year ago (i.e. separate the content from the styling, store the content in source control and track it or branch as needed, and apply the content to whichever template you like). But I didn't like the limited export capability... so I wrote Resume Fodder (https://resumefodder.com) as an open source alternative. I'd love to create more template options when I have time... pull requests welcomed!
The people behind these resume generators know that MS Word is what most people need, but choose not to support it because that would undercut their business model. The business model dream is for you to host your content on their server, so they can mine it and sell access and hopefully cut off a slice of LinkedIn's pie.
So be it, but I just don't think there is a viable business model there. LinkedIn is already LinkedIn... and I suspect that smaller rivals will run into the same wall as Diaspora, Ello, and all the other would-be Facebook replacements. I think that people who check out these resume generators REALLY are looking for... a resume generator! And if it doesn't let you save your resume in the format that most people demand, then it isn't particularly useful in the real world.
> MS Word is the only game in town, like it or not.
That's stretching it. Most companies are totally fine with PDF these days, not in the least because it is WYSIWYG for screen and print and just works. Looks a lot more professional too; especially if you are looking for a job in IT.
When recruiters or temp agencies ask for Word documents, they want this because then they can strip out all your personal data and pass the documents on to the companies (their customers) looking for employees. With PDF they need to do more work.
That's interesting. 100% of the resumes I have sent have been PDF. I haven't even read a request for a Word document anywhere. Which country/domain are you talking about (for me it's tech jobs and academics in Germany). I have stopped applying to anyone who asks for a real world document so maybe that's a niche I'm missing?
I don't give recruiters a word-formatted CV. Too many times I've had my CV edited from what I gave them before forwarding it on. It got to the point where I had to start asking companies I interviewed at for a copy of what the recruitment agencies had sent to them.
Steve I think the critique is a little pessimistic.
Exporting to Word would be simple change if merited, so that is really more of a feature/strategy suggestion rather than evidence the business is fundamentally not viable.
Regarding competing with LinkedIn, it hard to judge without knowing the full vision. OP said this was step 1 towards a platform. Besides LinkedIn does lots of things suboptimally, and other people have built businesses that work along side their ecosystem.
Finally other comments are correct when they say recruiters only want Word to strip your info. Couple fyis on this point:
1) Stripping contact info is not unethical. If a recruiter worked hard to find you and/or build a relationship they should not have to worry about companies using their work to cut them out of a deal.
2) Adding in skills without your knowledge is way unethical. Ask up front if they do this. Some also scrape your resume (and tons more) and submit without you knowing, then if a company is interested they call you and say XYZ company is interested in you. Most people don't complain about this part because its a free job offer, however personally I don't like and always ask what their source was.
3) Having only PDF and not Word is very unlikely to hurt you. If recruiters are interested they will just OCR into Word in about 30 seconds.
Having worked on a job application and onboarding web application, I can tell you that our customers prefer PDF or image renderings of the documents over word. Even imperfect word -> pdf conversions are tolerated to some extent if it means not having to open word.
And our customers are mostly entrenched industrial suppliers and government-owned private entities with byzantine processes, not some tech startups.
In my experience they love to use Office internally, but not for external documents.
I use that situation as a personal litmus test. If I get no response back or "I can't open this I need Word!!!!1!" I already know I don't want to work there. Why do tech at a techphobic company?
Strange. When I talk to recruiters, usually I just link my LinkedIn, and when they ask for a separate CV file, they're usually quite happy with PDF. I never heard them asking for Word format.
I can understand wanting to download an editable version of the document, but in my experience no company has ever specifically asked me for a word document, I've always sent PDFs. Microsoft was the only company that communicated via word docs (which looked like absolute garbage, by the way, since they expect you to have purchased the latest and greatest office suite complete with all of its useless features), and I still sent them a PDF resume and it turned out just fine.
I feel once editing is done, PDFs are much more professional because they open without any virus warnings, update notifications, or "this document is in read-only mode" banners.
That said, yes, when editing is NOT done a PDF is almost impossible to deal with.
I'm really surprised at this comment - I can't recall the last time I had my CV in Word format. At least over 5 or so years ago. And even then, I think it was voluntarily on my part: I don't think anyone's ever requested Word format from me.
Have you carried out any research/surveys for Resume Fodder to find out what percentage of people are encountering this?
Edit: I'm in Ireland, so maybe this is a US thing, but I've always thought we were a bit behind here in terms of trends of software usage.
I started building a Django front end for managing a JSON resume, with versioning and cut and paste. It was more for me, so I could stop fiddling with so many old copies of my CV. So I'll take a look at your project.
As for output formats, I was planning to integrate HackMyResume (http://please.hackmyresume.com/). Then using the library of existing templates would have been possible. The graphic design quality of some of those templates isn't what I'd want though... I had ideas about enabling HTML templates to support interactivity in some fashion.
But HackMyResume is Node based... and Node is annoying as I found out. I see you are using Go, so no idea what it might take to integrate Node or reuse the logic. Why can't you use the JSONresume templates available?
Then I decided to stop being a developer :) Life is ... different now. I'd recommend it if one is so inclined.
Why not simple add a Word output to the existing project? You also created a new schema, which is almost the same, but not quite.
I don't understand the purpose of re-inventing the wheel here. The other project has dozens of contributors, I'm going to assume it stays up to date more.
---
Edit: I see your product does actually integrate with theirs. Still seems like it could have all been one product, though. I don't understand what you mean by "an open source alternative."
I tried (wasted my time?) putting my rich resume in JSON Resume, and it didn't work for me. The development of the project is way too slow for its simplicity.
For example, you can't add projects to a job; you can't assign skills to a project or a job. For people who did consulting, this is a must, but not available. There are many other issues, but those are, for me at least, the road blocks.
> Maybe (?) that works for the super-elite echelon who don't really have to "job hunt", and who maintain a resume only as a formality. But for the other 95%+ of plebs who have to actively apply or work with recruiters... MS Word is the only game in town, like it or not.
On my last job hunt, nearly every employer and job board accepted resumes in PDF.
For the most part, the only people who wanted Word were recruiters, and I'm done doing business with them. Every single job I've ever gotten has been the result of me directly applying, and all recruiters have ever done is waste my time and spam me.
I use a mix of a semi up-to-date LaTeX CV and Github/Linkedin profile. Though I haven't switched full-time jobs in about 10 years, it's served reasonably well for securing some side work (mostly academic, but some other consulting and contracting as well).
I agree that this is still kind of an open problem, but unlikely to be a business opportunity in the making.
I wrote https://github.com/awalGarg/cv-maker/ which generates the resume in markdown. From there, you can convert it with pandoc to basically whatever you want. It is not much polished yet, though.
Poppycock... I've not converted my resume to word format in twenty years, the last time someone asked for it. Not to mention the resume should be in a read-only format, "secure" from recruiter modification.
PDF is far and away the #1 format for resumes. #2 isn't MS Word—it's plain text. The rise of HR and applicant systems mean employers are looking for machine-readable experience and education.
Personally I've gone all-in on the Stack Overflow CV / Developer Story (mine, for example [1]). I'm exploring building the missing tooling to update everything else (LinkedIn, AngelList) from SO as the single source of truth.
Developer Story does have a PDF export but it's very limited to including everything which is a bit heavy, and no UI customization right now.
I'd be more likely to explore a tool like CakeResume if they imported from an SO CV i.e., if the cost of adoption was reduced. I think this reflects the typical developer opinion on most resume generators.
I'm not saying SO has to be the standard, it could be a JSON schema with even more features, but we really need some standard.
I'm a huge fan of the "single source of truth" approach. The actual content (achievements, skills, education, past projects) should be "data" and we should be able to generate the snazzy timelines, pretty resumes (the views) with single clicks.
That's the approach i'm taking with JobRudder [1]. You enter your "data" and we generate resumes, achievement reports, timelines etc. We're looking into updating LinkedIn, posting to twitter (for those who like that) and other integrations.
When I click "Try Now", I get a modal to signup. Is there something specific about this tool that requires signing-up first? Why can't we access it as is? (I understand some reasons, but I feel they don't apply when you are doing a "Show HN" of the beta version).
Looks nice from the landing page, but maybe a bit image-heavy for a resume isn't it?
On the topic of resume building though, while I haven't had the need for making one in a long time I have this idea I just want to throw out there.
Just make like an HTML page with every possible detail about your history. Then, in e.g. Chrome, you can easily hide the different sections/words that isn't related to the specific job you're applying for. Then print as PDF. Seems like it would be easy to maintain and "generate" the resumes per application.
Trantor after thinking more about your site, I'm sure it's a mistake to require registration before allowing them to feel how nice it is.
First, you could simply require the registration before allowing them to export so you still capture the data.
Secondly, I'm afraid the usability and slickness are so nice that you will lose more than gain by not letting people get a quick chance to see how good it feels.
Glad I got that off my chest. My opinion and $1.85 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks, so fwiw.
I've seen a bunch of recent resumes - all of which include photos (nothing dramatic, just a professional headshot).
I personally don't have it on my resume because I feel that it's un-necessary and a bit unprofessional. But I can see it's appeal (there have been too many instances where there's one person who does the phone interview and another the in person interview)
Seems to vary greatly by region. I'd feel embarrassed for an applicant that put a photo on a resume in the US, but apparently the opposite is true elsewhere.
Pretty interesting concept! I'd like to be able to add variables that are used throughout snippets, so changing designs doesn't require me to re-enter a lot of information.
I expected to see the Experience sections listed in the dropdown, but instead I just see "paragraph" and "list". I almost just clicked away from the site at that point.
You should probably do a better job of calling out the things people expect to put on a resume, instead of hiding them under generic non-resume terms.
What I don't like on resume generators is the fact that what they say about being "unique" and "impress" is the exact opposite from what will happen if suddenly everyone will start using them. All CVs will be the same eventually....
Awesome little tool. I like the idea of drag&drop snippets, but every list snippet has a fixed number of items. Why not one snippet with the ability to add/remove list items? Moreover you can't easily replace snippets without keeping the current information. Lots of copy/pasting involved.
Looks nice but gonna be a bit off topic and ranty, I really don't want to bother about resumes and their formats anymore.
Is it really not acceptable to give a LinkedIn URL when asked for a resume, or as a recruiter if you see my LinkedIn profile, why do you still ask a resume? I think it looks well enough to replace any resume in any format, and its generally available. (of course if you don't choose to limit it to only 1st level connections)
Farsighted Note: I am aware of PDF export feature, but its very ugly..
This looks good (i like the drag and drop mechanic).
I've spent a lot of time exploring and building career tools [1], and my observation so far has been that "formatting and style" isn't the main problem with resumes. Seem to me that most people struggle with "what" to put in a resume and "how" (phrasing, concreteness etc) to put it.
Resume generators are getting a little trope-ish. Personally, I just use jsonresume's schema more or less to keep all my employment information. I don't like their generators, too heavy and esoteric, personally. I just use the JSON file.
My website is generated with a static website builder, hugo, and uses wkhtml to generate an optional pdf. It just pulls a subset of what I want to display from the exhaustive, version controlled json file. My entire website pulls contact information, name, location, social media profiles etc information from that one json file. It separates content and presentation and I keep it all in one file. If I wanted two versions of the information, I just change the html document and what I pull.
Given the name I really thought this was going to be a service that puts your resume onto a cake and sends that cake to a company you want an interview at.
[+] [-] StevePerkins|9 years ago|reply
Maybe (?) that works for the super-elite echelon who don't really have to "job hunt", and who maintain a resume only as a formality. But for the other 95%+ of plebs who have to actively apply or work with recruiters... MS Word is the only game in town, like it or not.
I loved the idea behind JSON Resume (https://jsonresume.org) a year ago (i.e. separate the content from the styling, store the content in source control and track it or branch as needed, and apply the content to whichever template you like). But I didn't like the limited export capability... so I wrote Resume Fodder (https://resumefodder.com) as an open source alternative. I'd love to create more template options when I have time... pull requests welcomed!
The people behind these resume generators know that MS Word is what most people need, but choose not to support it because that would undercut their business model. The business model dream is for you to host your content on their server, so they can mine it and sell access and hopefully cut off a slice of LinkedIn's pie.
So be it, but I just don't think there is a viable business model there. LinkedIn is already LinkedIn... and I suspect that smaller rivals will run into the same wall as Diaspora, Ello, and all the other would-be Facebook replacements. I think that people who check out these resume generators REALLY are looking for... a resume generator! And if it doesn't let you save your resume in the format that most people demand, then it isn't particularly useful in the real world.
[+] [-] Freak_NL|9 years ago|reply
That's stretching it. Most companies are totally fine with PDF these days, not in the least because it is WYSIWYG for screen and print and just works. Looks a lot more professional too; especially if you are looking for a job in IT.
When recruiters or temp agencies ask for Word documents, they want this because then they can strip out all your personal data and pass the documents on to the companies (their customers) looking for employees. With PDF they need to do more work.
[+] [-] kriro|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ciaranm|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] WhitneyLand|9 years ago|reply
Exporting to Word would be simple change if merited, so that is really more of a feature/strategy suggestion rather than evidence the business is fundamentally not viable.
Regarding competing with LinkedIn, it hard to judge without knowing the full vision. OP said this was step 1 towards a platform. Besides LinkedIn does lots of things suboptimally, and other people have built businesses that work along side their ecosystem.
Finally other comments are correct when they say recruiters only want Word to strip your info. Couple fyis on this point:
1) Stripping contact info is not unethical. If a recruiter worked hard to find you and/or build a relationship they should not have to worry about companies using their work to cut them out of a deal.
2) Adding in skills without your knowledge is way unethical. Ask up front if they do this. Some also scrape your resume (and tons more) and submit without you knowing, then if a company is interested they call you and say XYZ company is interested in you. Most people don't complain about this part because its a free job offer, however personally I don't like and always ask what their source was.
3) Having only PDF and not Word is very unlikely to hurt you. If recruiters are interested they will just OCR into Word in about 30 seconds.
[+] [-] newacc674|9 years ago|reply
And our customers are mostly entrenched industrial suppliers and government-owned private entities with byzantine processes, not some tech startups.
In my experience they love to use Office internally, but not for external documents.
[+] [-] cmdrfred|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] golergka|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xabotage|9 years ago|reply
I feel once editing is done, PDFs are much more professional because they open without any virus warnings, update notifications, or "this document is in read-only mode" banners.
That said, yes, when editing is NOT done a PDF is almost impossible to deal with.
[+] [-] lucideer|9 years ago|reply
Have you carried out any research/surveys for Resume Fodder to find out what percentage of people are encountering this?
Edit: I'm in Ireland, so maybe this is a US thing, but I've always thought we were a bit behind here in terms of trends of software usage.
[+] [-] dfraser992|9 years ago|reply
As for output formats, I was planning to integrate HackMyResume (http://please.hackmyresume.com/). Then using the library of existing templates would have been possible. The graphic design quality of some of those templates isn't what I'd want though... I had ideas about enabling HTML templates to support interactivity in some fashion.
But HackMyResume is Node based... and Node is annoying as I found out. I see you are using Go, so no idea what it might take to integrate Node or reuse the logic. Why can't you use the JSONresume templates available?
Then I decided to stop being a developer :) Life is ... different now. I'd recommend it if one is so inclined.
[+] [-] kozak|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SamBam|9 years ago|reply
But JSON Resume is entirely open source already: https://github.com/jsonresume
Why not simple add a Word output to the existing project? You also created a new schema, which is almost the same, but not quite.
I don't understand the purpose of re-inventing the wheel here. The other project has dozens of contributors, I'm going to assume it stays up to date more.
--- Edit: I see your product does actually integrate with theirs. Still seems like it could have all been one product, though. I don't understand what you mean by "an open source alternative."
[+] [-] nikolay|9 years ago|reply
For example, you can't add projects to a job; you can't assign skills to a project or a job. For people who did consulting, this is a must, but not available. There are many other issues, but those are, for me at least, the road blocks.
[+] [-] amyjess|9 years ago|reply
On my last job hunt, nearly every employer and job board accepted resumes in PDF.
For the most part, the only people who wanted Word were recruiters, and I'm done doing business with them. Every single job I've ever gotten has been the result of me directly applying, and all recruiters have ever done is waste my time and spam me.
[+] [-] thearn4|9 years ago|reply
I agree that this is still kind of an open problem, but unlikely to be a business opportunity in the making.
[+] [-] awalGarg|9 years ago|reply
I wrote https://github.com/awalGarg/cv-maker/ which generates the resume in markdown. From there, you can convert it with pandoc to basically whatever you want. It is not much polished yet, though.
[+] [-] mixmastamyk|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] basseq|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rat87|9 years ago|reply
I love json resume but last time I couldn't even find a good way to generate pdf's just html, much less doc.
standard template doesn't seem to be working.
[+] [-] trantor|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] tedmiston|9 years ago|reply
Developer Story does have a PDF export but it's very limited to including everything which is a bit heavy, and no UI customization right now.
I'd be more likely to explore a tool like CakeResume if they imported from an SO CV i.e., if the cost of adoption was reduced. I think this reflects the typical developer opinion on most resume generators.
I'm not saying SO has to be the standard, it could be a JSON schema with even more features, but we really need some standard.
[1]: http://stackoverflow.com/cv/taylor
[+] [-] gentleteblor|9 years ago|reply
That's the approach i'm taking with JobRudder [1]. You enter your "data" and we generate resumes, achievement reports, timelines etc. We're looking into updating LinkedIn, posting to twitter (for those who like that) and other integrations.
I'm happy more folks are thinking this way.
[1] https://jobrudder.com
[+] [-] hashhar|9 years ago|reply
Developer Story is a really good product but I haven't yet taken the time to create mine. I should go do it now.
[+] [-] awalGarg|9 years ago|reply
Otherwise looks nice, atleast in the images.
[+] [-] wingerlang|9 years ago|reply
On the topic of resume building though, while I haven't had the need for making one in a long time I have this idea I just want to throw out there.
Just make like an HTML page with every possible detail about your history. Then, in e.g. Chrome, you can easily hide the different sections/words that isn't related to the specific job you're applying for. Then print as PDF. Seems like it would be easy to maintain and "generate" the resumes per application.
[+] [-] WhitneyLand|9 years ago|reply
First, you could simply require the registration before allowing them to export so you still capture the data.
Secondly, I'm afraid the usability and slickness are so nice that you will lose more than gain by not letting people get a quick chance to see how good it feels.
Glad I got that off my chest. My opinion and $1.85 will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks, so fwiw.
[+] [-] darkhorn|9 years ago|reply
You can save it as XML if you want to update it later. You can email it as PDF or .docx file. And it supports many languages.
[+] [-] metaprinter|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ohstopitu|9 years ago|reply
I personally don't have it on my resume because I feel that it's un-necessary and a bit unprofessional. But I can see it's appeal (there have been too many instances where there's one person who does the phone interview and another the in person interview)
[+] [-] aarongolliver|9 years ago|reply
eg Germany: http://www.thelocal.de/jobs/article/47649
It's definitely considered strange in most of the USA.
[+] [-] SippinLean|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ameesdotme|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wccrawford|9 years ago|reply
You should probably do a better job of calling out the things people expect to put on a resume, instead of hiding them under generic non-resume terms.
[+] [-] agounaris|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jenskanis|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trantor|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emirozer|9 years ago|reply
Farsighted Note: I am aware of PDF export feature, but its very ugly..
[+] [-] WhitneyLand|9 years ago|reply
I like the idea. Your site looks great - clean and attractive. The animations are enticing.
[+] [-] trantor|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trantor|9 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] gentleteblor|9 years ago|reply
I've spent a lot of time exploring and building career tools [1], and my observation so far has been that "formatting and style" isn't the main problem with resumes. Seem to me that most people struggle with "what" to put in a resume and "how" (phrasing, concreteness etc) to put it.
Good luck and congrats on launching.
[1] https://jobrudder.com
[+] [-] pklausler|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ohstopitu|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ozaark|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 4rtemis|9 years ago|reply
My website is generated with a static website builder, hugo, and uses wkhtml to generate an optional pdf. It just pulls a subset of what I want to display from the exhaustive, version controlled json file. My entire website pulls contact information, name, location, social media profiles etc information from that one json file. It separates content and presentation and I keep it all in one file. If I wanted two versions of the information, I just change the html document and what I pull.
[+] [-] dinibal|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brosirmandude|9 years ago|reply
[+] [-] trantor|9 years ago|reply