Pregnancy alters woman's brain 'for at least two years'

[kaitai]

It's unfortunate that the link that made the front page here is to the BBC article rather than the NYTimes article [1] on the same study, as the NYTimes article much more clearly addresses a number of the points brought up by commenters here today. The NYTimes article briefly mentions other non-pregnancy related studies on the "pruning" of grey matter. One place to get a bunch of citations for studies on synaptic pruning is in the lit review of [2], since the NYTimes article itself doesn't have a citation for synaptic pruning research in adolescents. However, the NYTimes article does link to [3], an article about spontaneous theory of mind and synaptic density in 18-26 year olds. It looks at a this group of people not by age but by performance on theory of mind tasks, examining the relationship with structural MRI data from the participants. This sheds some light on efficiency and good performance on theory of mind tasks and the neuroanatomy of a person. I think for most HNers taking out thinking about pregnancy and looking at this study first would be useful in understanding the results -- we've all got a lot of preconceived notions about the effects of pregnancy that make it hard to think about the results of the study rationally.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/19/health/pregnancy-brain-cha... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2475802/ [3] https://scan.oxfordjournals.org/content/10/3/327.abstract

[dsacco]

Thanks for making this point, especially with regards to pregnancy being a loaded discussion topic.

In the original study I found it very interesting that the authors drew parallels between the "maturation" of a new mother's brain (grey matter reductions) and the brains of adolescents undergoing pregnancy. If this study replicates, I would love to see followup studies exploring measures of narcissism, time management, executive functioning and facial recognition over time in women shortly before, during and after pregnancy (and perhaps even two years afterwards). These are all areas in which adolescents experience significant variations in functioning when compared to the general population, and there could be a lot of fertile ground here.

One other thought that strikes me is how the grey matter alterations could potentially impact teenage mothers. If the mother's brain has not left adolescence by the time she experiences pregnancy, it would be interesting to see how the grey matter alterations differ, considering the authors' comparison.

[radicalbyte]

Anecdotally I can say it has a large effect on the male brain too. The lack of sleep and time changes you. You get ruthless against time stealers and start seeing 6 hours as a nice long sleep.

Full disclosure : I've had about 8hr sleep in 3 days,two sick kids...

[akud]

People underestimate the effect of extreme sleep deprivation. For the first three months of my daughter's life, we didn't sleep for more than two hours at a time. The effect was profound - I was having auditory hallucinations, was paranoid, etc. It was only after she started sleeping through the night that I understood it was due to the lack of sleep.

[clinta]

FTA: And they compared these women's brains with those of 19 first-time fathers, 17 men without children and 20 women who had never given birth.

So the findings seem to be unique to mothers.

[dsacco]

Your lifestyle might change because you have a baby, but (within the scope of this research) pregnancy does not have an effect on the male brain.

[majkinetor]

That is irrelevant as it is consequence of life style change. Many mothers do not change lifestyle.

This however makes me think how much of the woman change is due to the life style change which is mandatory in given situation for majority of mothers and how much is programmed.

[quickben]

Yep, 5 month old here, teething. Short term memory is impacted.

[kchoudhu]

I have a pretty relaxed attitude towards sick kids: if they're in real distress they'll yell and wake me up.

My wife thinks I'm a monster.

[Jemmeh]

Women would of course also suffer from the lack of sleep, so I don't understand your point.

[nimchimpsky]

I'm in the same boat.

But that just sounds like being grouchy through lack of sleep, and perhaps not actual structural changes to your brain.

[6DM]

I never thought a reduction could result in an improvement. The brain is so fascinating!

"The researchers found "substantial" reductions in the volume of grey matter in the brains of first-time mothers. The grey matter changes occurred in areas of the brain involved in social interactions used for attributing thoughts and feelings to other people - known as "theory-of-mind" tasks. The researchers thought this would give new mothers an advantage in various ways - help them recognise the needs of their child, be more aware of potential social threats and become more attached to their baby."

[joncrocks]

I'd be slightly careful here about separating out the findings from the speculation.

The study[1] looked at what changed in the women's brains, the regions in which it changed, and then tested to see which areas 'lit up' when viewing a picture of their own child vs. other children. In addition measurements were taken over time to see how permanent the changes were.

The reasons for change and the actual/quantitative impact of the changes would have to come from another study. While what the "researchers thought" is interesting, it's not supported by any evidence, i.e. no measurements were taken to see if any of the suggested improvements were present.

[1] http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nn.44...

[Ensorceled]

Seems logical: a temporary "this isn't the time to think about the needs of your extended family" signal lasting just up until the point the kid can toddle around would be survival enhancer.

[danielam]

Perhaps specialization of those regions in a way that aids (that stage of) motherhood in some way?

[ingamx77]

I had the baby while at university, and it's true. While I was always brilliant in math and physics, I couldn't do simple things anymore. That was very frustrating. Thanks god the physics professor was very forgiving as he noticed the change

[erroneousfunk]

It was probably more about sleep deprivation, chronic stress, and immediate reprioritization in your life, more than anything. It's hard to focus on learning new tasks when you're tired, and you're forced to confront a million new things at home.

The study just said that, in small areas of the brain, gray matter was reduced, and they theorized that this specialization helped a new mother recognize her infant and its needs. Nothing to do with math and physics.

[kaybe]

Did it revert, and after what time if yes?

[keyle]

We had our first born 7 months ago. I can tell you baby brain is real :)

My wife, herself, recognise she became more centered around the baby, less forgiving and more selfish. Also less patience.

But hey I'm not complaining, I love our little man. Nature is wonderful.

[nklyn]

Birth control pills boost the same hormones, I wonder if they would have similar affects on the brain.

[actuallyalys]

Pregnancy raises at least estrogen and progesterone to something like ten times the usual menstrual cycle peak, so I doubt the effect size is comparable. Also, I think pregnancy affects a broad range of hormones, not just the handful in birth control.

[Kroniker]

Underrated comment, I would be very interested in a study on this.

[bogrollben]

Whereas the child itself alters the brain for the rest of your life.

[setq]

Three children in, yes definitely.

[novia]

Brain differences between the sexes are real, but we should interpret them with caution.

[Ensorceled]

There is very little interpretation in this article and none about the differences, just a note that men's brains are not structurally changed.

Is this a pre-emptive warning to fellow commentators?

[mibbiting]

Otherwise we'll be called sexist?

[kaitai]

Note that this study shows significant and multi-year structural changes between women who have experienced pregnancy and birth and women who did not conceive or give birth during the same time period. This is not a study that is primarily about differences between the sexes.

[SamReidHughes]

Why? What's the danger here, that you'll be wrong? If you interpret the differences "with caution" are you more or less likely to interpret them correctly?

[nimchimpsky]

A more interesting question is where do they originate, imo.

Nature or nurture.

[lostlogin]

Does the percentage of mothers who were getting fertility treatment make this actually representative? The pain and suffering that those who struggle to have children followed (presumably!) by happiness when they have a child must have some effect?

The average age of the participants also seems high to me, but a brief search for an average age for having a first child put this study cohort only slightly over that - surprising to me at least.

[DanBC]

> followed (presumably!) by happiness

Baby blues and postnatal depression are common, even among people who've been through fertility treatment. Indeed, those people may find it harder to seek help because of the assumptions that they must be happy after all that struggle.

(Also, about 1 in 10 men have postnatal depression.)

[nommm-nommm]

>And they compared these women's brains with those of 19 first-time fathers, 17 men without children and 20 women who had never given birth.

Incomplete control group. They should have included first time adoptive mothers and women who gave their baby up for adoption.

Also extremely small sample size.

EDIT: It would have also been very relevant to include a sample of lesbian parents of the same child where one parent gave birth and one didn't.

[xkcd-sucks]

It's a bit surprising that a Nature Neuro paper didn't have more control groups. But on the other hand, it's trickier to get ahold of first time adoptive mothers etc. And on the third hand, there's always somebody requesting increasingly specific control groups and one just has to stop and publish at some point.

[partiallypro]

I always wonder about claims like this from both sides. I see people claiming pregnancy alters a woman's brain, miscarriages can cause postpartum depression, but then see claims that abortions do not effect the brain at all. The third I find hard to believe given the first two. And I know this is a touchy topic, but I am pro-choice yet find it a bit baffling that we ignore some of the science behind its effects on the brain and moods. Hormones are very powerful. If you are on either side of that fence, I think we can all agree that we want the woman to be well. I feel like writing off effects for political reasons does nothing but damage women (I think this is more U.S. than other countries.) Especially if we consider some women getting abortions are doing so for socio-economic reasons. If their brains are effected (they become depressed,) that is hurting their social standing even more. If we can identify that as a possible effect, then we can treat them.

A bit of a tangent, but it's something reading this prompted me to rant about.

[randyrand]

It permanently altered my brain for sure and I'm a father. It altered my thoughts. The things I care about. The way I act. There is no going back.

[modzu]

another bbc link at the bottom of the article: "scientists say baby brain doesn't exist" lol

such bad reporting. i digress. btw, small sample size too -- only 25 women?

[wcummings]

In what way is this "on topic"?

[throwaway7645]

My wife and I both took our Professional Engineering Exams (8 hour test that is brutally hard) and she was 6 mo pregnant and still passed while I failed. I really feel dumb now.

[johnlbevan2]

She was thinking for 2 though ;)

[erroneousfunk]

How does this research imply that there's any effect on a pregnant woman/new mother's ability to take a PE exam? The study talks about a gray matter reduction in small areas of the brain associated with social interaction. Based on other experiments, they further theorized that this may be a tool to help the mother quickly recognize her infant and assess its needs. Has nothing to do with engineering...

[LeoDox]

I am genuinely not trolling, just curious coz I'm new here: what does this have to do with software? Or does HackerNews cover more than just software? Genuine question, not rhetorical